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God's Reach Vs The Infected


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Ok..as I understand it..the God's Reach campaigns will be a three sided factional war of Order vs Balance vs Chaos with followers of the 4 gods of each faction making up those same factions. Obviously, with 12 gods and 12 archetypes and each God having a "champion" fighting on their behalf...we end up with each faction having 4 archetypes battling to establish supremacy over the others. Ok...makes sense..especially when you look at the different descriptions of the archetypes...there are three ranged DPS...Stalker, Confessor and Frostweaver...which will likely be in Balance, Order and Chaos respectively. Each faction will get a tank...each will get a support...balance won't be easy per se...but is certainly achievable. Ok..gotcha.

 

Ok...so here's my question...how the hell can this work in "The Infected" campaigns? All the forgemaster support toons fighting all the ranged DPS Confessors? Really? You can only group with exactly your same archetypes? I know all us hardcore pvpers are going to ignore everything but the Dregs anyway....but I'm trying to understand the logic of these other options...are they even viable or remotely competitive? Am I missing something?

Edited by Gradishar
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You choose an archetype and a god independently from each other.

We don't even know if you actually get to choose the god you will be fighting for in The Infected (it might be random / your guilds choice / predetermined at character selection / different each campaign).

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I'm actually thinking the God's Reach campaigns might be best for guildless players. Down further where it's guild dominated Neutral/Guildless players are likely to get shunned like they were in Shadowbane. Can't trust that #%#^ without a guild tag.

 

As someone who's avoiding making any guild commitments before jumping in, it's where I'll probably be.

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I am finding it hard to not just rail on Gradishar... his four posts on the main page of general discussion currently are all just long-winded, uninformed drivel.

 

That said, Angier hooked you up with the right answer.

 

For all future inquiries, we have a Community Ask and Answer forum, and also a Suggestions forum for all pleas and requests. Please use them!

Edited by Adall
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What I found helpful was to read the FAQ, the Reddit AMA, the Twitter QnA, then listen to all the podcasts from Crowns and Crows, as well as Gold and Glory, to get caught up. There are still a lot of unknowns, of course.

Edited by Poposhka
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I am finding it hard to not just rail on Gradishar... his four posts on the main page of general discussion currently are all just long-winded, uninformed drivel.

 

That said, Angier hooked you up with the right answer.

 

For all future inquiries, we have a Community Ask and Answer forum, and also a Suggestions forum for all pleas and requests. Please use them!

 

 

 

This.  Seeing a half-dozen ellipses in every paragraph drives me crazy.  That being said, at least this post actually has paragraphs.  

Edited by Abel
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I've searched high and low for the "option to chose gods" rather than an assignment based upon archetype. I have serious doubts that this is true...that the Stalkers...who are all Elken...can actually worship a god other than D'Orion. I have serious doubts that the Order vs Balance vs Chaos factions allow Champions, Rangers and Confessors to be in all three factions. However...if this has been said in an interview, FAQ or post somewhere...please o' great and knowledgable forum warriors...please point it out.

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Ok..as I understand it..the God's Reach campaigns will be a three sided factional war of Order vs Balance vs Chaos with followers of the 4 gods of each faction making up those same factions. Obviously, with 12 gods and 12 archetypes and each God having a "champion" fighting on their behalf...we end up with each faction having 4 archetypes battling to establish supremacy over the others. Ok...makes sense..especially when you look at the different descriptions of the archetypes...there are three ranged DPS...Stalker, Confessor and Frostweaver...which will likely be in Balance, Order and Chaos respectively. Each faction will get a tank...each will get a support...balance won't be easy per se...but is certainly achievable. Ok..gotcha.

 

Ok...so here's my question...how the hell can this work in "The Infected" campaigns? All the forgemaster support toons fighting all the ranged DPS Confessors? Really? You can only group with exactly your same archetypes? I know all us hardcore pvpers are going to ignore everything but the Dregs anyway....but I'm trying to understand the logic of these other options...are they even viable or remotely competitive? Am I missing something?

Wait till you have more information before being concerned with your interpretation of what's been released. For now I would just ask the devs for clarification on differences between campaigns and how the gods intertwine with them and characters

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I've searched high and low for the "option to chose gods" rather than an assignment based upon archetype. I have serious doubts that this is true...that the Stalkers...who are all Elken...can actually worship a god other than D'Orion. I have serious doubts that the Order vs Balance vs Chaos factions allow Champions, Rangers and Confessors to be in all three factions. However...if this has been said in an interview, FAQ or post somewhere...please o' great and knowledgable forum warriors...please point it out.

It hasn't been said explicitly because it doesn't have to be. They aren't going to lock archetypes into factions as that would require far more time and money to balance out the archetypes. That is time and money they don't have.

 

Please take your wild speculation and try to apply some logic to it.

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Ok...so here's my question...how the hell can this work in "The Infected" campaigns? All the forgemaster support toons fighting all the ranged DPS Confessors? Really?

 

No, it doesn't sound like it would work, does it?  To me, that is a strong clue that your assumption that each god is served by just one archetype is wrong.

 

Do you have any basis for making this assumption?

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I've searched high and low for the "option to chose gods" rather than an assignment based upon archetype. I have serious doubts that this is true...that the Stalkers...who are all Elken...can actually worship a god other than D'Orion. I have serious doubts that the Order vs Balance vs Chaos factions allow Champions, Rangers and Confessors to be in all three factions. However...if this has been said in an interview, FAQ or post somewhere...please o' great and knowledgable forum warriors...please point it out.

So, your logical conclusion is that instead of the lowest determinator (you somehow have to choose who to fight for) you go with an arbitrary assumption?

 

Leonard Nimoy would be ashamed of your skills, youngling.

Edited by Angier
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Ah the joys of pre-Alpha speculation...

 

Where am I getting these assumptions? Why do I think we aren't given a choice of which god to worship? Well...there are a lot of clues to this actually....

 

1. JTodd's description of the War of the Gods includes a description of how each of the All-Father's children start warring for supremacy...but that they do that through "Champions" aka "Archetypes." These Archetypes are what the name implies...representations of the gods themselves. Stalker for D'Orion, Knight for Hero, etc.

 

2. There are 12 archetypes and there are 12 gods. Is this a coincidence? I think not. Do each of the gods seem to correspond to each of the archetypes? Well, clearly the D'Orion and Stalker connection seems obvious. Especially with the antlers on the crest..and that D'Orion is a god of Balance. Hero is a god of Order. He has the same eagle heraldry on his crest as the Knight does. Again, is that a coincidence? I seriously doubt it. 

 

3. Logic. For the religions to make any sense at all...the Archetypes have to be pre-ordained. Does the Confessor, and her attitude about the Mother Church, make any sense at all in worship of D'Orion? Or if able to worship any or all of the gods at their whim? Seriously? Or the Fae Assassin worshipping Kane? Or the the Ice Elvish Frostweaver worshipping the fire god Arkon? Seriously? That makes zero sense. 

 

4. Ease. Its much easier to set up 3 factions of Order/Balance/Chaos with 4 archetypes for each faction. You have 3 ranged DPS (Confessor, Stalker and Frostweaver) who I expect will all be in separate factions. You also spread out your tanks and support into each faction...and viola...you are ready to roll...at least for God's Reach.

 

Now...that all makes LOTS of sense when it comes to God's Reach...but the Infected? The logic breaks down. I don't see how you can make a 12 sided war work with Foregemasters standing on their own against Frostweavers. That means either that there is something else we don't know which can explain how that could work...or it was a neat idea the Devs considered which isn't really that neat once you put it into practice. Hence...the reason for my original post. How that hell can this work?

Edited by Gradishar
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Grad, you're flat wrong about both the conclusion you're drawing and some of the facts you're basing it on. Including the Myrmidon there are 13 archetypes, with more yet to come, so a 1 to 1 mapping is impossible. There are only 2 tank archetypes, not 3; likewise, only 2 support roles, so your 3-faction system is broken from the outset.

 

Deity and archetype are two independent choices. There's no question or room for uncertainty on this.

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Grad, you're flat wrong about both the conclusion you're drawing and some of the facts you're basing it on. Including the Myrmidon there are 13 archetypes, with more yet to come, so a 1 to 1 mapping is impossible. There are only 2 tank archetypes, not 3; likewise, only 2 support roles, so your 3-faction system is broken from the outset.

 

Deity and archetype are two independent choices. There's no question or room for uncertainty on this.

 

 

Such certainty Jihan...I love it! Of course...at the time of the announcement of the gods...there were only 12 Archetypes right? The 13th wasn't added until later during Kickstarter right? And you are correct...in the descriptions of the Archetypes...there are 3 that are described as Ranged DPS (Confessor, Stalker and Frostweaver). There are 2 that are described as support (Forgemaster and Druid). There are 2 that are described as Tank (Knight and Templar). There are 2 described as Melee DPS (Legionnaire and Champion). Finally, there are 3 that described as Specialist (Ranger, Assassin and Duelist). You believe that because there aren't exactly 3 support and 3 Melee DPS, then Frostweavers and Stalkers will both be allowed to worship the fire god Arkon? Really? Hmmm...interesting. Archetypes fighting the war of the gods on behalf of their respective gods...really means that Confessors, Frostweavers and Assassins are fighting for D'Orion, the Antlered God of Balance. Really? I guess only time will tell as to which of us are correct. I sincerely do not believe that they would have created this system to allow Confessors and their clear religious dogma to worship a god with antlers who feasts on the hearts of his enemies...but I guess we will see...

Edited by Gradishar
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There never, ever was ANYWHERE given the statement, that the champions are in any way more affiliated to one god or the other based on their archetype. That is complete conjecture and the root cause of your fallacy.

 

The same goes for your assumption that the Champions actually 'worship' the gods. With exception of the confessor, the druid and the forgemaster none of their background story suggest ANY inclination towards being religious at all.

Edited by Angier
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I am finding it hard to not just rail on Gradishar... his four posts on the main page of general discussion currently are all just long-winded, uninformed drivel.

 

That said, Angier hooked you up with the right answer.

 

For all future inquiries, we have a Community Ask and Answer forum, and also a Suggestions forum for all pleas and requests. Please use them!

I'm beginning to question the depth of his research.

 

1. There are 13 archetypes and still only 12 gods.

2. Logic and Religion... Those don't often go together, I'd not try to draw that line here either.

3. Factions are not going to be restricted to Archetype.

4. Use paragraphs please, it would significantly help.

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They have 13 archetypes right now and intend on more (your killing my alt-itus with this btw)

Each archetype has 3 professions (maybe more but right now 3. My alt-itus weeps)

There has been no statement as to how this will divvy up in the 9-12 faction play they have in infected (they have not finalized the number of gods yet as they stated in an interview)

Everyone assumes that they will get to choose a faction however you are correct, it has not been implicitly stated yet how that will go only that it "follows the nerritive."

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4. Use paragraphs please, it would significantly help.

 

While I did use paragraphs multiple times in this thread...at this point...I doubt I'll ever use another paragraph break on these boards again. I truly thought I had experienced the worst of whinny board warrioring on the old Ubisoft SB forums...but this takes the cake.   If my run on sentences offend you sir...please disregard them in their entirety. 

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@Gradishar : I guess that Roleplay speaking you're right, some achetypes shoudln't fight for some gods. But the game main focus isn't Roleplay (even If I'm planning to Roleplay and some others people too), it's PvP. So I don't think they'll lock you in faction for Roleplay reasons.

 

Also, they states that they didn't aimed to balance everything, and having your 4/4/4 archetypes balance to compete against each other would probably be a nightmare.

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4. Ease. Its much easier to set up 3 factions of Order/Balance/Chaos with 4 archetypes for each faction. You have 3 ranged DPS (Confessor, Stalker and Frostweaver) who I expect will all be in separate factions. You also spread out your tanks and support into each faction...and viola...you are ready to roll...at least for God's Reach.

 

Easier than what?  

 

Wouldn't it be easiest to balance if all factions had access to all archetypes?  Then you never have to worry about "they have the better tank than we do" because everyone has access to all the archetypes.

 

Splitting them up in the way you suggest would make it harder to balance the factions, not easier.

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