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newface

Length of fights

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ive always loved games where i can 1 shot kill people or just....deal a ridiculous amount of damage.  Both this and super meaty things that take forever to kill are going to be in this game.  Im not a dev or anything at all, i know nothing of the game....but i can say this is for sure.


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I will let it go after this, since you've asked. But are you basing your opinion only on SCA? Because I'm basing mine on hundreds of years old training manuals and weapons trainers and re-creators that have studied them.

And I'm finally off work haha.

Please provide the sources that you're basing this info off of. Because the history of war itself up until the most recent century never really resulted in mass casualties until fire arms were used. Battles would wage on for days with neither side losing too many people. The most bloody fighting was often against very lightly armored militia and peasants.

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I've interviewed several re-creators and scholars of middle age combat. the guy who runs http://www.thearma.org/ is first on the list. The battle might run on for days, but for many of its participants it lasted minutes.

 

define "many"

 

by your very statement, the percentage can't have been too large, or the battle would have ended

 

and i think that's the crux of the point here....yes, there are times in real combat, you can get "lucky" and have a guy fall on his own bullet or some such

 

but this ain't "real life"...not even close

 

magic, ya know?

 

no one likes to be one shot, and imo a Player should always have some chance to try and react as best as they are able, the first shot should be an advantage...but not the entirety of the Fight

 

yor mileage may vary...

 

Excelsior!


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Oh god no, not SCA. I know real re-enactors. And, no. In real battle, each individual interaction is over in seconds. A couple hits, and one of you is either dead or you've moved on.

 

 

Let's agree to disagree. Because that's not how it happens. It may seem like seconds but the average engagement is upwards of 30 to 40 seconds from 1 opponent to another when you're shoulder to shoulder with a colleague trying to push forward. Everyone's mobility and range of attack is quite limited.

 

Unless someone is just terrible. Which does happen.

Actually, outside of peasants with pitchforks, my guess is that scrums advanced into one on ones that became more protracted as those with skill advanced in the mortal round robins.

 

 You can't base that on fat asses who larp on the 3rd Monday of every other month.

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All of this. First they would send out waves of untrained peasant levies. They would slaughter each other in a most disorganized way, Occasional flights by bowmen and sorties by armed knights would slaughter more peasants. These charges would sometimes include a horse going down, a random arrow or a lucky stab by a peasant, ignominiously killing a professional. By day three or so you might see armed combat among professionals, unless the peasant melee was decisive before then. These fights, especially during the heavy armor period, often ran on until exhaustion defeated one or the other, not damage. But, statistically speaking, those were rarities when you count the hundreds dead in the peasant melees.

 

I see most mmo players as peasant conscripts. They fight with zeal if not skill and die in droves. The pros are obvious and terrifyingly effective, as they were back then, but they could still be felled by an amateur on occasion.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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ive always loved games where i can 1 shot kill people or just....deal a ridiculous amount of damage.  Both this and super meaty things that take forever to kill are going to be in this game.  Im not a dev or anything at all, i know nothing of the game....but i can say this is for sure.

 

I really hope there is no 1 shotting abilities / mega glass cannon I kill or die in 2 shots characters. There is nothing wrong with glass cannons but in my own little perfect world for me, I like tactics and choices over reflex and the 'I've hit you first, I win' type of games.

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I really hope there is no 1 shotting abilities / mega glass cannon I kill or die in 2 shots characters. There is nothing wrong with glass cannons but in my own little perfect world for me, I like tactics and choices over reflex and the 'I've hit you first, I win' type of games.

 

There are benefits and consequences for having such characters incorporated in your group make-up. Also, if character customization is a deep and complex as what everyone seems to want, then anyone should be able to create any type of character they wish. Glass cannons, tanks, high resist, high defense, gymnast with a moose knuckle, high HP, low HP or whatever.

Edited by aggravated

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There benefits and consequences for having such characters incorporated in your group make-up. Also, if character customization is a deep and complex as what everyone seems to want, then anyone should be able to create any type of character they wish. Glass cannons, tanks, high resist, high defense, gymnsat with a moose knuckle, high HP, low HP or whatever.

 

I want a glass cannon class to exist but there is a huge different between a glass cannon class and a 2 shots fight. Glass cannon simply means someone who favors ultra high damage over survivability. Let's pretend an average 1on1 fight last up to 5 minutes between 2 average defense / offense characters. A glass cannon against an average average character could go down to say 3 minutes and 2 glass cannons going at it down to 2 minutes.

 

This is why my first question was more aimed toward 'what would you prefer in terms of length of battles' and not: Would you want a glass cannon class to exist... I think we all agree that the more variety there is in classes and play style, the more entertaining games usually are. What is your opinion? Based on your comment, feels like you would agree with a glass cannon existing but do you want to see it 2shot things and get 2 shotted?

Edited by newface

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I would much prefer if 1v1 and sma

 

I want a glass cannon class to exist but there is a huge different between a glass cannon class and a 2 shots fight. Glass cannon simply means someone who favors ultra high damage over survivability. Let's pretend an average 1on1 fight last up to 5 minutes between 2 average defense / offense characters. A glass cannon against an average average character could go down to say 3 minutes and 2 glass cannons going at it down to 2 minutes.

 

This is why my first question was more aimed toward 'what would you prefer in terms of length of battles' and not: Would you want a glass cannon class to exist... I think we all agree that the more variety there is in classes and play style, the more entertaining games usually are. What is your opinion? Based on your comment, feels like you would agree with a glass cannon existing but do you want to see it 2shot things and get 2 shotted?

 

I would prefer 1v1 fights that were 1:30 and less. 5v5 around 2:00 and less. 10v10 (from getting curb stomped to an intense fight where only a couple survive) being from 2:30-5:00 mark. All of those in minutes, of course. Whether or not your character gets 2-shotted will depend on which class is attacking you. The hard counter to a glass cannon (with high defense, but little to no physical resists) being a high ATR melee character with an expose power (you get the jist) might get taken down in a few shots. In SB, it was all about execution. If you could slip a glass cannon into a GvG battle and remain untouched, you had the opportunity to take down many characters on your own. On the other hand, if you were to get targeted you were basically F*****.

 

Risk vs. reward system increases the depth of group make-up, playability, style and strategy.

 

At the same time, you could just not play that type of character. It should be up to the player, but the option should be present.

 

Just my .02.  

Edited by aggravated

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Shadowbane was fun because you could make a 4k HP OP health regen "Glass Cannon".  Was it extemely viable or actually OP? No, but it was fun.


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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Shadowbane was fun because you could make a 4k HP OP health regen "Glass Cannon".  Was it extemely viable or actually OP? No, but it was fun.

 

hummm... my glass cannons were more in the form of 2700HP 200-1300 lightning double expose elf furies with archmage activated and a CC staff (low ATR)... 4K HP is actually a lot of HPs for most casters in SB... a 170 con / 140 int human druid with TAN was sitting at 3500HP with double boons...

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The problem with high HP and low dmg is the fighting will turn into WoW Arenas - 45 mins of 3v3 is just stupid.  Fights will most likely take long as the beginning as everyone figures out how to optimize their dmg output, then fights will gradually speed up.


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The problem with high HP and low dmg is the fighting will turn into WoW Arenas - 45 mins of 3v3 is just stupid.  Fights will most likely take long as the beginning as everyone figures out how to optimize their dmg output, then fights will gradually speed up.

 

ummmm lern2focusfire?

 

Excelsior!


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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I haven't even seen this topic broached yet, but +1 for the no downstate or mid-fight 2 second revivals etc.  If there are revivals in this game, I hope it's properly balanced by cast time, cooldown, or needing to be out of combat to make them hard to pull off.

 

That whole "downed state" crap starting to creep into games is garbage.  IMO it's to make the players that keep getting bodied stick around longer...


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Yea def how dumb is it plus it only hurts small groups. I used to fight 8 vs 20+ in gw2 and just because 1 of our guys died all the sudden 15 enemies instantly rally all around us and we wipe. Its a dumb mechanic. Rezzing should take a long time and i would even argue should be done out of combat


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Yea def how dumb is it plus it only hurts small groups. I used to fight 8 vs 20+ in gw2 and just because 1 of our guys died all the sudden 15 enemies instantly rally all around us and we wipe. Its a dumb mechanic. Rezzing should take a long time and i would even argue should be done out of combat

 

I am biased, but I prefer the respawn process in Shadowbane. You die, click "Respawn", you're ported back to the town you were bound to (not a safe zone unless you were pledged to the safe zone) and could repair your gear, port to another town and/or use restoration potions etc...

 

When you died you had a "Death Shroud" status applied. A healer character could rez you and remove this status, but if this didn't happen, you could not cast spells etc.

 

Getting a charcter back to battle took good timing, but it was no wear near as easy or fast as clicking a button and someone was right back in the fight.

 

I'll vote for the former in this regard.

 

I prefer fights that are quick paced and fairly short in duration for the fact that if I only have a couple hours to play, I want to have the most exposure to PvP as I possibly can. Fighting a GvG fight for anymore than a few minutes makes me want to go jump off of a bridge lol. Unless of course, its a siege and then we are fighting in the same field over and over, but we're fighting many many times. Not one long drawn out fight. The majority of people will surely be bored to death.

Edited by aggravated

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