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StormShadow

Raph Koster's On Patch 9 And Jedi System

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Was going to post this here. Its really tragic what ended up happening. I remember the rumors about unlocking jedi was actually similar to what original system he mentioned. And when it was out that its just grind skills. Everything was different almost overnight. Suddenly afk macros are EVERYWHERE. So sad.

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I actually gained a lot of respect reading it though. Between him and Tod confession earlier. The dev team weren't foolish or blind. They were just put in an untenable situation and tried to make it work add best as possible. And the crazy part is they succeeded even if only for a while.

 

It's crazy to wonder what might have happened if they had been given time or not had their hands forced. Or even if the profession guy hadn't quit. I'm glad my suspicion that some trees seemed artificially inflated while others felt compressed was actually true.

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It's interesting to see the 'how-the-sausage-is-made' in MMO's. And Raph's statement about how, while we loved what we ended up getting, it was no where near as good as he had planned it to be? Damnit, Raph. You can't just say something like that and walk away. MAKE THAT GAME!!


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Raph's blog is really a great trove of information...it's pretty amazing to read through all of his insights on game development and experiences that he's shared over the years.

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It's interesting to see the 'how-the-sausage-is-made' in MMO's. And Raph's statement about how, while we loved what we ended up getting, it was no where near as good as he had planned it to be? Damnit, Raph. You can't just say something like that and walk away. MAKE THAT GAME!!

 

Somehow knowing things how they should be making them worse. :) It was with 'World of Darkness Online'. In this case makes wonder and wish that I saw those surprise professions.


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Of all the interesting things in that post, and other bits Raph has said, one thing really stood out to me.

 

Star Wars Galaxies was intended to be a skill web, not a skill tree, game.

 

He mentioned how there were many additional professions planned, and how all of the professions were intended to be much smaller in scale. That jives with what I remember of beta - professions like Farmer and Miner that I heard about, and how I was confused when launch came, and we had a handful of professions that were VERY grind-y.

 

Raph mentioned how some professions were intended to be accidentally discovered by mastering certain skill combinations. This further supports the skill web idea.

 

Sadly, no MMO has ever attempted a skill web system. The game that comes closest is not even an MMO, but a Roguelike - Path of Exile.

 

Crowfall, despite Raph's involvement, will not be a skill web game. With that said... what would it be like, if it was? Would there be archetypes? Or would it be more like Everquest Next's proposed system of 40+ "collectible" classes?


Formerly Scin Karetyr, a native of Chilastra in Star Wars Galaxies

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Really enjoyed reading this. It really makes me hope for the best when they're making Crowfall out of their personal choices and vision that won't be forced to cut things so hastily on content or pressure and actually do what they love. SWG sounded like a mess D:

 

Man it's infuriating that marketers who think they really know people don't at all. You can't earn cult-status by dishing up common place stuff to appease the mindless mass and shortcut your way to their wallet, you really have to go for the niche.

 

Of all the interesting things in that post, and other bits Raph has said, one thing really stood out to me.

 

Star Wars Galaxies was intended to be a skill web, not a skill tree, game.

 

He mentioned how there were many additional professions planned, and how all of the professions were intended to be much smaller in scale. That jives with what I remember of beta - professions like Farmer and Miner that I heard about, and how I was confused when launch came, and we had a handful of professions that were VERY grind-y.

 

Raph mentioned how some professions were intended to be accidentally discovered by mastering certain skill combinations. This further supports the skill web idea.

 

Sadly, no MMO has ever attempted a skill web system. The game that comes closest is not even an MMO, but a Roguelike - Path of Exile.

 

Crowfall, despite Raph's involvement, will not be a skill web game. With that said... what would it be like, if it was? Would there be archetypes? Or would it be more like Everquest Next's proposed system of 40+ "collectible" classes?

 

Yea the problem with skill tree is in the information age, even if you accidentally find something, people will record it into a wiki and so everyone else will be forced to do the same song and dance loop to get it unlocked. Very saddening and different from the original intent.

 

The good thing about the skill tree is people do what they want to do, just sounds unfortunate that the jedi hypetrain got to the best of things. This kind of thing is pretty indicative of the past 10 years literally, people running on treadmills, achievement points, all that jazz that keeps people on the rails instead of just letting them do whatever they want. It's just such a damning psychology to have to endure, totally changed the atmosphere of what it meant to have an identity with skills.

 

I was maybe only in middle school when SWG came out, I remember looking at the box and wanting to play it, but I never had a powerful enough PC. It was still running on Windows 98 haha. I guess I didn't really miss out especially when the potential for a bigger scale of things had been squandered by the narrow aspect of marketing for a cash grab.

 

"The genie was out of the bottle, though: Jedi was a thing for grinders and achievement-mad powergamers, and a little quest chain was never going to stop them. They were everywhere."

 

Wow I feel so depressed now. I can only hope Crowfall delivers to let people do what they want to do without the treadmill and hoops. Wouldn't the archetypes, disciplines and archetype professions be somewhat of a skill web that's sort of chopped up or no?

Edited by Lastboy

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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LastBoy, even though you're probably ten years my junior, I agree completely.

 

I remember the days when I scoffed at Windows Vista, believing (correctly, as it turns out) that Windows Vista was a pile of garbage compared to Windows 98. Star Wars: Galaxies just ran better on W98SE.

 

I also remember hoping that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes would turn out to be the successor to SWG that I longed for.

 

Wow, how that turned out.


Formerly Scin Karetyr, a native of Chilastra in Star Wars Galaxies

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Sadly, no MMO has ever attempted a skill web system. The game that comes closest is not even an MMO, but a Roguelike - Path of Exile.

 

Totally with you. Their original approach sounds like a treat. As for PoE they have skillweb, alright. But nothing is hidden. 

 

Yea the problem with skill tree is in the information age, even if you accidentally find something, people will record it into a wiki and so everyone else will be forced to do the same song and dance loop to get it unlocked. Very saddening and different from the original intent.

 

Hmm. Those who use guides use them. I wouldn't, play just for fun. Thing is reactive class system is great in it's ingenuity. Rather then choosing prestige class you achieve one by doing something. Of course it will be eventually all mapped out, so what? Still good.

 

 

I also remember hoping that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes would turn out to be the successor to SWG that I longed for.

 

Wow, how that turned out.

 

:D :D :D Yeah, that was some real miss. Game has that great original Everquesty vibe, but... 'Wow, how that turned out.' Exactly.


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Ditto on the old.

 

And if Jedi had been a "random" unlock generated per player? I might not even have been angry about there being Jedi running around. That would have been awesome. Plus the skill web? Wow. What might have been.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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It's always the brass. Should I make it motto or something?

 

Raph Koster's on patch 9 and Jedi system.

 

Thanks for posting this rolan, it was a good read, and I'm not sure I would have seen it otherwise.

 

I passed the article on to some of my fellow SWG players last night, and we were discussing it. Even now SWG is able to stir the strongest feelings we've had for any game, both good and bad. All of this info coming out now, on what went down, and how, is starting to give me some sense of closure finally. Strange how a game can affect people like this, but I guess it's all part of the anomaly we all enjoyed that was SWG.

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Strange how a game can affect people like this, but I guess it's all part of the anomaly we all enjoyed that was SWG.

 

 

I remember all the broken bits with such fondness. Heading to C-net to get your buffs so you could wear your armor. Don't forget to tip the macro begging fat rodian. Running the corvette with my Big Game Hunters guild, the mobs shooting you from the other side of the map and three floors beneath you. Rezzing and continuing to run till the black bars made you hit the cantina.

 

Hunting Krayts with BGH and setting up our city right next to the Krayt Graveyard. Logging in and having a Krayt kill me in my house. The time our guild leader declared war on the Bounty Hunter Guild because their initials were close to ours. The time the nightsister spawned in my campsite and killed us all after a rancor hunt. She then took a hammer to all of our swoops.

 

It was all broken and we made the game. The players really were the driving force. Broken quests, broken mechanics, but the game was fun because of the screwball stuff we would do. I love and miss all the good times, I try not to think about the NGE.


OTG - http://www.oldtimersguild.com/

That grey just means I got creative.

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