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Astaroth

Anyone Here Not From An Established Clan?

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Haha man I swear we have the exact same game history, I've played all the ones you listed for a good chunk of time.. I have yet to find a guild that hasn't been spoiled by internal drama. All it takes is one person who is tired of the stability and they can bring it down easily. I'm definitely interested in joining one, but I don't subscribe to the drama. It will be interesting to see how guilds are different in this game, seeing as there is physical land management, item loss, etc. It will be a big leap from what most know.

 

In these sorts of situations, like in EVE Online, the game space operates by different rules, which in effect generates a very different community.

 

Something about losing what you earn makes humble a person, or at least kills the ego in you, or it makes for some awesome tears when you get verbal abuse swung in your direction when you caused someone's loss when they were silly enough to venture into the woods unprepared.  I see a lot of ego when I look around at guilds these days, all it takes is a humbling experience to make them fall apart - if drama doesn't get them first.

 

The 7 tenants of Hardcore MMOs:

  • Don't carry what you can't afford to lose. If you acquire stuff you can't afford to lose, get it somewhere safe fast, keep it secret, keep it safe.
  • NEVER talk in zone/area/local chat, never smack talk, never mouth off, never challenge people, never say anything unless you have a very good reason to or to be polite.
  • If you upset someone by any means - including denial to your guild, kicking from your guild, destroying their stuff and so on, expect reprisals in the 'you lose things department'.  The bigger the upset, the bigger the reprisals.
  • If you are a 'baddie' and abusive to people, expect reprisals for it.
  • If you're reactionary in the wrong way to ganks, griefs and nonconsensual PvP, it means you'll be more likely to be targeted again for it.
  • Respect is everything
  • People will kill your character, take your stuff and teabag your character's corpse... simply because they can and their given the chance to.  If you have an issue with that, you shouldn't play a hardcore MMO.  Also, you should do the same, also in most cases people expect you will and won't care if you do, just don't rub it in their faces, or they will take issue to it, for entirely different reasons, because you decided to be a bad sport, in which they will seek reprisals for it.

Simply put, so long as you're a good sport in your interactions with other people and you're polite, the community will not care what you do, even if you gank them.  So long as you understand that if someone ganks you and takes your stuff you should show the same courtesy.

Edited by Synast

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Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


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In these sorts of situations, like in EVE Online, the game space operates by different rules, which in effect generates a very different community.

 

Something about losing what you earn makes humble a person, or at least kills the ego in you, or it makes for some awesome tears when you get verbal abuse swung in your direction when you caused someone's loss when they were silly enough to venture into the woods unprepared. I see a lot of ego when I look around at guilds these days, all it takes is a humbling experience to make them fall apart - if drama doesn't get them first.

 

The 7 tenants of Hardcore MMOs:

  • Don't carry what you can't afford to lose. If you acquire stuff you can't afford to lose, get it somewhere safe fast, keep it secret, keep it safe.
  • NEVER talk in zone/area/local chat, never smack talk, never mouth off, never challenge people, never say anything unless you have a very good reason to or to be polite.
  • If you upset someone by any means - including denial to your guild, kicking from your guild, destroying their stuff and so on, expect reprisals in the 'you lose things department'. The bigger the upset, the bigger the reprisals.
  • If you are a 'baddie' and abusive to people, expect reprisals for it.
  • If you're reactionary in the wrong way to ganks, griefs and nonconsensual PvP, it means you'll be more likely to be targeted again for it.
  • Respect is everything
  • People will kill your character, take your stuff and teabag your character's corpse... simply because they can and their given the chance to. If you have an issue with that, you shouldn't play a hardcore MMO. Also, you should do the same, also in most cases people expect you will and won't care if you do, just don't rub it in their faces, or they will take issue to it, for entirely different reasons, because you decided to be a bad sport, in which they will seek reprisals for it.
Simply put, so long as you're a good sport in your interactions with other people and you're polite, the community will not care what you do, even if you gank them.

Great list. I especially enjoy the Lord of the rings reference. I think this game will most reflect EVE so I'm curious to see if our experience there will translate well. The only guilds in that I joined were social inn nature, simply talking while mining, etc.


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The petty drama is generated because people are bored. They're just sitting around in a static ghost world and the /dance function stopped being amusing.

 

I like good drama that doesn't involve having to polish your guild leader's knob constantly on unfounded entitlement. What did he do to earn his spot to be a great leader? Just pressed the form guild button at some registrar NPC.

 

Backstabbings, intrigue, conniving all make for good drama because they have an actual impact on the world and the environment and other players around them. They start to take notice and can react to it. That's pretty much compiled into emergent gameplay which is why EvE is so great on the big picture scale.

 

In a traditional MMO, you will NEVER EVER hear a guild member to a new recruit "Oh, if you need a kit to get started, go see Billy Moneybags, he's our guild treasurer and esteemed crafter. He'll hook you up like no other! Just don't owe him money, our previous guild members, well...rest in piece err I mean peace. Anyways! if you're feeling confident and you want to jump in, go see Willy Smashesthemdead, he's in charge of the war logistics and will put you in the right squad where you need to be. Just don't say anything about his face, he's a hairtrigger. Oh and you'll want to stay away from Jilly Burns-them-all, she likes to set people on fire generally, doesn't matter if you're a guild member. We use her as a wildcard."

 

It's always just

"Welcome to the guild."

"Hai xD what are you guys doing?"

"We're raiding right now, you're too low level. Go grind somewhere else for a bit then you can catch up to us."

"Oh okay, do you guys want some of this loot I found?"

"Na, our guild vault is full, just go level up fast."

 

There's already a disconnect there and you're only involved by some tag next to your name that's fluff. It does nothing to invoke a sense of contribution or belonging and you only learn of your guildmembers based on their dialogue quirks and not what they do, their roles or function in the world are just moot because everyone does the same stuff regardless. Uninspired right? It only lends to the high school tier cliquey drama stuff because if you're not in on the joke, then who are you?

Edited by Lastboy

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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Great list. I especially enjoy the Lord of the rings reference. I think this game will most reflect EVE so I'm curious to see if our experience there will translate well. The only guilds in that I joined were social inn nature, simply talking while mining, etc.

the reference to EVE was a "tagline"   Todd explains why it was used here http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5862-lets-change-the-slogan/?p=145736


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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The petty drama is generated because people are bored. They're just sitting around in a static ghost world and the /dance function stopped being amusing.

 

I like good drama that doesn't involve having to polish your guild leader's knob constantly on unfounded entitlement. What did he do to earn his spot to be a great leader? Just pressed the form guild button at some registrar NPC.

 

I agree, most "drama" in EVE Online and in fact many other hardcore MMOs is almost always Role-Playing related.  All the petty drama in EVE in low and null sec is completely RP related, I see people from corps who are at war with each other converse all the time and enjoy doing so, they go to war with each other only because their bored and the petty drama is stirred up purely to incite lust for a fight in their corps.  As for negative drama, I've only  ever seen it in high sec, in particular coming from people who get suicide ganked by CODE.  I haven't been ganked by code, ever, even when I mined, because they go after people who afk and you're you're silly enough to get caught by them, then it means you're just as bad as someone who went afk.  And it's usually the insulted industrialists who mine all day to manipulate the PLEX market and want to play for free for no risk of going into low and null or wormholes who get all nasty about it.  It's the same old story.  A lot of people think that having the ability to be 100% safe in EVE by sitting in an NPC corp in high sec to be lame.


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Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


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I agree, most "drama" in EVE Online and in fact many other hardcore MMOs is almost always Role-Playing related.  All the petty drama in EVE in low and null sec is completely RP related, I see people from corps who are at war with each other converse all the time and enjoy doing so, they go to war with each other only because their bored and the petty drama is stirred up purely to incite lust for a fight in their corps.  As for negative drama, I've only  ever seen it in high sec, in particular coming from people who get suicide ganked by CODE.  I haven't been ganked by code, ever, even when I mined, because they go after people who afk and you're you're silly enough to get caught by them, then it means you're just as bad as someone who went afk.  And it's usually the insulted industrialists who mine all day to manipulate the PLEX market and want to play for free for no risk of going into low and null or wormholes who get all nasty about it.  It's the same old story.  A lot of people think that having the ability to be 100% safe in EVE by sitting in an NPC corp in high sec to be lame.

 

Lol hi sec industrialists~

 

1428640920713.jpg

 

You mean multiboxers who only lost one of their Hulks and is having a hissy fit because it's not efficient enough for his spreadsheet quota anymore.

 

 

EvE is just such a weird middle ground of meta and in-game actions. I don't play anymore, but I did really enjoy the immersion it offered and it did champion players having a role in the world rather than removing that and giving it to the NPCs. Corps that were starting out always had an incentive to be friendly, but I remember the more serious ones had an API code that you had to submit. I'm curious to see if that would be possible for Crowfall, to have your characters have stat tracking to show your worth to potential hardcore guilds.

 

The other thing is sometimes guilds just don't work for people because you have to bear in mind, not everyone can use teamspeak. There are deaf/ hard of hearing people out there who rely on their eyesight, reflexes, and much greater awareness of their surrounding to make the cut.

 

There are so many other factors, but playing solo will be just as viable. I'm sure the smart solo players will come up with creative solutions to their playstyle. Does it mean you can't take on a large guild? No... not directly anyways. You can harass them constantly and loot their guild members in 1v1 ambushes or disrupt their economy where they have to issue a worldwide KoS on you. It only adds to the thrillseeker's lust and it gives people stuff to do, which means more emergent jobs, like trackers and bounty hunting.

(Funny enough, EvE's bounty hunting system is broken and that's largely due to it being system in place that is exploited and abused. Emergent bounty hunting on the other hand would be just fine, people put you on a payroll and if they stiff you, you can kill them or try to anyways. Would be nice to bring proof of kill somehow, the easiest way to do that is loot someone's gear with someone's nametag on it, but I can see how people can set up scams for that.)


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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Lol hi sec industrialists~

 

1428640920713.jpg

 

You mean multiboxers who only lost one of their Hulks and is having a hissy fit because it's not efficient enough for his spreadsheet quota anymore.

 

 

EvE is just such a weird middle ground of meta and in-game actions. I don't play anymore, but I did really enjoy the immersion it offered and it did champion players having a role in the world rather than removing that and giving it to the NPCs. Corps that were starting out always had an incentive to be friendly, but I remember the more serious ones had an API code that you had to submit. I'm curious to see if that would be possible for Crowfall, to have your characters have stat tracking to show your worth to potential hardcore guilds.

 

The other thing is sometimes guilds just don't work for people because you have to bear in mind, not everyone can use teamspeak. There are deaf/ hard of hearing people out there who rely on their eyesight, reflexes, and much greater awareness of their surrounding to make the cut.

 

There are so many other factors, but playing solo will be just as viable. I'm sure the smart solo players will come up with creative solutions to their playstyle. Does it mean you can't take on a large guild? No... not directly anyways. You can harass them constantly and loot their guild members in 1v1 ambushes or disrupt their economy where they have to issue a worldwide KoS on you. It only adds to the thrillseeker's lust and it gives people stuff to do, which means more emergent jobs, like trackers and bounty hunting.

(Funny enough, EvE's bounty hunting system is broken and that's largely due to it being system in place that is exploited and abused. Emergent bounty hunting on the other hand would be just fine, people put you on a payroll and if they stiff you, you can kill them or try to anyways. Would be nice to bring proof of kill somehow, the easiest way to do that is loot someone's gear with someone's nametag on it, but I can see how people can set up scams for that.)

Lulz to the hi sec nubs. But yea I am very excited by the emergent quests and professions that arise from players. I would love to be a well known caravan mercenary or something.

 

Still begs the question how much efficacy a solo player could have though. Will they be distracting like a wasp, or disruptive like a bomb?


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Lol hi sec industrialists~

 

1428640920713.jpg

 

You mean multiboxers who only lost one of their Hulks and is having a hissy fit because it's not efficient enough for his spreadsheet quota anymore.

 

 

EvE is just such a weird middle ground of meta and in-game actions. I don't play anymore, but I did really enjoy the immersion it offered and it did champion players having a role in the world rather than removing that and giving it to the NPCs. Corps that were starting out always had an incentive to be friendly, but I remember the more serious ones had an API code that you had to submit. I'm curious to see if that would be possible for Crowfall, to have your characters have stat tracking to show your worth to potential hardcore guilds.

 

The other thing is sometimes guilds just don't work for people because you have to bear in mind, not everyone can use teamspeak. There are deaf/ hard of hearing people out there who rely on their eyesight, reflexes, and much greater awareness of their surrounding to make the cut.

 

There are so many other factors, but playing solo will be just as viable. I'm sure the smart solo players will come up with creative solutions to their playstyle. Does it mean you can't take on a large guild? No... not directly anyways. You can harass them constantly and loot their guild members in 1v1 ambushes or disrupt their economy where they have to issue a worldwide KoS on you. It only adds to the thrillseeker's lust and it gives people stuff to do, which means more emergent jobs, like trackers and bounty hunting.

(Funny enough, EvE's bounty hunting system is broken and that's largely due to it being system in place that is exploited and abused. Emergent bounty hunting on the other hand would be just fine, people put you on a payroll and if they stiff you, you can kill them or try to anyways. Would be nice to bring proof of kill somehow, the easiest way to do that is loot someone's gear with someone's nametag on it, but I can see how people can set up scams for that.)

 

You must of played a long time ago then.  These days we have Killmails - so all kills and deaths are recorded in an official capacity, also we have war records where battles are recorded in an official capacity.  They also changed the bounty system so you get rewarded ISK based on the value of the ship and pod you destroy of a person with a bounty on their head.  Last week I was involved in a fleet roam who killed two separate pirates who were working together to gank a freighter in low sec.  They were both in battlecruisers, they also both had massive bounties on their heads, in the billions, we were a roaming fleet of 30 odd so people, between us we only got 2 million isk each for killing the guy a lot more than I got for any other player ship kills I ever got in the past, on top of having my sec status upgraded by 0.03.    These days people care more about killmails than they do about anything else, also there is a chance things get destroyed so you can't loot everything, which means actually getting good loot from a kill is rare, even more so in a roaming fleet.


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Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


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Lulz to the hi sec nubs. But yea I am very excited by the emergent quests and professions that arise from players. I would love to be a well known caravan mercenary or something.

 

Still begs the question how much efficacy a solo player could have though. Will they be distracting like a wasp, or disruptive like a bomb?

 

It would have to depend on the situation on hand. Do you want to rack up the bodycount or you do you want starve the miserable bastards of their precious resources? Typically, solo players could just wait for the best time to 1v1 or...a solo player could just as easily drop into the middle of a 1v1 fight as a third-party interest and shift the scales into his favor to choose his target.

 

People never fail to keep thinking in a linear pattern. You could pretty much jump into a chaotic war by 2 opposing forces as a third force and tip the scale that way. You could get invited into a powerful guild that doesn't keep track of its member, carry their banner and start slaughtering people in another parcel under that name and trick those people into thinking the guild you're associated with is declaring war. You then drop that guild name and take a step back at the glorious chain of events you've caused, bag of popcorn in hand.

 

This is a effective solo player in a nutshell.

yojimboex1.gif

 

 

@Synast: Isn't bounty hunting as a profession still worthless because of the low payout from the kill mail percentage? Time = Money and all that.

Edited by Lastboy

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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I feel like fps clans are an entirely different beast

In a sense they are.

 

You're not really scheduling unless you do tournaments, or clan scrimmages or stuff, and at that level you're never really as time-focused and oriented around regular game playing and scheduling people to game, as mmos.

 

Its still a good way to be social online though, and have fun with gaming.

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@Synast: Isn't bounty hunting as a profession still worthless because of the low payout from the kill mail percentage? Time = Money and all that.

 

 

Pretty much yes, still doesn't mean people won't pay you for the other form of Bounty Hunting, which is paying someone a set amount for killing someone for them - outside the concord bounty system and using kill-mail and proof, or the 3rd system which is killing someone to sell their clone corpse, because there is a market for clone corpses of famous members of the community, or simply because someone wants your clone corpse bad.

 

In fact a buddy of mine who flies logi owns one of my clone corpses.  If you want it, he won't sell it for less than 1000 ISK.


------------(ஜ۩۞۩ஜ)------------


Now in GLORIOUS 'HDvisioning60fpsblahg'


------------(ஜ۩۞۩ஜ)------------

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It would have to depend on the situation on hand. Do you want to rack up the bodycount or you do you want starve the miserable bastards of their precious resources? Typically, solo players could just wait for the best time to 1v1 or...a solo player could just as easily drop into the middle of a 1v1 fight as a third-party interest and shift the scales into his favor to choose his target.

 

People never fail to keep thinking in a linear pattern. You could pretty much jump into a chaotic war by 2 opposing forces as a third force and tip the scale that way. You could get invited into a powerful guild that doesn't keep track of its member, carry their banner and start slaughtering people in another parcel under that name and trick those people into thinking the guild you're associated with is declaring war. You then drop that guild name and take a step back at the glorious chain of events you've caused, bag of popcorn in hand.

 

This is a effective solo player in a nutshell.

yojimboex1.gif

 

 

@Synast: Isn't bounty hunting as a profession still worthless because of the low payout from the kill mail percentage? Time = Money and all that.

 

That is a great point. I'm not usually for espionage however if my character is going to worship Chaos... That may be just the thing ;) Craziest thing I've ever done in that regard is to steal the entire level 1 and 2 access bank items in EVE from a corp that forcefully absorbed my corp. Made a nice nickle but felt guilty haha... 

 

It got even worse when I blamed the VP of the corp and the CEO actually believed me...


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That is a great point. I'm not usually for espionage however if my character is going to worship Chaos... That may be just the thing ;) Craziest thing I've ever done in that regard is to steal the entire level 1 and 2 access bank items in EVE from a corp that forcefully absorbed my corp. Made a nice nickle but felt guilty haha... 

 

It got even worse when I blamed the VP of the corp and the CEO actually believed me...

 

I mean that's just one of many aspect of solo play. There's pros and cons of being in a guild, and there's pros and cons of being a solo player. You just make the most of what you have with what you've chosen. It doesn't really help in this particular thread that people have to defend the guilds by bashing the solo aspect, it would only encourage the sadist solo players to really rub it in their face, they've already put a mental note in their head, believe me.

 

Instead of the chaotic and insane "watch the world burn" nature of some solo players (which is awesome since you need exigent threats), you can be more levelheaded by providing services, such as an invisible guiding hand in a time of war, or you scavenge off the dead and haul their things back to sell to crafters  and especially bounty hunting.  That's just solo players pursuing solo players lol.

 

Solo players greatest enemy and one they will respect by some unspoken rule is other solo players. They have their own universe they step into when it comes to killing each other in the foray. Some of the greatest rivalry and obsession with each other is not even guilds, but a solo player against this other solo player. It only makes guilds look sheltered from the ongoings of the world in comparison.

 

Leave the big boy club guilds to piss on each other, solo players will just be pissing ontop of them.

 

 

 

Pretty much yes, still doesn't mean people won't pay you for the other form of Bounty Hunting, which is paying someone a set amount for killing someone for them - outside the concord bounty system and using kill-mail and proof, or the 3rd system which is killing someone to sell their clone corpse, because there is a market for clone corpses of famous members of the community, or simply because someone wants your clone corpse bad.

 

In fact a buddy of mine who flies logi owns one of my clone corpses.  If you want it, he won't sell it for less than 1000 ISK.

 

Bahaha, obsession to another whole level. People are always going to petty and vindictive. So why not give them the tools and means to be so~

 

 


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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:(

 

Reading through the forums it seems like every person here has been with their clan for 70 years and have played 1,600 games together logging over 6,000,000 hours of practice and bonding.

 

Anyone here NOT from an SB or DF (whatever those mean) clan? Feelin' kinda left out and intimidated and would like to meet some newer people.

 

I am not from an established clan/guild/org/etc.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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:(

 

Reading through the forums it seems like every person here has been with their clan for 70 years and have played 1,600 games together logging over 6,000,000 hours of practice and bonding.

 

Anyone here NOT from an SB or DF (whatever those mean) clan? Feelin' kinda left out and intimidated and would like to meet some newer people.

 

You're not alone. I usually hang with a couple of friends, but no huge guilds/clans anymore. Depends on the game really.

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I dont know, from a historical context trying to play Crowfall by yourself will probably not be nearly as fun as you think.

 

Games like this naturally lend themselves to playing better WITH people and in this games context that means a guild. Take a look at EVE. Sure you could play by yourself, but the game would get boring very quickly.

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Large clan/guild? No. Honestly I usually fly solo. Though I've been jumping game to game with a buddy.

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