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bairloch

Respec

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I'm not sure what they called it in the game you played, but I'm talking about the ability to throw out all your earned skills and buy new ones. In effect, reinventing your character in a blink. I have never been a fan of this, it takes away the meaning from your decisions, imho. If you made a "mistake" and "gimped" your character early on, I think you should find ways to use it, not respec out of it and become a cookie cutter.

What say you?


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I dunno, I like the idea of respec because it allows people to change their build if it stops being viable/it's not what they wanted/it doesn't work how they envisioned. Random or flat stat boosts might also be interesting. Namely, the stat increases you get are either random or follow a set pattern, therefore making it impossible to minmax. Or a point buy-in, so you can only minmax so far but still have some control.

 

I'm liking the idea of permadeath more and more. It would allow you to respec in a way that makes sense.

Edited by txteclipse

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lol -- They make you pay real money for it on Wiz -- and I have no complaint about that.  It's not something that should be encouraged.  Adjust to your choices, live with them.  You always have the option of scrapping your avatar and starting over from scratch.  Well, probably.

 

As someone who has become literally a gimp in recent years, I also like the idea of learning to work around your er, imperfections/handicaps.  It is more challenging than you think.  It's weird because while I certainly hate growing more and more crippled and it can be extremely frustrating, there is something satisfying in the challenge of adjusting to it and overcoming the obstacles it causes.  I feel like I've been on a difficult quest in the last half dozen years when I've gone from a limp to a cane to a walker to (fortunately, only partially, if I have to "walk" more than a couple of blocks) power chair.  

 

I say make people live with their noob mistakes and suffer the consequences and adjust to them.  Even our virtual lives need to challenge us.


Not quite carebear, but sort of cousin to,


meh, grumpy old lady...


Never underestimate grumpy old ladies.

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Yes to respecs because it adds diversity, promotes experimentation and reduces cookie cutter builds.

 

The idea that one should be "challenged" by not being able to fix mistakes is ludicrous. If the best games can do to provide challenge is to frustrate players into giving up or starting over, then it's no wonder games are in the state they are in now.

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I'm indifferent, really.

 

But if you can respec, there should be a price, (gold perhaps?)

 

And the amount of gold needed to respec each time. WoW used to do this in its old days, and I liked the system.

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I hate instant unlimited respecs, looking at Diablo 3 one of the many things I hate about that game is that once you reach high level on a certain class there is no reason to ever make a new character as that class, beacuse you can just respec your high level one to whatever you want. Having maybe one respec could be nice, so that your first gimped toon doesn't have to be deleted once you get a better understanding of the game, or so that you can have a level build and switch it for an endgame build.


Invincibility lies in the defence, the chance of victory; in the attack.

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Yes to respecs because it adds diversity, promotes experimentation and reduces cookie cutter builds.

 

The idea that one should be "challenged" by not being able to fix mistakes is ludicrous. If the best games can do to provide challenge is to frustrate players into giving up or starting over, then it's no wonder games are in the state they are in now.

 

What foundation do you have for claiming that respeccing reduces cookie cutter builds?  In reality it rapidly accelerates a game towards cookie cutter builds.  Once one person finds out that +100% to dodge is the gamebreaker for rogues than everyone simply respecs it in. 

 

I'm against a respec other than very minor changes due to an accidental buy or something.  As harsh as it sounds I'd rather see rerolls rather then respec.  This is how we did it before respec was added into Shadowbane.  People played their gimped builds in PVP and leveled their new builds in the off hours.  The whole min max revolution really never started until respec was introduced into the game, before then it would take a month to even test out a new theory. 

 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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My experience would back TSP_Maj's assessment. I've played more than 30 MMOs over the years, and as soon as respecs were added to the game, diversity disappeared. Everyone who for years had complained of being "gimped" was now in one of 2 or 3 dps approved skill or attribute loadouts.

You would hope it would lead to experimentation, since it's so easy to do, but, in reality, only guys like me ended up experimenting. Everyone else just crunched the numbers.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Crunching numbers is going to happen anyways, no matter what.

 

I've played every major MMO there is, and it's clear to me that nothing makes cookie cutter builds worse than limiting respecs. Once players discover they can't fix mistakes easily, experimentation goes out the window. They just go online and research class guides and other resources, looking for the perfect build to use, for fear of having to start over. I've seen it in game chat and game forums for years, the endless questions of, "What's the best build for class xyz?"

 

The truth is that cookie cutter builds happen no matter what, and it's because of one reason, bad game design. Limiting respecs may slow down migration slightly by forcing players to start over, but it doesn't fix the problem. If anything, respecs help identify cookie cutter builds faster, allowing for balancing fixes to happen quicker. This is why I love seeing patches and updates. A lot of players seem to hate a lot of nerfing, but I love seeing it, especially when it's my own class, and the more the better. It means the game is being fixed, and that's a good thing.

Edited by supernautilus

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I'm all for respecs so you can try new stuff and develop new strategies, But they should't be free ( nor should the cost prenuim currecny -.- ), Instead, the cost of a respec should ascend per 1 point specd into anything 

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Well boyos, got ta agree with my mate Maj up there.  But if there was such an ability, it should not apply to them choices made at creation.  No changin of attributes or runes -- only skill points(an' should get increasingly expensive with each point).  'at way it can afford some flexibility but fer those 'at truly want to be in perfect condition, 'ey got to invest tha time to reroll.

Edited by cinnabar_tsp

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I share this opinion. I hate when a newbie plays the game for like 2 days and starts asking for the best build already. 

 

Maybe you should actually read the talents you know.... and build your char the way it fits in your playstyle.

 

People like copying the "best players" instead of being themselves. They forget the TOP 1 has NO ONE to copy. 

 

Imo copying premade builds will never make you the best. The max you can get to be is the second best since the guy who actually invented the build will be so much better than you. This subject makes me MAD!! lol

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I guess a lot depends on how inflexible the character building system will be.  I loved SB's seemingly infinite possibilities for character building and often experimented with things nobody else was doing.  Yeah, sometimes you would end up with a crappy character, but the system was extremely forgiving to reroll. You could in theory respec if you didn't want to re-level in the few days it took, but sometimes it wasn't really cost effective if you didn't have the gold.  Not really an issue though back on the test server lol :P

 

Diablo 3 was cited as being too flexible a system, but I'm sure Blizzard went that way in response to the completely inflexible nature of Diablo 2's original talent trees.  1 mistake and you didn't have enough points to spare to fix your character talents.  

 

I'm more in favor of not frustrating the player base too much with a completely unforgiving system.  Options are nice.  Allow ways to respec or make it so characters can easily become what they are again from scratch.  This is coming more from the casual-tired-and-not-enough-time-to-game-like-I-used-to viewpoint.  

Edited by wyvernwulf

wwsigcrowfall.jpg
                         ~For the Honor and Memory of Ahz Badaxe~

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Wycernwulf, you bring up a good point with your "not enough time" comment. I was hesitant to go there, but I guess it's kind of unavoidable with this topic.

 

When I was a younger player and had unlimited play time, I would have thought nothing of endless rerolling. But I'm approaching 40 now, and time has become a precious commodity. Wasting time is something to be avoided, not relished. And rerolling is just a waste of time. It's not fun and adds nothing positive to a gaming experience for me. I want to get into a game and just have fun. I wanna try stuff, and if it doesn't work, I wanna change back without a hassle. I don't think that's unreasonable.

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It may not be unreasonable, but it's also not universal. I'm also just shy of 40 and I find character creation and customization to be quite fun. I usually have multiple rerolls running around to try different concepts. Heck, maybe just because I want to play as that character model even if it has no inherent benefits. I look forward to rerolling.

 

To each his own.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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There's some rules in D&D that allow spellcasters to drop a spell they learned previously and pick up a new one if they want to. A system like that could work: at each level, you get your normal level up perks, and you can also alter your previous choices in a very limited fashion. Maybe move one ability point around.

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I'm not sure what they called it in the game you played, but I'm talking about the ability to throw out all your earned skills and buy new ones. In effect, reinventing your character in a blink. I have never been a fan of this, it takes away the meaning from your decisions, imho. If you made a "mistake" and "gimped" your character early on, I think you should find ways to use it, not respec out of it and become a cookie cutter.

What say you?

I say you should be drug out back and beaten with a garden hose. That's what say I. What say you?

 

Horrible horrible horrible, god awful, 2nd worst idea ever.

 

Not only should you be able to respec but it should be dirt cheap. If not, free. You are one of those LARP roleplayer kids arent you?

Edited by verbin

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I'm not sure what they called it in the game you played, but I'm talking about the ability to throw out all your earned skills and buy new ones. In effect, reinventing your character in a blink. I have never been a fan of this, it takes away the meaning from your decisions, imho. If you made a "mistake" and "gimped" your character early on, I think you should find ways to use it, not respec out of it and become a cookie cutter.

What say you?

 

 

I share this opinion. I hate when a newbie plays the game for like 2 days and starts asking for the best build already. 

 

Maybe you should actually read the talents you know.... and build your char the way it fits in your playstyle.

 

People like copying the "best players" instead of being themselves. They forget the TOP 1 has NO ONE to copy. 

 

Imo copying premade builds will never make you the best. The max you can get to be is the second best since the guy who actually invented the build will be so much better than you. This subject makes me MAD!! lol

You guys do know that if there's not gonna be any respeccing at all, that pretty much promotes people to go with cookie cutter builds instead of experimenting, right?


7ug90hM.png


 


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