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skytea

Any plans for in game Proximity Voice Chat?

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You keep talking like there is no way to communicate in game with other players with no voice chat. How do you think its been done for all these years? We get it you really REALLY want in game voice chat but exaggerating and using false premises isn't going to help your cause.

 

Just wow... let me get this straight.

 

Just because you can make fire with two peices of wood and kindling we should NEVER have invented the lighter? What's next? Because smoke signals can be used to relay information we don't need the internet?

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I think it'd be nice to offer some suggestions as to how it can even be implemented. It's not always required for ACE to do a full on implementation. There is an open source program called "Mumble" which can interact with game codes.

 

For instance, if you and two others meet in the middle of nowhere, you can say "channel 12" like you would in a walkie talkie. This "channel 12" put in chat can also be a link (perhaps) and directly opens Mumble into the correct server/channel.

 

All ACE would need to do for that is host an open source (free) Mumble server with channels inside it. And to make it easier to link in game (mumble links look like: "mumble://[username[:password]@]<address>[:port]/[channelpath]?version=<serverversion>[&title=<servername>][&url=<serverurl>]" so you can totally choose the channel inside the server etc). That would probably be the hardest part actually.

 

Not saying I'm a developer or that I understand all the intricacies of what's required, but even if ACE doesn't want to do it for us, gamers can find alternatives. If ACE doesn't host the public Mumble server then someone else probably will if the game is very successful. It's hella cheap and requires low bandwidth. Plus if ACE were so inclined they could expand this "Voip" system with positional audio (If a player is to your left, you'll hear them in the left speaker).

 

And just for funs, an outrageous set up of what ACE's mumble server could be like:

 

* Player logs into game, is also logged in hidden to a "voip server" with channels like "Lobby, World 1, World 2, EK#1345" which automatically mutes all players

* Player goes into a campaign and is hidden switched to channel "World 1"

* Player runs into 2 other people and decides to communicate by offering a "call" (basically moves them into a temporary channel inside "World 1")

* Server unmutes channel so users can hear what's happening

 

And all that would be quite a lot of work (not just including what i've written but the in game ui and the settings like push to talk calibrating voice activation etc). For sure. Without knowing how well it would be used it would be a gamble whether to invest time into it or not. As always first priorities go to the PvP system to make sure the fighting/combat is truly spectacular.

 

All these things are hypothetical additions, which are fun to talk through, but we can't obviously say one way or another whether they should be invested in without doing things like polls or discussing possible alternatives like a public Mumble server hosted by one of us, a whale in the community, or ACE themselves.

 

---

 

Edit: Just to be clear, I want to explain what I think is the "simplest compromise solution thingy". As a TL;DR if you will.

 

* ACE "partners" with a mumble host (this could be their own server, a whale in the community's, or some other random people helping to pay for it; kinda like how they're "partnered" with gamepedia for their official wiki, cuz it's a wiki, and it's free for them).

* ACE implements a way to "link" to this server in game (already set up by mumble, just needs to be "clickable" in game by ACE)

* Players can click the link when it pops up in chat and talk, or if they don't want to waste their time they can start killing each other.

 

Of course this just requires everyone to have mumble installed. If they don't, they can't talk. Easy peasy.

 

---

 

Edit2: And just to help "moderate" the discussion, if you want at least some form of understanding of what the community wants, you can (in part) get an idea by doing a poll here in the forums. This isn't everyone voting, but you'll at least see what active forum members might want out of a Voip system being integrated in game or not.

Edited by Roux

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Your reasoning is flawed, just because Blizzard hasn't seen fit to implement voice chat doesn't mean they can't do so with their vast resources. When it comes to WOW Blizzard will only implement innovations long-after they've become standard in other MMORPGs; this is because Blizzard is content to exploit the remaining users of their stagnant game, hardly an example worth following. Instead, ACE should continue to display the level of ambitious that has already made Crowfall famous, by including innovative gameplay mechanics to at last move the MMORPG genre forward. To that end, one such innovation worth including is voice chat, as way to further improve the level of communication within the game. Because text won't always be there, especially when players are faced with the choice of controlling their character or saying something in text; integrated voice chat for all players is the smart and efficient decision to make.

 

As pang pointed out, Blizzard did add voice chat to WoW, ~7.5 years ago and it still hasn't caught on from what I understand. From what I've read and friends that still play it (shiver) say, just not up to par with 3rd parties. So wasn't for a lack of trying or money, people just don't use it, one of my friendly WoW addicts didn't even know it was still an option.

 

Text will be around for a long time and haven't seen it be a major issue since my days with MUDs, no matter if PVE, PVP, slow combat, fast combat, etc.

 

VOIP has clearly become important if not mandatory for organized and some casual play, but it is more of a convenience than necessity. Some formats like console make it a high priority, but even then some folks still use 3rd party software to communicate.

 

If implemented properly, I'm not sure how any can honesty not believe it could add to the game, even if they opt-out of it. Unfortunately, I think that is where the issue can and has come from with poor attempts that left much to be desired. 

 

I'm all for it myself if it doesn't hinder me in any way (performance, delay of game or other features). They are already going with Unity and Voxels which don't exactly have an amazing track record in the genre, in-game VOIP isn't too far of a stretch....goal  :) although I have no clue if anyone on the team has experience with such tech or would even want to. As I said, isn't as easy as snapping their fingers.

 

Not much else can be said until ACE decides to chime in. We all have opinions, but not the one that matters (ACE's).

Edited by allein

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Edit2: And just to help "moderate" the discussion, if you want at least some form of understanding of what the community wants, you can (in part) get an idea by doing a poll here in the forums. This isn't everyone voting, but you'll at least see what active forum members might want out of a Voip system being integrated in game or not.

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5245-in-game-voip/page-3

 

Pretty much the same response as those here.

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http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5245-in-game-voip/page-3

 

Pretty much the same response as those here.

 

Ah, was not aware of that! Well it is enough to allow discussion and hopefully enough for the naysayers to realize there is a demand.

 

Whether or not it's worth it is obviously up to ACE. It'd be interesting if they had some unique take on voice communication in game. Like sure, you want to communicate with players. But why not communicate with the game too? Like super stretch goal Siri/Google Now dictation lol! "Build 5 copper ores". Then you'd just see a bunch of people talking to their screens all day  ^_^ That'd be very difficult I think (but also the coolest implementation)

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Ah, was not aware of that! Well it is enough to allow discussion and hopefully enough for the naysayers to realize there is a demand.

 

Whether or not it's worth it is obviously up to ACE. It'd be interesting if they had some unique take on voice communication in game. Like sure, you want to communicate with players. But why not communicate with the game too? Like super stretch goal Siri/Google Now dictation lol! "Build 5 copper ores". Then you'd just see a bunch of people talking to their screens all day  ^_^ That'd be very difficult I think (but also the coolest implementation)

Well no one really argued against some wanting it. Just that not enough want it and its not enough of a necessary feature to be included in the game when already existing forms of communication are available.

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Just wow... let me get this straight.

 

Just because you can make fire with two peices of wood and kindling we should NEVER have invented the lighter? What's next? Because smoke signals can be used to relay information we don't need the internet?

Your analogy isn't the one I would have selected. Instead, try "Just because we could kill people with stick and rocks, we should NEVER have invented the gun?" To which, it could be argued, the answer should be yes.

 

Because of the amount of griefing and unwanted interaction that PVC (not polyvinylchloride, apparently) opens players up to, it is more apt to use a weapon as your analogy. Does this have any effect on your opinion if viewed this way?


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Your analogy isn't the one I would have selected. Instead, try "Just because we could kill people with stick and rocks, we should NEVER have invented the gun?" To which, it could be argued, the answer should be yes.

 

Because of the amount of griefing and unwanted interaction that PVC (not polyvinylchloride, apparently) opens players up to, it is more apt to use a weapon as your analogy. Does this have any effect on your opinion if viewed this way?

Yeah for a while I was rather confused why some were arguing that a synthetic polymer plastic should be added to the game. I mean yeah its great for plumbing pipes and many uses as plastics but couldn't fathom the applications for an MMORPG. :huh:

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Well no one really argued against some wanting it. Just that not enough want it and its not enough of a necessary feature to be included in the game when already existing forms of communication are available.

On the contrary, just on the last page the claim was made that nobody wanted to see integrated voice chat in Crowfall. Your conceding that such a statement isn't true seems more like backpedalling, given the context of this thread, where the mere idea of voice chat has been met with scorn and outright ridicule by those opposed to the discussion. Yet integrated voice chat is a worthwhile feature for Crowfall to have, a fine addition to an already highly ambitious game. Issues of cost and implementation are being exaggerated, when even low-budget survival games can implement this sort of feature with little difficulty. I mean, it really is time for the MMORPG genre to move forward, modern ideas like voice chat will help Crowfall to keep pace with the rest of the industry. To do any less in this generation will simply make MMORPGs a joke amongst gamers, more so then the genre already is in many corners.

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Well no one really argued against some wanting it. Just that not enough want it and its not enough of a necessary feature to be included in the game when already existing forms of communication are available

 

Your statement is false as the link provided already proves the community, at least the forum community, is currently spilt down the center on this subject. Also you deeming the feature as not necessary is your opinion (maybe others as well) and you are more than welcome to that opinion, however third party communication is normally used for organized guilds not entire factions. To presume that PVC is not a useful tool is also false as faction members around your general proximity can better service your guilds goals with insight of your plans though proximity chat. I would never say the devs must implement PVC into the game as they can do as they wish and players will always adapt to what they have available to them.

 

Are there pros and cons to this feature? Yes

Do the cons outway the pros? imo no

Will people abuse the feature? really its the internet if its not this feature being abused it will be some other feature.

 

The fact of the matter is that it matters not what communication (except maybe third party programs if setup with a password) you are using (voice, text, smoke signals, telepathy) someone will be there to abuse it.

Edited by wolfuse

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As long as I can turn it off; I'm fine with it.

 

Actually... I might just mute myself and then keep it on just to hear the mouth breathers hot mic-ing while "hiding" behind a rock.  Might make killing people easier.


mael4.jpg


Been around the MMO Block...


Sardoni

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"At least one voice on each side" is not synonymous with "split down the center".


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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"At least one voice on each side" is not synonymous with "split down the center".

 

Did you even look at the link which in included a community poll on the subject or just decide to spew dribble to try to prove me wrong.

Edited by wolfuse

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Did you even look at the link which in included a community poll on the subject or just decide to spew dribble to try to prove me wrong.

66-56 is not "down the center", it's a little off to the left. Also, one doesn't spew dribble; the word you're looking for is drivel.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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66-56 is not "down the center", it's a little off to the left. Also, one doesn't spew dribble; the word you're looking for is drivel.

 

That said, it wasn't a "Yes/No" Poll.  2 leaned to yes, 1 didn't care, and only 1 was really a hard no :P

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Also true. And it's not like the self selected population of a messageboard is going to be a scientifically valid population sample of the game membership at release.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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On the contrary, just on the last page the claim was made that nobody wanted to see integrated voice chat in Crowfall. Your conceding that such a statement isn't true seems more like backpedalling, given the context of this thread, where the mere idea of voice chat has been met with scorn and outright ridicule by those opposed to the discussion. Yet integrated voice chat is a worthwhile feature for Crowfall to have, a fine addition to an already highly ambitious game. Issues of cost and implementation are being exaggerated, when even low-budget survival games can implement this sort of feature with little difficulty. I mean, it really is time for the MMORPG genre to move forward, modern ideas like voice chat will help Crowfall to keep pace with the rest of the industry. To do any less in this generation will simply make MMORPGs a joke amongst gamers, more so then the genre already is in many corners.

 

None of us can speak for others at least not without making sweeping generalizations. Anyone claiming that "everyone" believes something is either god like or doesn't mean "everyone."

 

As far as cost and implementation, it isn't apples to apples. Unless you know specific details of other games, hard to assume that it is easy or not costly to not just pull off, but pull off well. Many games have VOIP, not all have it at a standard that I'd find acceptable or worth the hassle it probably took adding it.

 

If you are really concerned with the genre or this game specifically becoming a joke because of the lack of VOIP, not sure what else to say. No clue where these corners are where people snicker about mmorpgs lacking VOIP, but I'd probably avoid them myself.

Edited by allein

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Also true. And it's not like the self selected population of a messageboard is going to be a scientifically valid population sample of the game membership at release.

 

What? Less than a 100 relatively active fans don't represent 10s to 100s of thousands of gamers?  :rolleyes:

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Also true. And it's not like the self selected population of a messageboard is going to be a scientifically valid population sample of the game membership at release.

 

Nor did i say it was as I did state forum community and at the time i posted that, the numbers were far more closer together.  Either way it is still nowhere near the original statement that there was "not enough" people for the feature. In the same way  i am not stating that there is not enough people against the feature as this is still a rather small community and not everyone will be a player.

 

The purpose of a suggestion is just that a suggestion, whether the devs choose to implement it is still solely up to them. You may not like the suggestion but there has not been a true argument against the feature. I am sorry but cost and possible annoyance from morons can be easily evaded. Since crowfall seems to be a crowd funded game the possibility of making a stretch goal to cover the cost is possible. Also they are many different available options with a feature like this to eliminate the morons from effecting your eardrums, just like the text chat you can ignore morons, remove certain types of chat from the window, or even turn off the entire chat window. The only argument plausible would be if the game was unable to support it, which i highly doubt. 

 

Again, I prefer to have this feature but will not cry in a corner if it never sees the light of day.

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