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skytea

Any plans for in game Proximity Voice Chat?

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You're right, I don't understand what you are saying.

 

Yes, I won't use only in game voip, I'll use 3rd party for my premade groups, and proximity for dynamic grouping.

 

So I have 2 hotkeys.  One for in game, one for Teamspeak.  This is already true in a ton of games I play (Dota, Battlefield, DayZ, Evolve...literally any game with in-game voip), so how is this a major issue?

Again comparing MOBAs and survival sandbox games to Crowfall doesn't make much sense. Can't really compare random encounters and lobby games to how the gameplay in Crowfall will be. Talking hundreds of players all in the same area for long periods of time. If you think that's feasible then that's on you I guess to mange that but again many won't want the hassle of dealing with multiple voice channels in a chaotic environment that will be found in Crowfall.

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Doctor, you've made some very intelligent posts, as usual. But you have consistently dodged the issue of cost and priority. It was said well above, and it still stands.

 

With a limited budget, this should not be a priority. It is for a subset of players, not the whole, and so should be back burnered.

 

Whether it is included eventually or not, whatever. As you say, I can turn it off. But it should be far, far down the road in the development calendar because of the niche quality of the item.

 

One correction though, you said Crowfall will not have an IFF indicator. On the contrary, the devs have already shown us in game shots of heraldry on shields and armor. In certain campaigns, this will, very clearly, delineate who is friend and who is foe. I don't think being able to talk to them will make much difference at that point.

 

For Kintor, we have had very different experiences in games, apparently. When I discover another group in an open PvP game, it is 1. very clear which side they are on and 2. very quick to escalate. Even with voice coms, I have never heard anything but taunts, insults and trashtalk from the enemy. I have not played a survival game. Maybe those are different.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Again comparing MOBAs and survival sandbox games to Crowfall doesn't make much sense. Can't really compare random encounters and lobby games to how the gameplay in Crowfall will be. Talking hundreds of players all in the same area for long periods of time. If you think that's feasible then that's on you I guess to mange that but again many won't want the hassle of dealing with multiple voice channels in a chaotic environment that will be found in Crowfall.

 

If hundreds of players have organized in the same area for a long period of time, yeah that's not really what PVC is for.

If I'm that organized, I will still be in my own VOIP.  I don't see why you seem to not understand that both can coexist.

 

Doctor, you've made some very intelligent posts, as usual. But you have consistently dodged the issue of cost and priority. It was said well above, and it still stands.

 

That's because I'm not trying to convince ACE they can afford to do it.  I'm just trying to prove value.

 

Somewhere many pages back, and probably even on the previous thread, I pointed out that I'm not saying it's within their budget or their technological ability to implement VOIP.  I've tried to repeat it again a few times, but probably not as often as needed, so let me be clear.

 

I am not saying ACE should prioritize VOIP.  Especially over other features.

 

I am saying that VOIP is absolutely valuable, and adds more than it hinders, in terms of features.

 

Whether they can/should implement it is another story entirely.

 

It's like, making graphics powerful enough that every player could look unique enough to be recognizable based on looks alone would be super valuable.  Should they spend time on it?  Probably not.

 

My goal here is to hopefully illustrate why VOIP is valuable.  Whether it's feasible to implement: I leave to ACE to figure that out.

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The idea is that players will be using integrated voice chat to minimise the rate of unnecessary conflict. So that unaffiliated players can quickly form groups, even with people they've never met before, instead of mindlessly attacking somebody who could turn-out to be a reliable ally. Communication is key in an MMORPG; the potential for voice chat is that it will allow better coordination amongst players at all time. No longer would players be forced to choose whether to control their avatar or type-out some text, voice chat allows players to accomplish both at the same time. Making integrated voice chat a worthwhile feature for ACE to develop, as the whole Crowfall community stands to benefit from such innovation.

 

Most players are not going to use some ingame voip to try to not fight. All fights are necessary. Why? Every server has a food chain? What creates this food chain? Well, that is a few things, but to put it simply, it comes down to who dies the most and who kills the most.  It is not the soldiers job to find allies. That is the job of your guild leader or officers. I have never had to worry about whether or not I need to type or control my toon. Why? I am always in my ts3 server. If some guy messages me, they just have to wait until the fight is over. If you do not have the same tags, you get no love. I will respond after the kill spam is done.

 

 

 

That really is the absurdity of this thread.  Many of the naysayers' arguments seem to basically boil down to "in game voice chat never works," when in fact there are real concrete examples of where it has.  And yet they continue to argue that it can never work.

 

Fun fact: most of the people in favor of voice chat aren't claiming that it will work, we're just claiming that it can and that if it were done right, it would absolutely add value.  So as long as we have concrete examples of games where it did work, and it did add value, I find it hilarious that there's still so much insistence that we're wrong.

 

Us "naysayers" know this type of community better than the "yaysayers". We are not saying it never works. We are saying it won't work here. Every shadowbane player is going to kill before questions asked.  I bet the same goes with the Df players.  Why should I put my trust into random people when there is inventory drop on death? My guild has already proved that they are trust worthy.  You are thinking about this a bit too one sided. Look at it from the more hardcore side.

 

 

 

You're still assuming you have all this time to set up/join the same VOIP.  In a pinch, I'd risk being heard so I could maybe grab these extra 10 dudes to help me out, rather than waiting 5 minutes to make sure everyone is on the same voip/channel.

There is a big rule when it comes to the player base of SB. You do not whats so ever fight along side another guild that is not in your nation. The only time this is allowed is it is planned way ahead time. By that, I mean for like a siege. By the time that happens, every one is already in the 3rd party voip anyways. 

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Us "naysayers" know this type of community better than the "yaysayers". We are not saying it never works. We are saying it won't work here. Every shadowbane player is going to kill before questions asked.  I bet the same goes with the Df players.  Why should I put my trust into random people when there is inventory drop on death? My guild has already proved that they are trust worthy.  You are thinking about this a bit too one sided. Look at it from the more hardcore side.

 

There is a big rule when it comes to the player base of SB. You do not whats so ever fight along side another guild that is not in your nation. The only time this is allowed is it is planned way ahead time. By that, I mean for like a siege. By the time that happens, every one is already in the 3rd party voip anyways. 

 

Lol, ok I lied.  The real absurdity in this thread is Handies insistence on the fact that he knows everything about everyone and he knows that this game will be exclusively Shadowbane players who play just like they played in Shadowbane because this game is just Shadowbane again.

 

:rolleyes:

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Lol, ok I lied.  The real absurdity in this thread is Handies insistence on the fact that he knows everything about everyone and he knows that this game will be exclusively Shadowbane players who play just like they played in Shadowbane because this game is just Shadowbane again.

 

:rolleyes:

"this game will be exclusively Shadowbane players who play just like they played in Shadowbane because this game is just Shadowbane again." Uh, what?  Tell me, what pvp games did you play? Games that had fights that actually matter. No, survival does not count. That is a different area all together.  From what I am getting from you is, you haven't played poorly made socks. 

 

Are the shadowbane players going to play the exact same way they did before? Yes. I know this for a fact. Have you not seen the forumfalling? 

2ZozmwZ.gif

 

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To be fair, in every open pvp MMO I've played there was always a substantial portion of the population practicing "kill first, questions later" to the point one could consider it a norm to expect. It's hardly unique to Shadowbane.

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To be fair, in every open pvp MMO I've played there was always a substantial portion of the population practicing "kill first, questions later" to the point one could consider it a norm to expect. It's hardly unique to Shadowbane.

Yep, its a pretty common PvP mantra of "if its red its dead". You see an enemy player, you attack, you see a rival guild member you attack etc. You don't wait to see if they want to talk first lol. Even more so in a full loot, item decay game. You hesitate and try to talk your dead, you lost some gear and now need to fix gear that didn't drop.

Edited by pang

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To be fair, in every open pvp MMO I've played there was always a substantial portion of the population practicing "kill first, questions later" to the point one could consider it a norm to expect. It's hardly unique to Shadowbane.

 

That is not my point at all. 

 

Yeah Overkill, don't take away Handies attempt to be knower-supreme of all things Shadowbane and Crowfall, and come in here with your logic.  It's not welcome in the kingdom of Handies!

 

But to respond more directly, a portion of the population practicing KoS is certainly common, and I'm not saying it won't be.  But I highly doubt that Shadowbane era rules of "No being friends with people in other nations!" are going to be absolutely the same a decade later in a game with clearly different designs.  Not to mention the fact that Shadowbane players will inevitably end up being the minority of the playerbase, at least at the start.

Yep, its a pretty common PvP mantra of "if its red its dead". You see an enemy player, you attack, you see a rival guild member you attack etc. You don't wait to see if they want to talk first lol. Even more so in a full loot, item decay game. You hesitate and try to talk your dead, you lost some fear and now need to fix gear that didn't drop.

 

Except in the Dregs everything is red, so how do you think that'll work?

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Yeah Overkill, don't take away Handies attempt to be knower-supreme of all things Shadowbane and Crowfall, and come in here with your logic.  It's not welcome in the kingdom of Handies!

 

But to respond more directly, a portion of the population practicing KoS is certainly common, and I'm not saying it won't be.  But I highly doubt that Shadowbane era rules of "No being friends with people in other nations!" are going to be absolutely the same a decade later in a game with clearly different designs.  Not to mention the fact that Shadowbane players will inevitably end up being the minority of the playerbase, at least at the start.

 

Except in the Dregs everything is red, so how do you think that'll work?

I never once said we don't have friends in other guilds. Every guild does. However, there is a time and place for grouping with them and in random skirmishes, that is not one of them. 

 

But hey, at least you know who your better is.

 

 

 

"Rival guild" read the post better, don't just cherry pick. This is an MMO it'll have target frames and name tags.

Meh, I called him out and he dodged. Typical scrub. I hope he likes dying.

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Except in the Dregs everything is red, so how do you think that'll work?

 

Why would it be different there?

Unless the person is in your guild/alliance or you're being told by the guild/alliance leaders to leave certain other guilds alone, you attack him/her. :)

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Why would it be different there?

Unless the person is in your guild/alliance or you're being told by the guild/alliance leaders to leave certain other guilds alone, you attack him/her. :)

 

Well, I guess when it comes down to it we'll see who wins.  The guys who are willing to work together to shut other guilds down, or the guys who insist that only officially sanctioned allies can be allies, and all else are enemies always.

 

IMO, Game of Thrones wouldn't work so well if everyone immediately took down everyone else they met.  There are alliances, changes in opinion, people pretending to be friends, people pretending to not realize that the other people are only pretending to be friends.  Not everything comes down to an official list of teams and allies.

 

As they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  And when I run into someone in the field who turns out to be the enemy of my enemy, I see no problem with wanting to work together, at least temporarily.

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Well, I guess when it comes down to it we'll see who wins.  The guys who are willing to work together to shut other guilds down, or the guys who insist that only officially sanctioned allies can be allies, and all else are enemies always.

 

IMO, Game of Thrones wouldn't work so well if everyone immediately took down everyone else they met.  There are alliances, changes in opinion, people pretending to be friends, people pretending to not realize that the other people are only pretending to be friends.  Not everything comes down to an official list of teams and allies.

 

As they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  And when I run into someone in the field who turns out to be the enemy of my enemy, I see no problem with wanting to work together, at least temporarily.

That is all still possible w/o in game voice chat. Never needed it before, don't need it now. Sorry you can't see or comprehend that but it is a fact nonetheless. Keep thinking you can't work with others w/o voice chat though, I'm sure that'll get you far in this game.

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That is all still possible w/o in game voice chat. Never needed it before, don't need it now. Sorry you can't see or comprehend that but it is a fact nonetheless. Keep thinking you can't work with others w/o voice chat though, I'm sure that'll get you far in this game.

 

:rolleyes: You're right, there's zero difference between voice and text.  No possible advantages or disadvantages.  Nothing that proximity chat could ever offer.  I'm sorry for not believing your insistence that anything else was true.

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That is all still possible w/o in game voice chat. Never needed it before, don't need it now. Sorry you can't see or comprehend that but it is a fact nonetheless. Keep thinking you can't work with others w/o voice chat though, I'm sure that'll get you far in this game.

People did this all the time in multi guild bane fights. You just need a decent target caller per guild and poof! You can easily work together without being in the same voip.

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Again comparing MOBAs and survival sandbox games to Crowfall doesn't make much sense. Can't really compare random encounters and lobby games to how the gameplay in Crowfall will be. Talking hundreds of players all in the same area for long periods of time. If you think that's feasible then that's on you I guess to mange that but again many won't want the hassle of dealing with multiple voice channels in a chaotic environment that will be found in Crowfall.

 

This logic you use is flawed. Just as Doc may not know how encounters will play out neither do you. So to try to push your view on the subject as fact is just asinine. Also have you ever played PS2, i am guessing not as if you had you would know massive battles take place in POI which as with crowfall hundreds of people fight over. Try cramming 99 TR vs 60 VS vs 80 NC into a bio-dome and watch the chaos ensue; however on rare occasions i do have to turn an idiot down during a fight. Even in the mist of combat muting one of the rare morons that happen to be blasting "Highway to Hell" has been simple. If anyone is to lazy to press the - or + to turn a player down or up then that is just sad imo.

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Established facts so far:

 

-Considering the split here on the forums there is at least 50% of the people interested in PVC.

-PVC is cheap to integrate in Unity engine, it won't cost nothing but it wont cost much.

-PVC encourages player interaction and role play.

-PVC does not augment the numbers or griefers, there would have been as much over a text based medium

-If you do not want to use it, you do not have to.

-Muting / Ignoring players is the same as doing it for text based, therefore not any harder to do.

 

I have so far not seen a single counter argument in this thread that didn't use a logical fallacy or flat out made no sense. It is really disappointing to see people just post after post trying to use personal opinions  and fallacies to prove points that have clearly been proven wrong.

 

All I can think of is that you are thinking that having the last reply will make you right... Or you are just posting to increase your post count.

Edited by Argasoth

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Established facts so far:

 

-Considering the split here on the forums there is at least 50% of the people interested in PVC.

-PVC is cheap to integrate in Unity engine, it won't cost nothing but it wont cost much.

-PVC encourages player interaction and role play.

-PVC does not augment the numbers or griefers, there would have been as much over a text based medium

-If you do not want to use it, you do not have to.

-Muting / Ignoring players is the same as doing it for text based, therefore not any harder to do.

 

I have so far not seen a single counter argument in this thread that didn't use a logical fallacy or flat out made no sense. It is really disappointing to see people just post after post trying to use personal opinions  and fallacies to prove points that have clearly been proven wrong.

 

All I can think of is that you are thinking that having the last reply will make you right... Or you are just posting to increase your post count.

There has been plenty of logic stated in this thread. It is not our fault you can not see it.

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