Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
skytea

Any plans for in game Proximity Voice Chat?

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

How I think it's been done all these years?  Well, I think the industry has slowly moved away from organically interacting with the people around you in games.  We get games where everything is instanced, group content, and you're expected to make your friends beforehand.

 

Easy to say I'm "exaggerating and using false premises" without actually giving any examples.   :rolleyes:

 

 

 

This is a challenge that may be too hard to overcome, admittedly.  I'm going to go on a crazy limb and take a game-designery-guess here though, and suggest one of those features that sounds awful at first but might actually work interestingly (like permadeath in roguelikes).  What if after so many people in an area PVC range would drop dramatically (like only hear someone basically on top of you), or even just got muted completely?

 

I mean, think of it kinda like how in a hectic battle, communication falls apart.  This is a pretty natural feeling as it is.  So maybe, when people start clustering, proximity communication gets less effective.

 

Just a wild idea, think it over for a bit.

 

But like I've said, I'm not saying CF can have PVC.  It's a reasonable response, IMO, to say "This isn't feasible, sorry."  I just think it absolutely should have PVC.  My platform is mostly that PVC has to happen in these kinds of games someday.  It just has to.  Maybe CF isn't the one, but there's no way I'll agree that it's because "voice chat is an unnecessary feature."

 

 

As an aside, do you know if current PVC systems position sound in 3d space, or is it just a volume gradient based on x,y distance? 

 

 

I would reckon you'd just have to mute it going into any decent sized fights, not a problem as long it's just a button push away.

 

I wasn't talking about how muddy it would be, but rather the technical limitations and load that would be placed both on the client and server-end from having to process the information. I


ncLez59.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, do you know if current PVC systems position sound in 3d space, or is it just a volume gradient based on x,y distance? 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about how muddy it would be, but rather the technical limitations and load that would be placed both on the client and server-end from having to process the information. I

 

I did an edit, it wouldn't be impossible to code it to shut itself down at levels where it would start being an issue for servers or clients, a threshold of some order would be needed either way.


Member of The BlackHand Order

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did an edit, it wouldn't be impossible to code it to shut itself down at levels where it would start being an issue for servers or clients, a threshold of some order would be needed either way.

 

Probably possible, I just don't know enough about how the system works. If it were possible in that system, I wouldn't' mind PVC if it came with granular controls:

 

[*]Accept PVC from all players

[*]Accept no PVC 
 
[*]Allow PVC for the following:

 

[*]Accept PVC from allies

[*]Accept PVC from guildmates

[*]Accept PVC from friends

[*]Allow PVC Requests (requests with slider bar for duration)

 

If the PVC were implemented I'd also like to see a general Do-Not-Disturb setting with a time slider.


ncLez59.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh, are you really still talking about this 7 pages later? I don't know that I really care either way. Most games I play don't have it and it's a non-issue and I'm not totally convinced that we even need it here. But I don't care enough to throw a hissy fit if we do. Just if we do, let's not make it some complicated BS and please don't take valuable keybinds such as V, S, X, etc. whoever suggested that a few pages ago for some unnecessary chat box shortcuts. Make it simple and easy to use, or not use. Done.

Edited by Leiloni

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh, are you really still talking about this 7 pages later? I don't know that I really care either way. Most games I play don't have it and it's a non-issue and I'm not totally convinced that we even need it here. But I don't care enough to throw a hissy fit if we do. Just if we do, let's not make it some complicated BS and please don't take valuable keybinds such as V, S, X, etc. whoever suggested that a few pages ago for some unnecessary chat box shortcuts. Make it simple and easy to use, or not use. Done.

 

It's not like this game won't be fully rebindable. 


ncLez59.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the problem with ingame voice is that its quantity over quality but its true its better then nothing i just hope that the game will be external voice chat friendly like for example if i alt-tab from the game will it shut down? or crash? ect

and other such things like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the problem with ingame voice is that its quantity over quality but its true its better then nothing i just hope that the game will be external voice chat friendly like for example if i alt-tab from the game will it shut down? or crash? ect

and other such things like that.

 

If you ever experience crashes from alt-tabbing, I recommend you set the game to Fullscreen Window mode when the setting is available. Using true fullscreen grants the application exlusive rights to your graphics driver (as in your desktop isn't being rendered once the app opens). Alt-tabbing in this scenario means that the desktop has to be redrawn, and alt-tabbing back to the game requires windows to hand-off control again. Some games don't handle this well, which is why they crash, or you come back to just a black screen. Full Screen Windowed modes cause a small hit to performance, but allow smooth alt-tabbing.

 

As this game is a Unity title though, I doubt alt-tabbing in either mode would be a problem.


ncLez59.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Why would we not want to implement something that is so hugley popular and benificial to the game?!

Cost, performance, and reliability.

 

1) Cost: This feature is not free to maintain and implement. This cost WILL be passed along to the consumer in some fashion. Some of us are not fans of even indirectly paying for a service we either have to turn off due to the obnoxious, or turn on and yet still have it perform in a fashion sub par to dedicated third party VOIP.

 

2) Performance. VOIP uses bandwidth. Good quality VOIP uses even more bandwidth - and it has to use it constantly, reserving that bandwidth, or you start getting massive lag the more people you have around and the server is constantly having to deal with that. You can't preload voicechat like you can meshes and textures. And that's just client side. You also just added that much more bandwidth per player the server has to deal with. This is not free. This does not come without performance cost.

 

3) Reliability: Server connection go boom, so does in game VOIP. 3rd party VOIP often stays up even when a player gets D/C'd since it does not share the same network topology as the game.

 

In game proximity VOIP is mechanically inferior to third party external VOIP in all "the buck stops here" ways. In exchange, you get a tad more immersion. Not worth the cost.

Edited by Overkillengine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In game proximity VOIP is mechanically inferior to third party external VOIP in all "the buck stops here" ways. In exchange, you get a tad more immersion. Not worth the cost.

On the contrary, having an integrated voice chat system stands to offer several technical advantages over a third-party set-up;  after all, having a dedicated voice chat system in Crowfall means that everyone will be able to communicate without having to find compatible third-party software. This is especially important for players who encounter each other in the field for the first time, who wouldn't have any way to tell what third-party program (if any) the other player might be using in contrast to their own. As such, giving all players the means to communicate over the same voice chat system will do wonders for the community of Crowfall as a whole. With technology advancing all the time and the rise of VR gaming the truth is that voice chat can't remain an optional extra feature, those games best able to use integrated voice chat will thrive, while the rest will get left in the dust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest argument against which can't be refuted is that its creation and then further maintenance and upkeep is an expense that a Dev like ACE with a limited budget just can't afford. If it was a must have feature then sure they could find a way to get it in but again as many have stated already, current systems are more than adequate to facilitate communication, so in game voip just isn't needed atm.

 

Sorry for the late reply, but in the current scene I am fairly sure that the proximity voice chat is handled peer to peer and not through the game server, therefore no costs to ACE to "host or maintain it". All the server does it tell your client who to connect to and when.

 

For moderation the server could get connected to all and every conversation and would be a receive only party and record it on low quality settings for moderation, keep it for a week in case of reports. Downstream bandwidth is basically free with the amount of upstream they will need to buy anyway.

 

 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the late reply, but in the current scene I am fairly sure that the proximity voice chat is handled peer to peer and not through the game server, therefore no costs to ACE to "host or maintain it". All the server does it tell your client who to connect to and when.

 

For moderation the server could get connected to all and every conversation and would be a receive only party and record it on low quality settings for moderation, keep it for a week in case of reports. Downstream bandwidth is basically free with the amount of upstream they will need to buy anyway.

 

 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah pretty sure you are vastly underestimating the expense. 3rd party VOIP like TS and Ventrilo require hosted servers so don't see how you could get away with some kind of peer to peer thing in the game. Doesn't sound physically possible as we are talking thousands and hundred's of thousands and even a million players. So yeah ACE will need to rent/purchase server space just like they will for the game servers. Rent cost, maintenance etc.

 

The moderation thing also isn't very realistic IMO, again we are talking thousands and thousands of players. You'll need to now hire more employees to handle that or add to already existing employees duties which takes away from other aspects.

 

So yeah again if this was really a needed and wanted feature then maybe they could afford the expense but again with what's already available in game voice chat just isn't needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah pretty sure you are vastly underestimating the expense. 3rd party VOIP like TS and Ventrilo require hosted servers so don't see how you could get away with some kind of peer to peer thing in the game. Doesn't sound physically possible as we are talking thousands and hundred's of thousands and even a million players. So yeah ACE will need to rent/purchase server space just like they will for the game servers. Rent cost, maintenance etc.

 

The moderation thing also isn't very realistic IMO, again we are talking thousands and thousands of players. You'll need to now hire more employees to handle that or add to already existing employees duties which takes away from other aspects.

 

So yeah again if this was really a needed and wanted feature then maybe they could afford the expense but again with what's already available in game voice chat just isn't needed.

Many gamers are already developing competent voice chat integration, what's seen today most commonly in survival games like Rust is only the beginning. After all, there's no reason at why MMORPGs can't have integrated voice chat as well. The increasingly affordability of high-speed broadband across the world makes it easier than for players to communicate via chat, overcoming the inherent limitations of text-only communications. Besides, it's not as if every player would here the whole zone at once, localised use of voice chat (which is to say, only hearing other nearby players) helps to create a more immersive gameplay experience. Ultimately, integrated voice chat will bring substantial benefit to Crowfall, meaning that ACE would be wise to consider the potential of voice chat as way to future proof the game against the completion which won't hesitate to integrate voice chat at the first opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many gamers are already developing competent voice chat integration, what's seen today most commonly in survival games like Rust is only the beginning. After all, there's no reason at why MMORPGs can't have integrated voice chat as well. The increasingly affordability of high-speed broadband across the world makes it easier than for players to communicate via chat, overcoming the inherent limitations of text-only communications. Besides, it's not as if every player would here the whole zone at once, localised use of voice chat (which is to say, only hearing other nearby players) helps to create a more immersive gameplay experience. Ultimately, integrated voice chat will bring substantial benefit to Crowfall, meaning that ACE would be wise to consider the potential of voice chat as way to future proof the game against the completion which won't hesitate to integrate voice chat at the first opportunity.

Yeah its totally immersive until you hear someone yelling profanity's at you or blasting music into their mics. Can say what ya want but the drawback's will always outweigh anything good that may come of it IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah its totally immersive until you hear someone yelling profanity's at you or blasting music into their mics. Can say what ya want but the drawback's will always outweigh anything good that may come of it IMO.

Your concerns about the community of Crowfall are entirely unfounded, this is not Xbox Live and it never will be. The important to remember is that the players in Crowfall will have a real stake in their characters, their reputation amongst players and their place in the game as whole. Anyone foolish enough abuse the voice chat system won't get very far in the game, as they find themselves alone and forsaken by all respectable guilds. While the rest of us can simply enjoy Crowfall all the more thanks to integrated voice chat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there is PVC and there is an option to mute PVC, there needs to be an obvious visible indicator for PVC-muted clients when someone is trying to say something to you. Big flashing red exclamation point over the speaker's head, or something.

 

I would react very differently to "this stranger is approaching me without offering any kind of communication", and "this stranger is approaching me and attempting to communicate in a channel I don't accept." Those two situations suggest two very different response profiles.

Edited by Jihan

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your concerns about the community of Crowfall are entirely unfounded, this is not Xbox Live and it never will be. The important to remember is that the players in Crowfall will have a real stake in their characters, their reputation amongst players and their place in the game as whole. Anyone foolish enough abuse the voice chat system won't get very far in the game, as they find themselves alone and forsaken by all respectable guilds. While the rest of us can simply enjoy Crowfall all the more thanks to integrated voice chat.

No offense but this a rather naïve stance. Sorry to say but the "Xbox live" crowd is everywhere and not confined to certain games. Theres nothing in Crowfall to keep that type of behavior away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cost, performance, and reliability.

 

1) Cost: This feature is not free to maintain and implement. This cost WILL be passed along to the consumer in some fashion. Some of us are not fans of even indirectly paying for a service we either have to turn off due to the obnoxious, or turn on and yet still have it perform in a fashion sub par to dedicated third party VOIP.

 

2) Performance. VOIP uses bandwidth. Good quality VOIP uses even more bandwidth - and it has to use it constantly, reserving that bandwidth, or you start getting massive lag the more people you have around and the server is constantly having to deal with that. You can't preload voicechat like you can meshes and textures. And that's just client side. You also just added that much more bandwidth per player the server has to deal with. This is not free. This does not come without performance cost.

 

3) Reliability: Server connection go boom, so does in game VOIP. 3rd party VOIP often stays up even when a player gets D/C'd since it does not share the same network topology as the game.

 

In game proximity VOIP is mechanically inferior to third party external VOIP in all "the buck stops here" ways. In exchange, you get a tad more immersion. Not worth the cost.

 

Overkill, I totally agree with 1 and 2 as potentially being too much to implement it.

That said, if you read, we've all agreed that PVC is not a replacement for 3rd party VOIP (which is primarily premade-group focused), but rather a supplement to it.

 

Yeah its totally immersive until you hear someone yelling profanity's at you or blasting music into their mics. Can say what ya want but the drawback's will always outweigh anything good that may come of it IMO.

 

And then that person gets muted and you add him to your KoS list.  In a game like this where people have to make friends just to survive, I think you'll see that behavior slowly get punished away.

 

Also I'm gonna quote your "drawbacks will always outweigh any good that may come out of it," and come find you in 10 years :P That's just an incredibly narrow viewpoint haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was obviously just talking about this one feature in a video game. I'm always open to new ideas and evolving the genre (its why I'm following and backing this game) but I'm also a realist and I think it is indeed a bit naïve to think that in an online game that everyone will just get along and the bad folks will just go away because we will drive them out with our overwhelming positivity! lol this your first day on the internet?

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was obviously just talking about this one feature in a video game. I'm always open to new ideas and evolving the genre (its why I'm following and backing this game) but I'm also a realist and I think it is indeed a bit naïve to think that in an online game that everyone will just get along and the bad folks will just go away because we will drive them out with our overwhelming positivity! lol this your first day on the internet?

 

I think people just forget this is a PvP game and we are all bad people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...