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Procedural Generated Worlds = Bland & Boring?

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This has been bugging me for awhile. Obviously having procedural generated worlds is a positive for the developers when it comes to time and resources. However how will this effect the uniqueness of each world when it comes to visuals? Most games I've played that use PG landscapes are very one-note, bland and pretty generic. Good examples are Pathfinder Online and Landmark. Both of which use PG world building, and both lack in the uniqueness department when it comes to landscape. 

 

How much uniqueness will we see in the campaign worlds when it comes to terrain? Rivers, Motes, Canyons, Bridges, Hills, Caves, Swamps, Deserts? Will each campaign feature a different tileset, or will we end up with a generic one across all the worlds with slightly different positioning for POIs? Will there be interesting "monuments" and/or land deformations  to fight at, or will we end up with the bland feel of the above mentioned games (or even worse, ESO).

 

Basically, Many games that utilize PG give off the "lazy" feel when it comes to landscape. I'm hoping CF doesn't fall in to that category.

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They're not randomly generating terrain, they're randomly compiling terrain.

 

Terrain is like set pieces, cut into tetris-puzzle. the worlds randomly tetris-up with the pieces.

 

So you might see set pieces like a big mountain, and then next to the big mountain is the stripper pole monolith.

 

 

So random, but not crazy random.

Edited by Zomnivore

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Crowfall worlds aren't going to use procedurally generated terrain. Crowfall worlds are going to use procedurally generated combinations of handcrafted parcels/tiles.

 

Very different effect.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Yeah this will definitely bother me. When I think back to WoW with all the hand-crafted landscape, I remember climbing every handcrafted mountain when I was mining, or flying over all those trees when I was going from city to city, or skinning a mob while kneeling in the grass.....

 

No, wait, I don't. I remember hating the landscape because I'm still looking for the 6th feather I need for the last 15 minutes of killing. I always wonder what kind of drugs people are on to spend more than 15 minutes admiring a landscape. GW was my first game after Shadowbane. I ran around taking screenshots for 10 minutes and then I played the game.

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Considering the amount of resources the team has to work with and how much they went on about PvE being too expensive, we will most likely have a very lacking diversity of parcel pieces.  Although I'm not particularly worried about it since the number of assets will only increase with time.

 

I don't think we are going to have very diverse Campaign worlds on either alpha, beta, or launch.  They are churning out character models at a pretty relaxed pace as is.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Crowfall worlds aren't going to use procedurally generated terrain. Crowfall worlds are going to use procedurally generated combinations of handcrafted parcels/tiles.

 

Very different effect.

Yeah the tech I think has evolved over the years. The assets themselves are hand crafted, like trees, ruins, textures etc but the generation just places them and effects the landscapes and such.

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No, wait, I don't. I remember hating the landscape because I'm still looking for the 6th feather I need for the last 15 minutes of killing.

 

LOL that is so true !!!

 

Yes its cool to have handcrafted landscape but the game play is what count the most for me.

 

Probably while alpha and beta and maybe at launch we will see alot of common area, like same structures and mountain but with some times ACe will add alot of variety to the PG system so that we wont feel playing the same map over and over again.

Edited by LeWiSS

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The exciting variations will be how each world is put together. Sure you might see the same mountain range in 2 campaigns but one was by a lake the other is by a road side.

 

This will make gameplay and each campaign unique even If the type of terrain is similar.


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Yeah this will definitely bother me. When I think back to WoW with all the hand-crafted landscape, I remember climbing every handcrafted mountain when I was mining, or flying over all those trees when I was going from city to city, or skinning a mob while kneeling in the grass.....

 

No, wait, I don't. I remember hating the landscape because I'm still looking for the 6th feather I need for the last 15 minutes of killing. I always wonder what kind of drugs people are on to spend more than 15 minutes admiring a landscape. GW was my first game after Shadowbane. I ran around taking screenshots for 10 minutes and then I played the game.

 

I'm glad that second paragraph happened, because I was about to say it's kinda rude to bring the good stuff to class and not share it with everyone. :) 

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A delightful developer post that some of us might have missed :

 

"Yes, the "seasons" concept does throw an odd curve-ball at traditional biome-focused approach.  So instead of making a series of different areas that are static, instead we're going to start with one base type (think of the terrain you see in most fantasy movies -- country side, hills and forests that are typically shot in England, Ireland, Scotland or New Zealand).   We create that as a base, and then use the parcel system to craft unique (contiguous) terrain elements on top of it: mountain ranges, winding rivers, enormous cliffs and giant chasms... and, of course, man-made elements like roads and ruins.  

 

Then we need to create seasonal adjustments, so that you can see the effect of Winter (and the Hunger) approaching across the World.  

 

The system is similar to Shadowbane in some ways, but it's much more flexible.  SB used a series of nested elliptical zones, so the hierarchy was something like this:

 

giant ellipse (the ocean) >> large ellipse (one continent or island) >> medium ellipse (timberland forest) >> small ellipse (grobold camp)

 

It wasn't really possible to do a curving river, or a jagged mountain range -- you were limited to elliptical shapes.  

 

In this system, the parcels are like tetris pieces, so you can mix them / match them / rotate them / slot them together however you like, to create more intricate patterns.  In the Campaign Worlds, this will be done automatically, which (fingers crossed!) will give us the variation and exploration of procedurally-generated worlds, but with the polish that can only be achieved when you allow an amazing art team crafting an area by hand."

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5986-developers-are-quiet/?p=150295

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Crowfall worlds aren't going to use procedurally generated terrain. Crowfall worlds are going to use procedurally generated combinations of handcrafted parcels/tiles.

 

Very different effect.

^This and I fully expect the CF art team to continue developing new parcel designs so that we eventually get even more variation in campaign worlds.

I just hope ACE has a subroutine that makes water flow logically over each watershed on a landmass (no infinite loop rivers, please).


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Although Crowfall will be using Parcels to procedurally puzzle-piece the campaign worlds together, I think to minecraft when I think of procedurally generated worlds and rarely would I get bored of exploring those newly generated worlds. Seeing the mountains and crevasses, the deserts, and tundras, how different they were and how unique they could be always thrilled me. I'm hoping that the same effect can be evoked here in Crowfall.

 

I personally think if they got to a point in funding where they could have a single person, or a small team just dedicated to creating one new parcel at a time and introducing it sneakily into the game, to continue to generate that feeling of awe when you climb a hill and see something you've never seen before. 

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I am really glad that the world is going to be pretty procedurally generated. The thing I don't want is to have an ending world that is always the same! When I've played World of Warcraft for a long time the terrain can get kind of boring, if they their expansion packs the players would be at immense loss.

 

If you have played it just think of Minecraft! Stepping into a new world of Minecraft is exciting every time and you can explore and explore and explore without every reaching the end of the earth. You can't know (without going into the code) whether your on a large island, on a continent or etc. There was one time while playing Minecraft where a couple of players and I were occupying a valley and building. We had decided we wanted to create a completely monster free zone. If you cross over to the top of the mountains and looked over you would -seem- to see that the land went on for, what we might as well have perceived as: FOREVER. So I naturally decided that for this project it would be helpful to build a wall and I was not going to weakly do the job instead, I was going to make a spectacular wall! The wall which I would then refer from then on as "THE WALL" was higher than any other structure, it had battlements, it had an inside that was lit, it had gate houses and guard towers and chests full of food and weapons and extra stone in case part of the wall was damaged or broken by a creeper. "THE WALL" was quite a marvel. Then I got to the highest tower and enhanced my seeing distance in the graphics option. I discovered we were on an island who's end was only a short distance from my wall... thus... the wall... was just redundant... and we just put some torches a little bit away...

 

The most jolly adventures in Minecraft are when you discover a mine. You don't know whats down there, certainly a lot of loot! But... usually monsters too.......... sometimes they aren't so jolly.

 

MY POINT IS: That each world is going to be original! That not all other procedurally generated worlds are "bland" and I am truly, utterly, and totally reverent and thankful that the worlds are not going to be the same each time. If they were the same... then... well a Crowfall Fan Wiki would post the spawn rates of every monster, material, and item on a database and people would just stand around as the "min/max", if I want to be an accountant I will do it in real life... and get paid for it. THIS WILL TRULY MAKE IT AN ADVENTURE!

 

And believe me I can add a storm of adventuring anecdotes... this time when I was playing WoW and I climbed a mountain and fell into demonic valley of Ashenvale with a friend and we were torn to pieces because we were 10-15 levels lower than them. We required the rescue of my elder brother's friend to heroically charge into the valley of shadow and... depravity and save us. :3 .... There I go again...

Edited by CharlestheRammer

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I'm going to hate being thrust into a new map every time a new campaign starts.  Having to map it out every time and figure out the the lay of land.  Establish fortifications and scout camps to know where my enemies are.  Information trade map points that people haven't discovered for harvesting.

 

It's going to get so stale not knowing where my enemies could be coming from.

 

I never wanted to be an explorer and I don't want my games to treat me like Christopher Columbus trying to discover India trade routes.  I'd rather get on the A train and know that I'll be at my destination in 30 minutes or my ticket is half price.

 

/squint


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Been around the MMO Block...


Sardoni

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I'm going to hate being thrust into a new map every time a new campaign starts.  Having to map it out every time and figure out the the lay of land.  Establish fortifications and scout camps to know where my enemies are.  Information trade map points that people haven't discovered for harvesting.

 

It's going to get so stale not knowing where my enemies could be coming from.

 

I never wanted to be an explorer and I don't want my games to treat me like Christopher Columbus trying to discover India trade routes.  I'd rather get on the A train and know that I'll be at my destination in 30 minutes or my ticket is half price.

 

/squint

Yeah.. and that pvp is going to be custard boring after awhile also.

 

And SIEGES. I mean come on. Maybe one or two times, but after that it will suck.

 

Crafting sound like a bore also. If we have to make new gear all the time, because we lose the old gear.

 

 

Basically, this game will suck. Here have my money.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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I'm going to hate being thrust into a new map every time a new campaign starts.  Having to map it out every time and figure out the the lay of land.  Establish fortifications and scout camps to know where my enemies are.  Information trade map points that people haven't discovered for harvesting.

 

It's going to get so stale not knowing where my enemies could be coming from.

 

I never wanted to be an explorer and I don't want my games to treat me like Christopher Columbus trying to discover India trade routes.  I'd rather get on the A train and know that I'll be at my destination in 30 minutes or my ticket is half price.

 

/squint

 

I think maybe a RTS-style PvP sandbox MMO kind of game really isn't for you.


Member of The BlackHand Order

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