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Artcraft get a free HTC Vive, I mean why not?!


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I think the lock would be sufficient (that's locking everyone, not just VR players, into first person).  But in terms of delay, there'd have to be significant enhancements to the current tech.  The dual streaming (via 'rear-view mirror') would likely add to the delay problem.

 

Actual play-ability is going to come down to how significant the delay is to the user interacting (controls) with the game.  The game is going to be intensive, fortunately most of the devices are only streaming video information so I think most of this will inevitably be overcome.

 

Now with regard to devices, I have serious doubts in mobile phone driven VR as the actual future.  This isn't to say it won't be the most popular option, as most consumers will likely get there hands on this tech via mobile phones.  As a programmer and tinker myself, the device has too many other priorities going on that could very easily override the VR function.  You could argue for a dedicated mode, but I can assure you that there are functions of the phone that will not be overridden at any level.  We're talking BS carrier functions, emergency service functions, and the simple fact that the device will have to function as a phone first, period.  Edit: And as phones stand currently, resource management will be a big problem.  It works well in the current iteration, but as we add more tech, the resource management will progressively get worse.

 

I do agree that for now any mobile phone integration would be sub par. As far as dedicated solutions such as the HTC Vive or the Occulus CV should have latency that is close to the average LCD monitor 15~30ms, hopefully. Of course the players with dedicated gaming monitors with 2~ms latency would have a slight edge, but I am not sure how much that would matter in MMO style combat. Usually they can forgive a bit of lag without dragging you down. With the use of stuff like global cooldowns etc. Not sure how Crowfall will work on that front.

 

All the more reason for ACE to get the free dev kit from Valve and being able to test without spending money to acquire one, as it seems the main problem people have with VR implementation is the cost of it. Any way to bring it down is a plus in my book.

 

Yeah the rear mirror thing might not work unless ACE can integrate it in a single stream somehow, but that's way past my technical knowledge.

 

Edit: Also I feel that a rear view mirror would be immersion breaking. Which defeats the purpose of VR in the first place... Unless our character would wear a helmet mounter mirror?!

 

Bicyclist_with_a_rearview_mirror_attache

Edited by Argasoth
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...

 

All the more reason for ACE to get the free dev kit from Valve and being able to test without spending money to acquire one, as it seems the main problem people have with VR implementation is the cost of it. Any way to bring it down is a plus in my book.

...

 

Oh absolutely.  ACE should be grabbing all the dev kits they can get their hands on, reasonably.  There's no reason not to, if VR was in their vision and they obviously considered it because it was a pledge goal.  Even if I started developing VR hardware, they should have my kit for pure in house testing.  Granted, finances are an issue here, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't take a few contributions to acquire them.  Besides, any VR that wants CF under their belt should donate them; Tested and approved stamps.

Edited by toteofmagik

"Where there is unity there is always victory." -- Publilius Syrus

"If there weren't luck involved, I would win every time." -- Phil Hellmuth
"A good soldier does not fight because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- G. K. Chesterton
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Oh absolutely.  ACE should be grabbing all the dev kits they can get their hands on, reasonably.  There's no reason not to, if VR was in their vision and they obviously considered it because it was a pledge goal.  Even if I started developing VR hardware, they should have my kit for pure in house testing.  Granted, finances are an issue here, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't take a few contributions to acquire them.  Besides, any VR that wants CF under their belt should donate them; Tested and approved stamps.

It's funny that you’re taking this stance now, after everything you've said against VR and the benefits it can bring to Crowfall. When by your own admission, you aren't even aware of the current state of VR technology. It gives the impression that any lip service you provide in favour of VR now will be a way for you to hobble the idea later, once you start trying to find reasons why a particular VR headset would be unsuitable for Crowfall. So, while it's fortunate you’re at last willing to concede that a free HTC Vive is a good idea I can't help but think you'd be attacking the device the moment ACE starts talking seriously ingratiating it into Crowfall.

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Oh absolutely.  ACE should be grabbing all the dev kits they can get their hands on, reasonably.  There's no reason not to, if VR was in their vision and they obviously considered it because it was a pledge goal.  Even if I started developing VR hardware, they should have my kit for pure in house testing.  Granted, finances are an issue here, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't take a few contributions to acquire them.  Besides, any VR that wants CF under their belt should donate them; Tested and approved stamps.

I would agree but only when its time to implement and test that feature of the game when it was already planned. In no way should they take extra time or money for VR development. They had a stretch goal, they raised money for it. Do that and no extra.

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I would agree but only when its time to implement and test that feature of the game when it was already planned. In no way should they take extra time or money for VR development. They had a stretch goal, they raised money for it. Do that and no extra.

The important thing is to make sure that VR support is developed right alongside the rest of Crowfall. After all, Crowfall is set the launch in 2016, after consumer ready VR headsets have had months at retail. It's essentially that ACE gets VR support right, to gain the loyalty of VR players looking to play the first VRMMORPG. Crowfall has the opportunity here to become the first in a whole new genre of RPG, all thanks to VR support.

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I would agree but only when its time to implement and test that feature of the game when it was already planned. In no way should they take extra time or money for VR development. They had a stretch goal, they raised money for it. Do that and no extra.

I agree. VR is integrated into the Unity engine. That will likely be the extent of VR support that CF will have so I doubt they'll do anything regarding VR until the game is largely ready to roll out.

"Where there is unity there is always victory." -- Publilius Syrus

"If there weren't luck involved, I would win every time." -- Phil Hellmuth
"A good soldier does not fight because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- G. K. Chesterton
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I think maybe VR could work pretty well even with 3rd-person view, really. It wouldn't be AS immersive, but if it replaced your mouse functionality and not just your screen, it could still make for an interesting experience, I think. I dunno, though, I guess then you'd have to have some room around you to rotate. Unless you used mouse-edge-scrolling-style functionality to turn your view.

 

Of course, I'm personally not going to be very excited about playing an MMO via VR until I can actually use body motion (think the Wii, or Microsoft Kinect, on steroids) to perform actions/commands in-game. When I can aim my bow with my face, and perform an arrow-nocking motion to draw my bow, and a sensor glove on my hand detects when my fingers perform the "release-arrow" motion, my bow fires, THEN sign me up for VR. :)

 

^^^ Not a joke. o_o

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I think maybe VR could work pretty well even with 3rd-person view, really. It wouldn't be AS immersive, but if it replaced your mouse functionality and not just your screen, it could still make for an interesting experience, I think. I dunno, though, I guess then you'd have to have some room around you to rotate. Unless you used mouse-edge-scrolling-style functionality to turn your view.

 

Of course, I'm personally not going to be very excited about playing an MMO via VR until I can actually use body motion (think the Wii, or Microsoft Kinect, on steroids) to perform actions/commands in-game. When I can aim my bow with my face, and perform an arrow-nocking motion to draw my bow, and a sensor glove on my hand detects when my fingers perform the "release-arrow" motion, my bow fires, THEN sign me up for VR. :)

 

^^^ Not a joke. o_o

 

Valve has plans to release some motion based controllers (one for each hand) related to the HTC Vive.  We'll just have to wait and see how effective/accurate/practical they are.

"Where there is unity there is always victory." -- Publilius Syrus

"If there weren't luck involved, I would win every time." -- Phil Hellmuth
"A good soldier does not fight because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- G. K. Chesterton
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I agree. VR is integrated into the Unity engine. That will likely be the extent of VR support that CF will have so I doubt they'll do anything regarding VR until the game is largely ready to roll out.

You should have more confidence in ACE's skill and ambition as a developer. Integrated VR support with Unity 5 is only the beginning, a strong foundation for any developer who wants to tailor their game towards an immersive VR experience. Indeed, to get VR right ACE needs to start working on VR support right alongside the rest of the game, to make sure that VR players have a complete UI that makes sense for VR. Do any less as you suggest would hobble VR support, a failure of ACE to keep their promise to the Crowfall community; fortunately, ACE cares about their reputation, they've being given VR support the full attention it deserves.

 

Valve has plans to release some motion based controllers (one for each hand) related to the HTC Vive.  We'll just have to wait and see how effective/accurate/practical they are.

Actually, Valve plans to use a series of remote sensors to track a person’s physical movement within a pre-defined space. You walk in the physical world and correspondingly your VR avatar moves in the same way. It's an interesting and one ACE will have to carefully consider, alongside other VR headsets and controller set-ups. Suffice to say, although you may not realise it yet, the old main-stay of the keyboard and mouse might not be the most popular way to play Crowfall. As the popularity of VR headsets and unique controller set-ups quickly prove to be an advantage with Crowfall as the world's first VRMMORPG.

Edited by Kintor
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Suffice to say, although you may not realise it yet, the old main-stay of the keyboard and mouse might not be the most popular way to play Crowfall. As the popularity of VR headsets and unique controller set-ups quickly prove to be an advantage with Crowfall as the world's first VRMMORPG.

Ok bro xd

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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ok so after reading this WHOLE thread can I just say 2 things

 

1. Kintor I love your enthusiasm for VR and how it COULD and might! change gaming as we know it which is fantastic but you have not and can not give any tangible evidence of this AT ALL. Jihan actually in the first 4-5 pages of this thread addresses you properly and you avoid any question he asks you and hilariously he doesn't even say that VR is bad even though you state he does Numerous times.

 

2. This is Directly at KINTOR just stop the player. Admit that you have no base foundation of how VR will improve mmorpgs you want it too and guess what that's fantastic but there is 0 and I mean 0 evidence to say that it will IMO I hope it does but I just don't know so get off your high horse man and just say I hope and stop saying will because guess what no1 knows if it actually will have some humility and admit that its a wish not a fact that VRmmorpgs will be a thing I.

 

I was really hoping from the OP that a real discussion was going on but wow its just clap trap spouting of utter conjecture and finger pointing and hilariously most from you KINTOR

 

Oh PS. Jihan high five to you sure and atleast a +2 for the constructive way u posted just a shame that people cant read without climbing in there respective safe zones lashing out with dribble

Edited by Bremmen

Hey just Shout Bremmen and he will, Rise and Destroy the people you wish decimated :o

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Ok bro xd

It's true; VR offers exciting new possibilities with how people play games. There are many ground-breaking VR interface methods being developed right now; including some by major electronics manufactures like Samsun and HTC, just to illustrate the serious amounts of money being put into VR research. These interfaces are all quite varied: some use motion controls, others remote sensors, a couple of companies are even looking into haptic suits. Anyway, the point is that with the rise of VR the old keyboard and mouse set-up may not be the ideal way Crowfall. The existence of Crowfall as the world's first VRMMORPG necessitates that new ways be found to play the game, to make best use of immersive VR gameplay. Fortunately, VR headsets like the HTC Vive and the Oculus Rift should include proprietary interface drivers. Meaning that ACE's promised VR support for Crowfall should these new controller methods already taken into account.

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Valve has plans to release some motion based controllers (one for each hand) related to the HTC Vive.  We'll just have to wait and see how effective/accurate/practical they are.

 

That's actually a pretty cool idea. The Kinect is actually a pretty awesome device (especially the 2.0 version), but one of its biggest problems is that it has a lot of trouble picking up any movement that isn't on the macro level (arm swinging, silhouette changes, etc.). I always thought that, as well as it works for games like Dance Central, if they just made some kind of glove to accompany it (to detect hand-only or even individual finger movements, and feed that to the system), you could make some AMAZING games, even with just that.

 

I know that's all just control-related, but, I look forward to the day when that kind of thing accompanies VR into the gaming industry. Just think like, Mech Warrior, but with full, accurate motion controls.

 

It's kinda like the tech in Mass Effect. In the lore, I mean. Their omnitool interfaces were holographic projections, but the subdermal implants in their hand tracked the motion of their hand and fingers relative to the virtual space of the holographic interface (much like a mouse tracks your cursor location on a PC desktop). I realize it'll be a LONG time before we have anything like that, heh. But, the concept of how it would work is still pretty simple.

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your posts here are like eternal kingdoms..

So, it's pretty obvious that you don't actually have any counter-arguments to the idea that Crowfall will use a variety of new interface methods, beyond the old keyboard and mouse set-up, thanks to the nature of immersive VR gaming. Indeed, you may have reduced your posts to petty insults but you can't stop VR from becoming a key part of Crowfall. Take a look around, VR is ready to take the world by storm, changing forever. Understand how VR works and how VR players will have an advantage in PVP combat, then might you see why ACE wise wise to promise VR support for Crowfall.

 

Edit:

That's actually a pretty cool idea.

Except, you don't understand how the HTC Vive's controllers will actually work; as I've already explained, the HTC Vive uses remove sensors in conjunction with handheld controllers to accurately measure a user's physical movement. You walk in physical world and at the same time you walk in a virtual world, provided that is stay within a set area so that the sensors can track you. It just goes to show that VR is far more advanced then you realise; many of the technological achievements you talk about as being hypothetical are actually already here and being experimented with by developers all over the world. In this manner there is most certainly the cutting-edge technology needed to allow VR players to interact with Crowfall at a competitive level.

Edited by Kintor
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I guess we'll just have to see what they come up with, and how soon.

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I guess we'll just have to see what they come up with, and how soon.

Well, the first wave of consumer ready VR headsets will be released by the end of this year and the start of next year. From that point things will really start to take off, as more and more companies jump on the VR bandwagon. What began as an unusually successful Kickstarter project is about to become a whole new industry.

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Well, we'll just have to see how far they get by the time Crowfall releases, 8P

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