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Customizing your kingdom: Official discussion thread

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This is very good stuff.

 

I like how EK is just important enough to rouse passion into the campaigns.

 

I am still a little confused as to the mechanism for how guilds/nations will form their kingdom...  It appears that the "Guild leader" will be the one to own the EK and be the monarch, and then she would assign land, space, and titles to her guildees dependent upon their rank, but it does seem a little "ad hoc".

 

For example, as a subscriber, I have my own EK, but my guild has a main EK as well.  Do I build on both of them, or best to concentrate all my efforts on the guild EK?  Will it be an advantage for a particular guild to have lots of various kingdoms to go to, or one superbig one?

 

From what we know, guilds will assign land precisely as you say. It is really up to the guild's policies to administer the land which to an outsider might indeed seem ad hoc.

 

Since buffs/thralls/merchants and resource parcels are affect only the one kingdom, it seems to me concentrating on the guild EK is the best choice. You can place about 20-50 keeps on one kingdom which should be enough for even larger guilds. 

 

I think that if you are part of a guild, you might not want to place all your parcels of land (because maybe other people want to place some parcels also if its a big guild, or because you have too many parcels of one type) within the EK of the guild, which means you can use your personal EK as a 'storage' of sorts to place leftover parcels you have.

Edited by Kalsomir

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You seem to be assuming I have a problem with this system. I don't. I'm not complaining about anything at all. And my point remains the same whether you use your own EK or someone else's. My point isn't about you (individually) needing to upgrade your personal EK.

 

I'm assuming no such thing. You seem to have a problem with the difference between something granting you an advantage, and a level playing field in which advantages are allowed to circumstantially exist. I'm simply explaining something you don't seem to understand. If you do understand that, then you seem to be arbitrarily pointing things out.

 

I realize what your point was. But you indicated that you believed we did not have any official information regarding simply using someone else's EK. I'm fairly certain, now that I think about it, that a building owner, for example, can grant other people access to his building. So, again, with the exception of a human desire for payment, nothing in the game will mandate that you must spend your own time and resources on any EK just to be able to craft items outside of a campaign to then import into a campaign.

 

But, that aside, as someone else pointed out, if you finish a campaign with 100 Embargo slots full of stuff, and you won, then BOOM! You get 100 slots of embargo stuff. Sure, I can't tell you exactly what those 100 example slots would contain, since we don't have "tangible" campaign rulesets in place yet. BUT, we know that we can craft in campaigns, and we know that we can put equipment and resources into Embargo. So, why would ACE decide to let us craft 100 swords in a campaign, put them into our Embargo, win so that they come out of the campaign with us, then prevent us from ever taking those swords back into a campaign that allows 100 swords to be imported? In other words, what reason is there to assume that they're going to design things such that deliberately-set rules and factors are going to be paradoxical?

 

If you can think of a possibility, then apply that possibility across the board.

 

I don't think you're whining, for what it's worth, and I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but you're making it very difficult for people to help you understand -- as best we can at the moment (things could change since we're in the middle of the development cycle,) -- how things will generally work. Your responses keep coming across as "No, EKs definitely do what ACE said they wouldn't do, because (insert overly-specific set of circumstances here)." And we're telling you "what if that didn't happen, though?", and you seem to have this idea "Yeah, but what if it DID?!"

 

Yes, import rules COULD make absolutely no sense alongside "you don't need an EK to be on a level playing field with someone else in a campaign." But, we could also all have health to determine how much damage we can take before dying, only to end up with everyone having infinite health. Or a single character could have the ability to level an entire city, in a campaign in which thousands of players will be fighting thousands of other players. Shy of a blatant disregard for intelligent design on ACE's part, however, these things will not occur. We could even still point them out, though. Simply observe them as truths. "Hey, if crafting in your EK always allows you to have better things than not-doing-so, then that would cause a problem."

 

But, that's different from saying "Yeah, but this does give you an advantage." And it may even seem like semantics, but when you're calling out ACE based on their word choice, the semantics kind of matter by default. As I said before, taking 100 awesome things into a 100-thing-import campaign world while your opponent voluntarily brings 100 pebbles is not a system granting an advantage. It's player choice granting one. As it stands, though, you can craft things in a campaign, and you can take things out of a campaign, and you can take things INTO a campaign. So, it's reasonable to conclude that you can just skip EK crafting all-together and still end up with things to import into an optional, heavy-import campaign. Even if you couldn't, though, and EK crafting was the only way to get spiffy stuff to import, that still wouldn't definitively provide an advantage, because playing in a campaign with import rules doesn't give you any advantage over playing in a campaign without import rules. I mean, that'd be like saying "Oh, this campaign world only allows 3 Archetypes into it. So, the people who play as those 3 Archetypes have an advantage." No, because the game isn't forcing you to compete with them under those same rules, but without something they have.

 

Drastically varying campaign rulesets are kind of a core tenant of this game. Never did anyone say that no matter what campaign you enter at any given point in time, no one will ever have an advantage over you.


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I realize what your point was. But you indicated that you believed we did not have any official information regarding simply using someone else's EK. I

 

Lephys, go back to that post of mine and read the post I was quoting (and the post that the poster was quoting). When I said we don't have official information I was referring to his first sentence, not his second sentence.  I was talking about us not having official word on if you needed to have specific buildings or create specific constructions in order to craft items. That's why I posted the quote from the FAQ about required crafting stations.

 

I was saying nothing about whose EK you could use and absolutely zero statements I've made in this thread are meant to imply that any individual needs to do anything in their individual EK. My referring to EKs is EKs in general (as in gameplay outside of campaigns). Yours, mine, your guild's, some friends, or a public one are all interchangeable when I refer to the EK.

 

 

 

But, that's different from saying "Yeah, but this does give you an advantage." And it may even seem like semantics, but when you're calling out ACE based on their word choice, the semantics kind of matter by default. As I said before, taking 100 awesome things into a 100-thing-import campaign world while your opponent voluntarily brings 100 pebbles is not a system granting an advantage. It's player choice granting one. As it stands, though, you can craft things in a campaign, and you can take things out of a campaign, and you can take things INTO a campaign. So, it's reasonable to conclude that you can just skip EK crafting all-together and still end up with things to import into an optional, heavy-import campaign. Even if you couldn't, though, and EK crafting was the only way to get spiffy stuff to import, that still wouldn't definitively provide an advantage, because playing in a campaign with import rules doesn't give you any advantage over playing in a campaign without import rules. I mean, that'd be like saying "Oh, this campaign world only allows 3 Archetypes into it. So, the people who play as those 3 Archetypes have an advantage." No, because the game isn't forcing you to compete with them under those same rules, but without something they have.

 

 

And again, this is simply putting words into my mouth. In no way am I "calling ACE out". LOL. I'm perfectly happy with their decisions and what they've told us so far. Again, like you say later, they've never said anything about every part of the game being balanced, so why again are people having such a problem with the EK being a benefit to some campaigns? In fact, I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people that are so opposed to gameplay in the EKs are even spending so much time in a thread devoted to the EK

 

Yes, you can skip crafting all together and buy only from other people. You could do so in pretty much any MMO. It's really a point that's completely irrelevant to this issue here. To Reiterate, as I've done in almost every reply for a few pages now. This is entirely in response to a question posed "Why should I care about anything in the EK if will have no impact on the game"?

 

I gave reasons why people will care about the EK. Does that mean that everybody is going to care about it? No. It means that people that do choose to participate in the EK game will have real, tangible benefits to doing so, that they can take to the campaign. That they will have real reasons to care about it, even if they are more interested in playing in campaigns. And ACE has never said otherwise. I'm not saying that they are wrong, or lying about anything that they've said. The only thing I've said is that much of what they've said has been vague. It's true they've said "you don't have to play the EK if you don't want". They've never said you'd have the exact same experience as someone who did, if you choose not to. And I've said pretty much the same thing.

 

Drastically varying campaign rulesets are kind of a core tenant of this game. Never did anyone say that no matter what campaign you enter at any given point in time, no one will ever have an advantage over you.

 

 

I agree. But like most of the responses to me in this thread, people seem to be arguing against things I've never said. 

Edited by ColdSlither

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Isn't all if this a moot point because you aren't restricted to your own ek? Even if y

Certain buildings or buffs have to exist its a fairly safe bet that someone in your faction/alliance /guild will have whats needed.

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Isn't all if this a moot point because you aren't restricted to your own ek? Even if y

Certain buildings or buffs have to exist its a fairly safe bet that someone in your faction/alliance /guild will have whats needed.

 

Not really a moot point at all. It actually IS part of the point I've been making. It's just some people seem to be ignoring it.

 

If it's needed or seen as something players want, then the EKs "matter" for the campaign. People are confusing my giving reasons that EKs matter with the idea that it has to be your personal EK. Again- I consider "the EK" everything outside of campaigns, which is the way I understand that it actually is defined. Your personal EK is actually just referred to as your personal kingdom, within the EK, I believe.

 

EK - Eternal Kingdoms

Everybody starts with a Personal Kingdom within the EK.

Edited by ColdSlither

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Not really a moot point at all. It actually IS part of the point I've been making. It's just some people seem to be ignoring it.

 

If it's needed or seen as something players want, then the EKs "matter" for the campaign.

I would rather EKs matter more not less, as long as you aren't required to be a monarch and you get equal access to crafting and buffs by being a tenant.

I want to see player made cities and in campaign worlds that's not possible, so that just leaves EKs.  I also want to see EKs tied to campaigns a little more cohesively.

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/6499-meaningful-ek-contribution-to-campaigns/


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Lephys, go back to that post of mine and read the post I was quoting (and the post that the poster was quoting). When I said we don't have official information I was referring to his first sentence, not his second sentence.  I was talking about us not having official word on if you needed to have specific buildings or create specific constructions in order to craft items. That's why I posted the quote from the FAQ about required crafting stations.

My apologies. I missed his actual post, and your quote read "besides, we can just use other people's EKs to craft in." (paraphrased). Then, your immediate response was "This hasn't been specifically confirmed." I applied "this" to that sentence, but realize that you were referring to info not actually inside that quote (or only referenced in that quote, before the part about using other people's EKs).

 

Sorry about that.

 

I agree. But like most of the responses to me in this thread, people seem to be arguing against things I've never said.

I just did a double-check, and this is actually surprisingly true. 8P

 

Again, my apologies. The context of surrounding posts has made many of your posts seem to entail a certain point, but they actually do not technically state or claim those points.

 

The origin of my posts was to clarify that the EK is not the source of an advantage when it comes to imports, as even without EKs ever existing, you still have a full advantage-disadvantage spectrum with imports, based on what different players decide to voluntarily bring into campaigns with them. Basically, I don't see the significance of pointing out circumstantial advantages when the opportunity playing field is level.

 

I would also separate out mere interaction with EKs and the actual development of one (building of your own structures/land/etc. on anyone's EK), as the number of people who will flat-out refuse to simply travel to an EK marketplace to buy some goods, but will enter a new campaign with imports, then immediately trade with others for stuff doesn't seem likely to be a large number of people, as such behavior makes no sense. Most of the people talking about not-bothering with EK stuff are referring to spending their own time and resources on the development of EKs. If there are public ones in which you can bring your goods won from campaigns, trade, then head into your next campaign, then I don't see why people would refuse to use those, only to do the exact same thing within a campaign. And, however people get their goods, I don't see why people would enter an import campaign until they felt they had sufficient quality and quantity of goods to import.


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My apologies. I missed his actual post, and your quote read "besides, we can just use other people's EKs to craft in." (paraphrased). Then, your immediate response was "This hasn't been specifically confirmed." I applied "this" to that sentence, but realize that you were referring to info not actually inside that quote (or only referenced in that quote, before the part about using other people's EKs).

 

Sorry about that.

 

 

I just did a double-check, and this is actually surprisingly true. 8P

 

Again, my apologies. The context of surrounding posts has made many of your posts seem to entail a certain point, but they actually do not technically state or claim those points.

 

The origin of my posts was to clarify that the EK is not the source of an advantage when it comes to imports, as even without EKs ever existing, you still have a full advantage-disadvantage spectrum with imports, based on what different players decide to voluntarily bring into campaigns with them. Basically, I don't see the significance of pointing out circumstantial advantages when the opportunity playing field is level.

 

I would also separate out mere interaction with EKs and the actual development of one (building of your own structures/land/etc. on anyone's EK), as the number of people who will flat-out refuse to simply travel to an EK marketplace to buy some goods, but will enter a new campaign with imports, then immediately trade with others for stuff doesn't seem likely to be a large number of people, as such behavior makes no sense. Most of the people talking about not-bothering with EK stuff are referring to spending their own time and resources on the development of EKs. If there are public ones in which you can bring your goods won from campaigns, trade, then head into your next campaign, then I don't see why people would refuse to use those, only to do the exact same thing within a campaign. And, however people get their goods, I don't see why people would enter an import campaign until they felt they had sufficient quality and quantity of goods to import.

 

You sir, or madam, are the first gentleman or gentlewoman in the history of message board arguments. I thank you  :D

 

And I agree with everything you said here. Again, I think people were reading way too much in a few fairly innocent statements I made which were mostly just in response to a flood of "EKs suck and are meaningless wastes of time" posts just to say that there would be game reasons to use them (even for those who like campaigns). 

Edited by ColdSlither

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I still think we are heading for unneeded trouble as long as all EK's are owned by individuals. I hope AC will change their mind and allow a "guild" to own it's own EK, where the monarch is whomever happens to be the guild leader (chosen by whatever method available). But this update is pretty cool. 5k by 5k potential EK? Pretty cool. 


eEvERiW.jpg

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Or a little over 9 1/2 square miles....... :)

For american standards that must seem small.

 

But there's quite some "kingdoms" in the past, that weren't as big as a american state.

 

I will wreck havoc in my kingdom xD.... ruleset.

Leave all your belongings here, don't even try to run. Your now my eternal slave!

 

Who said, i cant put players in thrall slots!

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The issue is that Artcraft seems to be spending a lot of manpower and development time on something that might aswell not exist. They could just make the EK's completely static housing worlds and it would be pretty much have the same outcome for the vast majority of players.

 

They seem to be investing into making this elaborate system that will most likely end up being completely nullified by people just grouping up into a few "super EK's".

 

Sure, it's a cool system and it looks awesome, but it will probably end up only being used by a very few select people who are lucky enough to end up as an owner of one of those "super EK's".

EKs have a limit to their maximum size. People need to be granted land in an EK in order to set up shop and sell their poorly made socks, so eventually land will run out. More successful/competitive merchants will gravitate toward Monarchs who grant them more land to make their wares more visible, so not only will a few EKs not have room for everyone, but there will be a constant struggle among Monarchs/guilds to hold the public's attention because merchants who feel shafted will take land granted by Monarchs who feel shafted, resulting in rapidly forming EKs that have a lot to offer to compete with established mega-guild EKs.

It's like how the Roman empire happened; a bunch of criminals who felt shafted made their own empire and the empires that were already around suddenly realized that all of their base belong to Rome.

 

On another note, I was wondering if there will be alternate EK skins. For example, what if I don't want a la-la land grassy kingdom? Maybe I want to rule the Alik'r Desert, or perhaps I wanna have a cut-throat merchant kingdom in the heart of the Underdark?

 

Menzo.JPG


x9M7iWc.png?1

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I'm still very confused about what is not in the FAQ (and it is what keeps me from feeling I can decide if I want to fund or not).

 

1. It says "resource parcels" but the term seems to be a bit misleading, as there are no resources at these parcels??

 

2. Is a famland parcel and actual farmland (functionality, crops etc) or merely optical or merely ramping up the number of houses of an adjacent stronghold parcel? In the latter case it might be good to call them not resource parcels but maybe "modifier parcels"?

 

3. It says there will be few of low tier resources actually harvestable in the kingdoms. Are these on resource parcels? Wilderness? Stronghold parcels? Is the number of these resources increasing if the kingdom size increases or constant?

 

4. If I have a private home/house on a parcel owned by someone else and this guy evicts me, what happens to my stuff? Why would I want to risk this and not simply living in my own kingdom and travel to larger kingdoms for trade/crafting? Can only tennants/property owner in that kingdom craft/trade? Is there a tax for people not from the kingdom? How do travel between kingdoms work anyway, is it fee based?

 

5. Is there food and drink (taverns?) or such planned, aka ... besides equipment and maybe some furniture (?) what can we craft?

 

6. If I am inside a campaign and collecting resources ... I have to wait for the campaign to end to know which resources I will end up with correct? Can I craft inside the campaign then at all or only with resources I already had before? Would that mean for crafting I leave the campaign and craft in the kingdom? Am I stuck in the campaign while it lasts? How do I know how much of the resources my kingdom earns will go to me? What happens with upkeep in my kingdom if I'm stuck in a campaign, do I pay in advance? How do I mitigate the risk of loosing the campaign or rather not bringing enough resources home to maintain my kingdom? I've a bit of background in corporate financing lol and this whole setup smells worryingly like project-evaluations with total commitment ... Have you guys talked with people of an investment background to make sure your whole plan is sound in terms of market/investment/project evaluation psychology and dynamics?

It might sound odd but I seriously urge you to go through this to understand how many concurrent campaigns you need, how many people to suggest for a kingdom etc etc to make sure this isn't crashing as a system, as it is very similar to market/evaluation systems for companies/projects from the kingdom/mercantile perspective.

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1. you answered that with your 2nd question... at least that's how I percieved their explanation of "ressource parcels"

 

2. agree, name change might be nice

 

3. probably in the wilderness. I assume he wan chop down trees, mine stone etc pretty much everywhere. The quality of these ressources in the EK will be really low. Again... just guessing ;)

 

4. If someone evicts you, all your stuff will be put into your acc bank. That has been mentioned somewhere in the FAQ. No idea about crafting, but there will probably be settings to make forges and other crafting stations public/guild only/private/whatever. Traveling between EKs will most likely work with portals, similar to tree-hopping in SB (guessing again).

 

5. Unknown at this point

 

6. The vast majority of crafting will be done in the campaigns. You can only import (with heavy restrictions) the very first time you enter the campaign, and you will only be able to export once the campaign concludes. In the meantime, ALL your equip will come from the campaign itself.

We don't have enough info on upkeep yet to answer the other questions. But you should already make peace with not winning every time... hell maybe you wont win EVER. Some campaigns will have 0% export tules. You'll go "home" with absolutely nothing after 6+ months of fighting.

The main game is in the campaigns. The EK is a glorified trophy room, with miniscule advantages or implications on campaigns.

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