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courant101

Size of Eternal Kingdom

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Its not about the size of the EK its about how you work it....in regards to city design.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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90 acres for your personal estate is still huge if all you're doing there is banking and adjusting your passive training.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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...People are only talking about the EKs right now because that's the most recent thing we've dropped.   The best thing about being involved in the game development process is that you get to see the game come to life.  The worst part is the waiting. 

 

Todd

ACE

 

Actually, it's because people are still the most confused by it.  They understand what player housing is.  They understand that CWs are like selecting a server in traditional MMOs.  But, EKs are something new and people are having a hard time understanding the full concept and purpose to them.  

 

I recommend that your next video on the subject walk the player through the game flow from day 1 through what year 1 or even 2 may look like.  A fast "Use Case" progression so that people can fully understand how an EK relates to CWs and how an EK can evolve over time (e.g. adding fortresses, upgrading keeps, and eventually having a Citadel), along with the benefits an EK could provide a player entering a CW.  This is the visual they're needing at this time.  <_<


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Actually, it's because people are still the most confused by it.  They understand what player housing is.  They understand that CWs are like selecting a server in traditional MMOs.  But, EKs are something new and people are having a hard time understanding the full concept and purpose to them.  

 

I recommend that your next video on the subject walk the player through the game flow from day 1 through what year 1 or even 2 may look like.  A fast "Use Case" progression so that people can fully understand how an EK relates to CWs and how an EK can evolve over time (e.g. adding fortresses, upgrading keeps, and eventually having a Citadel), along with the benefits an EK could provide a player entering a CW.  This is the visual they're needing at this time.  <_<

I would simply suggest talking about the other parts of the game. To keep talking about EK and spending update after update showcasing it, the impression that its much more important then it really is does more harm then good for the overall perception IMO.  So talking about other parts of the game will give a better picture of the game and how everything fits. We have roughly 2 years to go so we just have to wait and play the pick apart every word of every update game till we get a fuller picture of the game.

Edited by pang

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I would simply suggest talking about the other parts of the game. To keep talking about EK and spending update after update showcasing it, the impression that its much more important then it really is does more harm then good for the overall perception IMO.  So talking about other parts of the game will give a better picture of the game and how everything fits. We have roughly 2 years to go so we just have to wait and play the pick apart every word of every update game till we get a fuller picture of the game.

 

There is a reason why they keep revisiting EKs, which is why I lead my suggestion with "next video on this subject".  I do agree that other aspects of the game like disciplines, relics, crafting, mining, and the embargo system would all bring increased meaning and value of the EKs.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Actually, it's because people are still the most confused by it.  They understand what player housing is.  They understand that CWs are like selecting a server in traditional MMOs.  But, EKs are something new and people are having a hard time understanding the full concept and purpose to them.  

 

I recommend that your next video on the subject walk the player through the game flow from day 1 through what year 1 or even 2 may look like.  A fast "Use Case" progression so that people can fully understand how an EK relates to CWs and how an EK can evolve over time (e.g. adding fortresses, upgrading keeps, and eventually having a Citadel), along with the benefits an EK could provide a player entering a CW.  This is the visual they're needing at this time.  <_<

I doubt it would be terribly useful for the dev's to predict what we will be doing in a year with the EK. Yeah, they have a vision of the EK, and know what they'd like players to do, but the game is going to change so much over the next two years that it would almost be a waste of time. I think they are doing pretty well. We're maybe 3 months from the alpha's starting, right?

 

After the rather frenic activity before and directly after the KS, things will drop off quite a bit. If anyone at all cared to ask me, I would suggest they do what I've done: stop visiting the forums five times a day. Cut back to once every other day. It's not like anything earth-shattering will be dropping every single day. It won't hurt to learn about the newest shiny the day after it is revealed. Don't burn yourself out on the game before the dang thing is even made!

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Last week, we dropped two updates: one about Campaign modules and one about EKs.  If you'll notice, we were able to drop more specifics about the latter, because we aren't as afraid of saying the wrong thing and painting ourselves into a corner.  Mistakes are inevitable -- some ideas just play better on a whiteboard. 

 

It's easier to talk about the EKs precisely because they are relatively isolated and encapsulated.  We are reluctant to drop information about skills / powers / discpines / advantages / disadvantages, for instance, because we KNOW these things will change.  Game balance comes at the end of the process, not the beginning -- and it sucks to feel like we need to make a change to make the game better, but "we can't, because we already told the players XYZ."  

 

So instead, we're trying to release things as they settle... because it's a lot more painful to make these adjustments in front of an audience, where every tweak becomes a debate.  

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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Last week, we dropped two updates: one about Campaign modules and one about EKs.  If you'll notice, we were able to drop more specifics about the latter, because we aren't as afraid of saying the wrong thing and painting ourselves into a corner.  Mistakes are inevitable -- some ideas just play better on a whiteboard. 

 

It's easier to talk about the EKs precisely because they are relatively isolated and encapsulated.  We are reluctant to drop information about skills / powers / discpines / advantages / disadvantages, for instance, because we KNOW these things will change.  Game balance comes at the end of the process, not the beginning -- and it sucks to feel like we need to make a change to make the game better, but "we can't, because we already told the players XYZ."  

 

So instead, we're trying to release things as they settle... because it's a lot more painful to make these adjustments in front of an audience, where every tweak becomes a debate.  

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Todd

ACE

Definitely makes sense. Its easy for us to get frustrated about the info we get when its not what we want to hear about but certainly appreciate that you guys need to do it in a way that's best for the game. As ever we'll be here waiting and picking apart every little bit of info you give us, we are crows after all.

Edited by pang

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I doubt it would be terribly useful for the dev's to predict what we will be doing in a year with the EK. Yeah, they have a vision of the EK, and know what they'd like players to do, but the game is going to change so much over the next two years that it would almost be a waste of time. ...

 

Nobody is expecting information on how everyone will use it, they are just confused about the vision with the EKs and how they will evolve and their interdependence with CWs.  Currently, most of the info is about laying out and playing SimKingdoms within the EK and that we need resources from the CW in order to build up the EK.  But, there really hasn't been a clear vision (visually) as to how the EKs will benefit CWs over time.  So, if they're still looking to drop info about EKs to clear things up, I'm only suggesting a time-lapse video... perhaps EK on the left and CWs on the right... illustrating the link between the 2 along with the import/export bonuses and w/e training bonuses within the EK.  Currently, there's still little value to EKs for pvp players to grasp and even look at the store to invest... although they have the $ to do so.

 

With that, there is a very small % of the community that fully grasps the EK vision... even with the current info drops... which really don't bring it back to the CW other than resource leeching.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Last week, we dropped two updates: one about Campaign modules and one about EKs.  If you'll notice, we were able to drop more specifics about the latter, because we aren't as afraid of saying the wrong thing and painting ourselves into a corner.  Mistakes are inevitable -- some ideas just play better on a whiteboard. 

 

It's easier to talk about the EKs precisely because they are relatively isolated and encapsulated.  We are reluctant to drop information about skills / powers / discpines / advantages / disadvantages, for instance, because we KNOW these things will change.  Game balance comes at the end of the process, not the beginning -- and it sucks to feel like we need to make a change to make the game better, but "we can't, because we already told the players XYZ."  

 

So instead, we're trying to release things as they settle... because it's a lot more painful to make these adjustments in front of an audience, where every tweak becomes a debate.  

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Todd

ACE

 

Think about how fast the design can be iterated on by using the power of the hivemind! 

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I think your Manhattan example is off...? Manhattan is 59 km2 in area, per the googles.

 

Todd

 

The red sqaure is 5km x 5km.

 

According to Google, the size is about 87 km^2 and encompasses more than the red area in the picture. Manhattan seems to be 3-4 times the area of the red square, so hopefully I didn't make an error.

 

Edit: Wikipedia gives 59 km^2, since the picture on the google link also includes the water.

Edited by Kalsomir

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I do not know if you know Rio de Janeiro... But for those who know, maybe the example of the south zone can be good...

 

Remember when you saw a pic or a video of the natural wounders of Rio de Janeiro staying at the feet of the Christ the Redeemer? That was the south zone.

 

It has 34.14km² area... Almost the 25km² of an EK... And that's huge for a game!

 

JCTuDf6.jpg

Edited by Merovatis

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I do not know if you know Rio de Janeiro... But for those who know, maybe the example of the south zone can be good...

 

Remember when you saw a pic or a video of the natural wounders of Rio de Janeiro staying at the feet of the Christ the Redeemer? That was the south zone.

 

It has 34.14km² area... Almost the 25km² of an EK... And that's huge for a game!

 

Not that huge for an entire mmo game world, but pretty large for personal housing. Campaigns will be much larger they say.

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/snip

 

With that, there is a very small % of the community that fully grasps the EK vision... even with the current info drops... which really don't bring it back to the CW other than resource leeching.

I agree that there is some confusion out there. But there is also a fair bit of stubbornness too from PvP players who want to deny non-pvp activities will be a valid gameplay choice in CF. And maybe even (/gasp!) fun! As soon as I saw Koster's name, I knew this was not going to be a revival of a solely "hardcore" pvp game. (it get's tiring of putting 'hardcore' in quotes, but I find it endlessly ironic that so many people continue to equate 'hardcore' with being a d-bag in game. In reality, this is just d-baggery, not actually being hardcore.) Koster is known for virtual worlds, and to be involved, there would have to be a fair bit of that in CF. The EK information we've gotten meshes perfectly with the concept of virtual worlds.

 

Honestly, this entire system is so dang close to being a full sandbox. It's only the commitment to keep the EK's a mostly optional part of the game that is holding it back. As long as it's possible for people to log in to the Dying Worlds and never need to see any EK, the larger sandbox circle will be broken. Sure, we'll have a pvp sandbox, and that certainly looks to be interesting, will be fun, and should be a success. I'm fine with the decision to keep the game about pvp, but it's like an itch you can't scratch to see a potentially more diverse game and equally fun game so close, heh.

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I agree that there is some confusion out there. But there is also a fair bit of stubbornness too from PvP players who want to deny non-pvp activities will be a valid gameplay choice in CF. And maybe even (/gasp!) fun! As soon as I saw Koster's name, I knew this was not going to be a revival of a solely "hardcore" pvp game. (it get's tiring of putting 'hardcore' in quotes, but I find it endlessly ironic that so many people continue to equate 'hardcore' with being a d-bag in game. In reality, this is just d-baggery, not actually being hardcore.) Koster is known for virtual worlds, and to be involved, there would have to be a fair bit of that in CF. The EK information we've gotten meshes perfectly with the concept of virtual worlds.

 

Honestly, this entire system is so dang close to being a full sandbox. It's only the commitment to keep the EK's a mostly optional part of the game that is holding it back. As long as it's possible for people to log in to the Dying Worlds and never need to see any EK, the larger sandbox circle will be broken. Sure, we'll have a pvp sandbox, and that certainly looks to be interesting, will be fun, and should be a success. I'm fine with the decision to keep the game about pvp, but it's like an itch you can't scratch to see a potentially more diverse game and equally fun game so close, heh.

I am a big Koster fan...

 

However, he is closer to a consultant than a developer on this project.

He is helping to point out flaws and suggest better ways of doing things.

I am not saying him or his talent is not involved, but the game is being build by others (And not only Todd and Gordon).

 

I was very excited to see Todd and Gordon making a game. 

When I saw they had Koster to help them, I figured that it was (a delicious) icing on the cake.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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