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Loinsworth

Can We Trade Pledge Items Pre-Launch? [Now with a Dev Response]

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We know that trading in-game items will be A-OK (see Dev post below). 
 
We also know that we will have the ability to "trade back" items in our pledge for store credit (don't have Dev post, but read it in an official communication I will dig up later, unless you find it first). 
 
How about the obvious next step? Can we (sometime soon) trade pledge items with each other prior to launch?
 
Apparently the answer is yes. 
 
 
Update from Dev below:
 
 

We won't have a trade mechanism near-term but we will have gifting, from today's update:

  • Two factor authentication
  •  
  • Gifting of packages and items to other registered Crowfall accounts
Note that one precedes the other.  We'll likely require people involved in gifting to opt-into two factor authentication to reduce the claims of fraud.

 


 
 

Here's a few points on this subject.
 
1) We don't prevent people from trading items with each other in Crowfall, and don't intend to.  If something is not intended to betraded (something which is not an item for example), it will be marked as such.
 
2) That said -- BUYER BEWARE!  ArtCraft is not responsible for what happens with transactions outside the game environment, and we aren't going to "make things right" if you get ripped off, so do you own research, and accept the risks involved if you engage in these kinds of transactions.
 
3) Our current Rules of Conduct at http://crowfall.com/#/rulesofconduct prohibits this kind of advertising: (the forum Rules of Conduct are in addition to the website overall ROC)

  • Post messages for any purpose other than personal communication, including advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;
  • Post any messages to, or otherwise attempt via any of the ArtCraft Services (or otherwise) to trade or sell physical or digital Merchandise, such as characters, “resources,” game credits or other accrued Game benefits offered by ArtCraft.
4) With that said, we are in the midst of updating all our TOS/ROC documents and we will continue to curtail the advertising of commercial services on our forums and within the Crowfall game environment.  No one likes unwelcome advertising, particularly within their entertainment.  We will not stop people from trading Crowfall game items, even through third party commercial services.

 

 
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/6533-i-can-help-you-convert-your-sota-pledgesitems-into-crowfall-pledgescredit/?hl=trade+pledge+items

Edited by Loinquivers

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I don't think ACE is foolish enough to open up a service that is prone to online scam. Let's say it did work for you (I am assuming that what you wanted is the option offered in the link in the other forum thread), many other people will use this option for scamming and do you intend to take on the responsibility for players getting scammed in place for ACE?

 

Unless your suggestion is more related to the in-game mechanism where both sides offer items simultaneously, I don't think your suggestion is going to work. Another option you should consider is to perhaps get a part time job (easy enough), earn your own money since it's summer, and save up for the items on the web store that you desire.


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get a part time job 

 

I bet my 1099-B is bigger than yours. Oh wait, you're in Canada, not sure how capital gains are recorded there. 

 

Anyhow, I have a bunch of items on my account I don't need, and my brother has a puny entry-level pledge. I'd like to send him some of the items. Trading them in for credit to ACE does me no good, since I don't need anything else. Also, since I paid for it already, why shouldn't I be able to trade it to my brother?

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Like he said, nobody said you can't. You can just wait and do it in game. Sure if you do it now, you and your brother would achieve your goals, but other people will use this opportunity to scam others.

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Why do you need to trade items which can't be used until the game is out, before the game is out?


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Like he said, nobody said you can't. You can just wait and do it in game. Sure if you do it now, you and your brother would achieve your goals, but other people will use this opportunity to scam others.

 

ACE gave us codes to link with our online profiles. There was an opportunity to scam there. 

 

I'm not particularly concerned with scamming. We're all (mostly) adults, and can responsibly handle our own transactions. I'd love to give some friends my mount skins, as I don't really care about them, or raffle them off for our next charity event. 

 

As ACE has already said:

 

BUYER BEWARE!  ArtCraft is not responsible for what happens with transactions outside the game environment, and we aren't going to "make things right" if you get ripped off, so do you own research, and accept the risks involved if you engage in these kinds of transactions.

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Why do you need to trade items which can't be used until the game is out, before the game is out?

 

People give away digital items on things like Twitch Streams, in-forum give-aways, etc to promote the game. Giving away a skin or a month of VIP membership pre-launch is an excellent means of free advertisement. Makes sense, has worked elsewhere. 

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We won't have a trade mechanism near-term but we will have gifting, from today's update:

 

  • Two factor authentication
  •  
  • Gifting of packages and items to other registered Crowfall accounts

 

Note that one precedes the other.  We'll likely require people involved in gifting to opt-into two factor authentication to reduce the claims of fraud.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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We won't have a trade mechanism near-term but we will have gifting, from today's update:

 

  • Two factor authentication
  •  
  • Gifting of packages and items to other registered Crowfall accounts

 

Note that one precedes the other.  We'll likely require people involved in gifting to opt-into two factor authentication to reduce the claims of fraud.

 

Every account with $ value attached should require 2FA.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Every account with $ value attached should require 2FA.

 

It's a theory, but if people don't want the inconvenience involved for better security we don't feel like we should force them.  At least until they try to transfer items within our system, then we can require it, as abuse that includes gifting/trading items impacts Crowfall customer service volume, and is not good for the brand.

227faacfabc793eb1746f5ded600f6ca.jpg


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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It's a theory, but if people don't want the inconvenience involved for better security we don't feel like we should force them.  At least until they try to transfer items within our system, then we can require it, as abuse that includes gifting/trading items impacts Crowfall customer service volume, and is not good for the brand.

227faacfabc793eb1746f5ded600f6ca.jpg

 

 

Wouldn't it be more cost effective though to require 2 factor authentication for everyone then to have to deal with people getting their account's hacked? I mean yeah I agree that people should take security in their own hands and protect their accounts but if it reduces having to waste time and resources to recover a hacked account I would think the benefits outweigh the cons.

Edited by pang

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Wouldn't it be more cost effective though to require 2 factor authentication for everyone then to have to deal with people getting their account's hacked? I mean yeah I agree that people should take security in their own hands and protect their accounts but if it reduces having to waste time and resources to recover a hacked account I would think the benefits outweigh the cons.

 

The only issue with that is that 2-factor authentication usually means an app on your phone or a keychain device.  One costs money and the other requires a smart phone so if you dont have money or a smart phone it is hard to enforce its use.


Tanom of the WhiteWalkers

 

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It's a theory, but if people don't want the inconvenience involved for better security we don't feel like we should force them.  At least until they try to transfer items within our system, then we can require it, as abuse that includes gifting/trading items impacts Crowfall customer service volume, and is not good for the brand.

 

Plus One, seriously. This is the best course of action.


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The only issue with that is that 2-factor authentication usually means an app on your phone or a keychain device.  One costs money and the other requires a smart phone so if you dont have money or a smart phone it is hard to enforce its use.

 

There are desktop authentication apps as well, for those that don't have a smartphone... e.g.: https://winauth.com/

 

There really is no excuse anymore.  2FA can be used to authenticate a device once and not require it again... or every 30, 60 or 90 days or so.  There are ways to make it less painful, while still providing security.  2FA can also be required only for critical account functions that can avoid account hijacks or runaway purchases.

 

Just because many MMOs of the past have failed at implementing 2FA, is not a fault of 2FA.  You can't fix stupid.

Edited by Nyt

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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I don't know how 2FA works but I guess it adds additional steps of security that I think are unnecessary in my case. Glad to hear that they aren't forcing us to use it unless an attempt to export item from our account is made.

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I don't know how 2FA works but I guess it adds additional steps of security that I think are unnecessary in my case. Glad to hear that they aren't forcing us to use it unless an attempt to export item from our account is made.

 

...until you're a victim, which I think was Gordon's point in allowing backers to assume that risk.  Unfortunately, it may come at a cost to Ace.  

 

If it cost players $50 for support to investigate and fix account compromises on accounts that decline using 2FA, wonder if they'd still decline using 2FA?  If presented with the option of activating 2FA or agreeing to paying a $50 fee for restoring a hacked account in the future, which would you chose?


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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...until you're a victim, which I think was Gordon's point in allowing backers to assume that risk.  Unfortunately, it may come at a cost to Ace.  

 

If it cost players $50 for support to investigate and fix account compromises on accounts that decline using 2FA, wonder if they'd still decline using 2FA?  If presented with the option of activating 2FA or agreeing to paying a $50 fee for restoring a hacked account in the future, which would you chose?

 

I don't plan to be a victim anytime soon : I download files only from trustful sources, my connection is wired, I have strong password system and make sure to not turn hackers into enemies. :D And if it happens, even with all those measures, then I'll tell myself that freedom has a cost.

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There are desktop authentication apps as well, for those that don't have a smartphone... e.g.: https://winauth.com/

 

There really is no excuse anymore.  

 

But what if you're not at home or on your own computer?  Sorry, never seen the new desktop apps so unsure how they would work in these situations?


Tanom of the WhiteWalkers

 

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But what if you're not at home or on your own computer?  Sorry, never seen the new desktop apps so unsure how they would work in these situations?

 

2FA adds a layer on top of the old email system.  The whole reason is because email systems are often hacked, and without letting the users aware of it.  Or for those users that ignorantly click on phishing emails that may look official but aren't.  If any of those conditions occur and the user has 2FA activated, the hacker will be unable to access your account or login to your character from an unauthorized device and to get re-authorized, a special code is sent to your registered phone via txt or an app.  

 

So, if you need to play at a different location, you'll need to authenticate that computer location to your account using 2FA... not just username and password, which is vulnerable.  

 

The only way your account can be compromised with 2FA enabled, is if they have access to your PC or mobile device.... but you'll have bigger issues to deal with than access to a game.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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