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Combat Chat - Official discussion thread

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I have seen many teams in my time strike out for something completely new and staying away from known models (it was much easier back in the day when less stuff had been tried and budgets were smaller). Usually what ended up happening is what I like to call "Wander in the desert for 40 years and end up on the scrapheap of MMO's who never shipped" syndrome. It is not a pleasant thing to watch. It has happened to many, many projects.

 

Guiding Star doesn't mean wholesale copy a game down to the last bit. There will be mechanics that are new and fresh, physics alone is already fun in ways we can't predict. I saw a knight jump today, use his block midair and because his mass was increased by his block he fell faster. It was very subtle and took a second for me to realize it, but I was like holy crap that is cool. This is going to lead to even more aspects we haven't realized yet. 

 

Ignoring known models and developer experience is not a path to success, especially when you have people who have funded you. If you think our goal is crank out a bland combat system, well, you haven't been paying attention. 

 

 

 

 

Sweet. I though of exactly that kind of thing when you mentioned that's how they block. My specific scenario was to have my Lumberjack Commando (aka Guineacian Combat Engineer) dig trap tunnels along the enemy's front line that people won't fall into unless they weight a lot...like say a knight engaging their block :)

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they mentioned in the combat chat there was a spell that the knight could use to increase his mass. it's magic people, come on. that's how he is in the tank class because he can increase his mass and become heavier, thus harder to move.

 

"minotaurs, centaurs, and talking guinea pigs -- kk got it. a knight being able to increase his mass? HORSE SHlT"

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they mentioned in the combat chat there was a spell that the knight could use to increase his mass. it's magic people, come on. that's how he is in the tank class because he can increase his mass and become heavier, thus harder to move.

 

"minotaurs, centaurs, and talking guinea pigs -- kk got it. a knight being able to increase his mass? HORSE SHlT"

 

Blair_CST.jpg

 

 

Perfect reaction.


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I have seen many teams in my time strike out for something completely new and staying away from known models (it was much easier back in the day when less stuff had been tried and budgets were smaller). Usually what ended up happening is what I like to call "Wander in the desert for 40 years and end up on the scrapheap of MMO's who never shipped" syndrome. It is not a pleasant thing to watch. It has happened to many, many projects.

 

Guiding Star doesn't mean wholesale copy a game down to the last bit. There will be mechanics that are new and fresh, physics alone is already fun in ways we can't predict. I saw a knight jump today, use his block midair and because his mass was increased by his block he fell faster. It was very subtle and took a second for me to realize it, but I was like holy crap that is cool. This is going to lead to even more aspects we haven't realized yet. 

 

Ignoring known models and developer experience is not a path to success, especially when you have people who have funded you. If you think our goal is crank out a bland combat system, well, you haven't been paying attention. 

 

 

 

 

There's no doubt that is a great approach, cherry picking from the best, inspired and functional mechanics we've seen to date.  Love the action-based system as a foundation to steer more and more away from tab-targeting and the like.  The more action/aiming, dare I say FPS-ish with all of the rich MMO goodness you guys have in mind the better.  In my opinion, that's the future.

 

I just hope you guys continue to feel the same way I do: "bored with the current state of Massively Multiplayer Online games and desperate to try something different. Something innovative. The core design of these games hasn't changed in over a decade. It's time for a developer to take some real risks and try something new."

 

Really liked the video.  /salute

Edited by ari

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I do like active blocking.  What I would like to see is a couple of archtypes with shields of varying sizes.

The Knight looks like they have a medium sized shield.  You could also have a small buckler, offering less raw defense and more mobility.

And you could have a greatshield, massive and hulking, that you can slam into the ground and become an immovable object. (using a stake to pile drive into the ground) (ie Tower of Druaga anime)

 

Great defense at a large cost to mobility.

...... and with any given luck greatshields can come with a lance..... I like lances.

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Really enjoyed talk about mechanics like combat.

 

I was a little unnerved by the comments that everything combat has pretty much been done in other games.... and essentially emulating for the sake of risk mitigation is a goal, and what other games have done is a guiding star.

 

No.

 

A different take on bland, dried up MMOs is why people are backing this project, and combat is at the heart of that.

 

Go for the innovation.  It's all over every other aspect of this title.

 

Godspeed Crowfall.  Cannot wait to start testing what you have brewing.

 

/agree

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Well more like imagine the Knight has the mass of a large dude in full plate, then magically 15 feet above the ground we are giving him the mass of a tank. Those are the kinds of extreme values we are using at this stage to prove things work or don't work.

 

The goal is that when Block is engaged the user is "entrenched" and several "entrenched" players can form a line that can't be pushed or knocked around the fight. Sounds pretty cool to me. Side effects may vary (as seen with falling)  

 

I'm curious, what would happen if a character with greater mass jump on a enemy character with lower mass?

Can you damage enemies by jumping on them if your heavy enough?

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Interesting how quickly this thread turned into gravity science... 

 

Just give us a low gravity CW ruleset so we can do science for you.... and so our horses and pigs can fly!


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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It's the same type of people who will calculate Super Saiyan strength and then argue that the game isn't realistic enough.

 

Obviously being over 9000 is relative to benching 450lbs and squatting 1000lbs

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Interesting how quickly this thread turned into gravity science... 

 

 

750 posts and this surprises you? lol.


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First of all the video only goes to 2 minutes. Second of all, did you seriously just bring in a freakin Star Trek movie scene to explain physics/aerodynamics. This is beyond poorly made socks posting, did mal drop a bottle on your head?

@TB If it's intended, it's intended. Just pointing out the logic. Couldn't you just put it where he only gains an enormous amount of mass if he's touching the ground?

I am on cell phone the throughput does not allow me to browse youtube so I posted whatever I managed to find first. If the general concept presented is not suffiicient to understand what I was going to say, and the topic still poses a question you should google it up, or maybe ask mal to drop a bottle on your head to set that brain straight :P

 

-edit; "The skydiver cannot increase their mass easily enough to significantly increase terminal velocity, and the skydiver's area cross-section is limited by their helmet and shoulders in a head-down dive position. The most significant difference comes from the skydiver reducing their coefficient of friction. The head-down body position has to be carefully managed to be as streamlined as possible, while special helmets and slick body suits reduce skin friction, which is a function of surface area and texture. The shape and rigidity of the suits also have to be designed to minimize the coefficient of drag."

 

compare to this

 

So the knight could inclease his falling speed by manupulating the coefficient of friction by holding his shield in a perfectly vertical position, which makes perfect sense when being in a stance trying to block something. That would be especially true if the knight had very tight clothes and had an exceptionally large shield.

 

image108.jpg

 

Like if the Star Trek video was not sufficient

Edited by rajah

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Well more like imagine the Knight has the mass of a large dude in full plate, then magically 15 feet above the ground we are giving him the mass of a tank. Those are the kinds of extreme values we are using at this stage to prove things work or don't work.

 

The goal is that when Block is engaged the user is "entrenched" and several "entrenched" players can form a line that can't be pushed or knocked around the fight. Sounds pretty cool to me. Side effects may vary (as seen with falling)  

 

Ahhh okay, just basically experimenting with the extremes to see what could happen? Interesting.

 

So basically they're rooted. I do think shield walls would be great too, definitely would lend a lot to strategy. Romans and Greeks did it for a reason. Does it make them immobile currently because of the "weight"?  Like a barricade? Just trying to get a bigger picture naturally.

 

I just can't help but keep imagining the Knight grimacing while doing a superman pose with his shield outward like a human missile, sorry~

Edited by Lastgirl~

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There will be mechanics that are new and fresh, physics alone is already fun in ways we can't predict. I saw a knight jump today, use his block midair and because his mass was increased by his block he fell faster. It was very subtle and took a second for me to realize it, but I was like holy crap that is cool. This is going to lead to even more aspects we haven't realized yet. 

 

That sounds awesome. Physics is definitely what I would like to see combat based around the most. Has there been any discussion about TTK? What is the opinion on how long a fight should last, say a 1v1? Ultima Online and Age of Conan you could end a fight very quickly if you catch somebody by surprise, but somebody thinking on their feet could turn the fight around or drag it out several minutes. Some games on the other hand have a very long time to kill. So long 1v1's become time consuming, presumably because the game was balanced for large scale battles.

 

I would like to see a combat system that finds that balance between a fast paced 1v1 combat experience and large scale battles. I think a unique way to accomplish this would be to have spells that increase in power or change complete depending upon how many hostiles are in your area. I'm not saying a 5v10 fight should be fair, but the 5 should be given the tools to actually do something more than sacrifice themselves. Well, unless that was a skill a character could have. Sacrifice your life to give your allies a speed bonus to escape. I know guys in my guild who would make great sacrifices!


Rainman - Lords of Death

 

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