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Vell

Nemesis and Noteriety System

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After reading through the feedback of other posts, while I think the Nemesis part is fine (basically a personal in-game KOS list), I am no longer so sure about a Noteriety systems because of the potential for abuse. I think chancellor said it best:

 

 

No thank you, on the notoriety list. 

 

I would like a "Kill on Sight" list (KOS) for individuals and entire guilds.

I would like a different color for names of my guildmates, another for designated allies, another for KOS, and yet another for undesignated strangers (but that can be the same as KOS).

 

 

Original Post

 

In the simplest terms, the Nemesis and Notoriety System is an in game method to know how many enemies an opposing character has made and to be able to easily identify and target your greatest enemies.

 

How this works is that every character (not player) can have (for example) up to 5 people that they can have on their nemesis list. Here is an example of the system in action:

 

Player A has been constantly killed by player B so player A adds player B to his nemesis list. Now whenever player A sees player B, player B's name is in big red glowing letters (or some other obvious visual cue). Player B (nor any other players for that matter) has any idea that B is on A's nemesis list. Player B later befriends player C and then stabs C in the back as soon as C gains something valuable. Player C (just like player A) also adds player B to their nemesis list. Finally, player B joins a large Kingdom, eventually earns access to the kingdom's resources, then steals them all for himself. The king, his allied kingdoms, and most of his subjects and friends also add B to their Nemesis list.

 

The nemesis system has one more effect; for every player that adds player B to their nemesis list, player B's notoriety rating goes up by one. Notoriety is easily visible by all players. Now, having a high notoriety is not necessarily a bad thing. A really good player may have a high notoriety rating because they are very effective killers or the guild leader of a nefarious guild/kingdom may be considered a high priority target to many players. It could of course be for negative reasons as well such as a player who constantly ganks and camps the weak for no reason or has stolen from their friends and monarchs. Either way, if a player has a high notoriety rating, and wants to for example, join a kingdom or guild, that kingdom/guild may want to look into why that player's notoriety is so high (perhaps through the forums). 

 

It is also important to note that the amount of characters that can be on a nemesis list should be relatively small. This prevents players from just marking everyone that has done them harm as a nemesis. It also prevents trolls from just marking everyone as a nemesis for the fun of it. Getting notoriety should mean something. If player A wants to add player B as their nemesis when A's list is already full, A will have to remove someone before they can add B so A needs to think long and hard about if B really belongs on the list more than the existing players.

 

 

Additional Thoughts

 

Players should also have an in-game method to make a note about any players on their nemesis list. This note is not viewable by other players.

 

It could also be interesting if players have some sort of visual marker (like a symbol next to their name) that changes the higher their notoriety goes up. Some players may even have getting a high notoriety (being the nemesis of many players) as one of their primary goals.

 

If player A puts B on their nemesis list, player A should easily be able to find B in any crowd as long as B is on A's list. Glowing name, an aura, anything that can be seen easily. If B ends up on too many players' nemesis lists, B may find himself as the primary target of MANY skirmishes, no matter where he goes.

 

It may be interesting if there were a way for players to earn additional nemesis slots. For example, kings get a few additional nemesis slots for their title (kings tend to have more enemies than vasels do).

 

There is no way for a player to lower their Notoriety other than guessing which players have put them on their nemesis list and trying to convince them to remove his/her name from their list.

 

If a player does not log into the game for a long period of time (1 month for example), their nemesis list gets cleared and the notoriety of the cleared players goes down by one. The inactive player can re-add the same players to their nemesis list when they eventually log back in as long as they can remember the names.

 

Because of the nature of this game, no player should ever be able to change their name. Artcraft should not generally interfere in the social dynamics of Crowfall. So not only should Artcraft not interfere with thieves and greifers (it is part of the game), they should also not interfere by providing such players with avenues to clear their bad reputation and/or names (if you earned a bad reputation, you are going to have to delete your toon and create a new one, become forgotten or earn forgiveness).

Edited by Vell

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No one needs a notoriety system to understand we have to KOS:

 

sheen

willwill

Santa

thenebrosity

Doomgrin

seventhbeacon

xComvicx

Kintor

Mal

 

And many many more that I don't feel like listing.

 

I suppose if you can't remember who you hate, you may just need to start beating on yourself until you remember.

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I have this mental image of Adall chanting the names like Aria Stark, before he goes to sleep every night. Part prayer, part promise, all staby murder


"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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I feel there is really no need for a relationship management system, if you do not remember them, they are not really your enemies.

 

This is meant as a system to help reinforce the  social repercussions of having a reputation which simply cannot be emulated in a game. In real life, if someone has betrayed you, you can easily identify them should you see them again. In a game with small avatars that are all fairly similar, it is hard to pick out your greatest enemies in a crowd. This provides an avenue to more easily identify them.

 

Crowfall is just a game so most players don't want to take the time to make newspapers or listen to town criers to identify those with a reputation, so an in game method built in adds to the social impact of something most players don't have the time/willingness to deal with. It imitates notoriety that is gained in face to face situations which simply cannot as easily be represented in a setting where every moment is fleeting and ultimately unimportant such as in a game. It provides consequence to actions which, in my opinion, enhances the social experience of especially a PvP game.

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I have this mental image of Adall chanting the names like Aria Stark, before he goes to sleep every night. Part prayer, part promise, all staby murder

I have this mental image of wargasmo reading his UO Prima guide from 1997 before he goes to bed every night, part truth, part not !

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This is meant as a system to help reinforce the social repercussions of having a reputation which simply cannot be emulated in a game.

In just about every game I have played people and guilds of prominence and notoriety were known by the whole server. If people don't know your name you are not notorious and nobody will care about knowing oe reading about you, and no artificial system will change that.

 

I really feel any notoriety system will be redundant and just duplicate normal social dynamics.

Edited by rajah

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by all means no reputation system,though im fine with the first part.

something like a friendliest just for foes and if those ppl are in your area their tag could be especially highlighted.

 

but absolutely no to everything that followed,it will be abused and even if it won't be abused it completely destroys shady gameplay

Edited by kampfbock

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by all means no reputation system,though im fine with the first part.

something like a friendliest just for foes and if those ppl are in your area their tag could be especially highlighted.

 

but absolutely no to everything that followed,it will be abused and even if it won't be abused it completely destroys shady gameplay

 

In honesty, I can agree with you here. The second part may not be the best for certain situations, but I certainly cannot remember the name or visage of a nemesis in game nearly to the same degree as I can in real life (hence why I would like a section to keep notes as well). Comparatively, I simply value in-game stuff too little to dedicate memory to a vendetta (anyone who burns the image of a thief in their mind in game as much as they do the image of a thief in real life is sick in the head in real life). At least with a way to mark people in game who have slighted you or your allies, you can easily prioritize killing those targets when facing multiple foes in combat. With such as system, players who slight too many others will find themselves as the primary target of more and more battles.

 

The punishment for being remembered as treacherous should be the effects of gaining a reputation as such (certainly the punishment should not be Artcraft intervention, that just ruins social dynamics). In a game where there is no risk that can compare to real life, a system to help remember the dark members of society can help bring a risk factor to those who gain the rewards of theft and betrayal.

 

I mean really, in a GAME (especially a PvP one) who can be bothered to memorize the name of every player who has slighted them. But in real life, heck yeah I will remember those who stole, betrayed and harmed me without the need of additional memory aids.

Edited by Vell

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If you dont trust your memory just use pen and paper, no need to design a system around that. Really, how much that might cost ?

 

1) It is a pain to keep notes and not nearly as easily portable as in-game features.

 

2) Pen and paper cannot highlight your enemies in game.

 

3) The ease of simply right clicking a player or their name and having them added to a nemesis list encourages more players to tag, track and get revenge on those who have wronged them. This ease of tracking helps balance out the ease of douchbagery you find in most PvP games.

 

4) Players in games often have impossibly difficult to remember names.

Edited by Vell

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i dont really like the idea of a nemesis system

 

what if there was like a bff system (like friends but better ^^) it could alert you if your bff was in trouble so you could come help? idk


(づ ˘ ³˘)づ

Hug it Out

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No thank you, on the notoriety list. 

 

I would like a "Kill on Sight" list (KOS) for individuals and entire guilds.

I would like a different color for names of my guildmates, another for designated allies, another for KOS, and yet another for undesignated strangers (but that can be the same as KOS).

 

With the betrayal inherent to CF, Best Friends may not be forever.

Your proposed system sounds more like Friends With Benefits (FWB), or a guild, Aiona.

Actually most players will play with Skype, Teamspeak or some other voice chat program running concurrently, so this is one feature already planned.

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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No thank you, on the notoriety list. 

 

I am starting to see the problems with the notoriety thing myself, I can think of possible flaws, especially with abuse. Many for the same reasons as there should not be an in-game bounty system.

 

 

I would like a "Kill on Sight" list (KOS) for individuals and entire guilds.

I would like a different color for names of my guildmates, another for designated allies, another for KOS, and yet another for undesignated strangers (but that can be the same as KOS).

 

Agree with all of this. And I want it in game because I don't want to / can't remember the laundry list of people with ridiculous names and spelling that have the exact same look as hundreds of other players. The punishment for betrayal / crime should be being added to the KOS list of any player who chooses to no longer deal with you, not GM intervention. The punishment for screwing over a LOT of players is being on a LOT of players' KOS lists (and perhaps the lists of their friends and allies as well). A game like this really can benefit from clear ways to identify you foes from friends... or at least who you THINK to be your foes and friends ;)

Edited by Vell

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Maybe just 3 custom 'friend lists' that could be named and color coded client side with a place for notes would resolve everything. Then you can use them however it benefits you.


"Where there is unity there is always victory." -- Publilius Syrus

"If there weren't luck involved, I would win every time." -- Phil Hellmuth
"A good soldier does not fight because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- G. K. Chesterton

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