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ColdSlither

Rewards other than resources/embargo for finishing a campaign (win or lose)

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We seem to get stuck on punishing behavior we want to prevent more so than rewarding behavior we want to encourage in our discussions, but I noticed this from one of Todd's posts.

 

We are going to have rewards for Campaign participation.  We just can't let those rewards grant significant in-game benefits that could be carried over into the next Campaign (and the next, and the next...) Otherwise, we've just moved the Uncle Bob problem -- the 'slippery slope' positive/negative feedback reinforcement loop -- out of the Campaign and into the EK, which would actually be worse. We'd be trading server stagnation in for game-service stagnation.  UGH.  
 
Todd
ACE

 

 

So, people haven't really brought up that they may also be looking at earning rewards for campaign completion outside of the win/loss embargo. What those are, could be up for debate. Cosmetic items, titles, badges on the character record. I.E. - if you complete a certain number of campaigns you may have some kind of a rank that advances, showing you as a veteran of a certain number of campaigns. Everyone who completes the campaign could get them and f you quit early, you don't earn any of these. 

 

 

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heck all I used to get as rewards back in SB were buff and stam pots.


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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As I said elsewhere, winners could get:

  • VIP tickets?
  • Credit to buy cosmetic stuff
  • Name on the "Leaderboards".. that could be displayed in every EK and on the crowfall website

Don't think losers should get anything though.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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Participation badges are what is wrong with today's youth.

 

If you want a reward, win your creme-brulee-flavored campaign.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Participation badges are what is wrong with today's youth.

 

If you want a reward, win your creme-brulee-flavored campaign.

 

This mentality makes sense for most games or contests, as they take minutes to hours to complete. 

 

The purpose we are discussing here is enticing people to stick with campaigns where they may have to play for weeks (or months?)after they've been effectively defeated.

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If you make it worth losing, you diminish the fun of crushing.

 

Why stick with a game where those I (or more likely my more warlike friends) defeat get a reward for it.  The only thing you should get for losing is whatever embargo percentage you're entitled to, and someone telling you "You should have tried harder."

 

First step to keeping people playing, don't actually tell people who is winning till the end, let em try and figure it out themselves.  Am I the only one who keeps playing even when I'm losing, just because playing is FUN?  At the end of the day, I'm still doing what I love whether I'm winning or losing.


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I made a post about sidegrade unlocks and poorly made socks for individuals and guilds a while back. I stand by it. Tying campaigns in to character development would be a pretty good call, provided expanded character development done this way doesn't provide a linear power increase. You wanna replace your guild's trebs with swarm of giant boulder-dropping bats? Go win campaigns. You think those bats will auto-win because they're not a fixed position? You can't target where they drop the rocks.

 

etc. etc.

 

Also, battle scars/aging options would be neat, some way to unlock visually the option to have your character seem more "veteran" in a visual sense the more campaigns you complete.

 

Edit: Just an idea in regards to horizontal progression:

Discipline slots.

You start with 3 disc slots, and to replace a disc you have to trash the old one right? What if winning (or maybe just participating in to a lesser degree) allowed you to unlock disc slots so you could apply more than three, but could only have three active at once, and could switch out active discs in a predefined safe location like your city, camp, or whatever maybe once a week? This would be a pretty balanced system that would scale your versatility, but not your power.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Also, battle scars/aging options would be neat, some way to unlock visually the option to have your character seem more "veteran" in a visual sense the more campaigns you complete.

Sounds like a waste of resources IMO.  Cool for Roleplay, sure, but hardly necessary or impactful in any way.  Maybe have some options for age and scars at character creation, or perhaps some cosmetics you can purchase, but having an entire system devoted to adding scars and age to your character is pointless and excessive.  

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This mentality makes sense for most games or contests, as they take minutes to hours to complete. 

 

The purpose we are discussing here is enticing people to stick with campaigns where they may have to play for weeks (or months?)after they've been effectively defeated.

They don't have to, they can quit and try another one. Pansies don't deserve to win anyway.

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Sounds like a waste of resources IMO.  Cool for Roleplay, sure, but hardly necessary or impactful in any way.  Maybe have some options for age and scars at character creation, or perhaps some cosmetics you can purchase, but having an entire system devoted to adding scars and age to your character is pointless and excessive.  

 

The idea is rewards that don't create a victory snowball situation, so cosmetics fit the bill pretty well. It's a thing that doesn't give winners ongoing campaign advantage but still confers reward. No different than a title and not that much more difficult to implement as if you're already adding cash shop cosmetics to the game you already have a framework for it. You simply change the method of acquisition for some options.


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Sounds like a waste of resources IMO.  Cool for Roleplay, sure, but hardly necessary or impactful in any way.

You mean like an EK?

 

6_u

 

Seriously, though. It's not like this whole game is built purely around 100% serious business, and there's no room for enjoyable things for the sake of enjoyable things.

 

They don't have to, they can quit and try another one. Pansies don't deserve to win anyway.

Except their quitting early affects other people who might be trying plenty hard enough's experience. In other words, it's easy to say "don't be a pansy," but it's harder to say "Somehow ensure you don't get on a team with a bunch of pansies who ruin your chances of winning."

 

It's kind of a domino effect, too. If it's 1,000 vs 1,000, and you're behind a bit, but you at least have a chance, then, with 10 days left to go in the campaign, 400 people decide "screw this, I'm gonna go elsewhere," then now it's 600 people, who were already behind, versus 1,000 people in the lead. Now there are even more people who are going to say "well NOW we don't even have a chance! /leave".

 

The goal isn't to prevent anyone from ever leaving. It's just to provide little incentives beyond the hope/chance that half your team isn't a bunch of early-leaving pansies, to actually stick with a campaign to the end.


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The incentive to win is to win...

 

No one's talking about the incentive to win. Not even the incentive to play (as leaving a campaign but starting another is still playing, but that doesn't help all those faction-mates for whom you and a few hundred other people just guaranteed a loss). We're talking about an incentive to finish.

 

Even the winners don't want to JUST win. What if every campaign ended 1 day in? That would suck. Why? Because it's kinda fun to actually have a 3-month-long campaign. Remember the Risk analogy? Eventually, it's not even fun for Uncle Bob (which is very true of Risk, when everyone else has 3 units and you have 150.) Imagine how that analogy would go if Uncle Bob gets like 10 more units than other people, but it's still this big FFA match, then, everyone else but you and Uncle Bob leave, and he's completely unopposed in several continents, while you only have your one little army to oppose him? Would you keep playing?

 

No one who wants to play Risk wants to play 7 turns of Risk, then win by default.


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The design goal is that the campaign ends when somebody wins it. If someone can be "effectively defeated" a few weeks into the campaign, that's either a design failure which the devs need to fix, or, more likely, a problem of insufficient imagination and determination on the part of the "defeated" party.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I don't want another worthless trophy or meaningless badge. This is what I signed up for. Not play 2 hand hold. Not play 4 everyone to be a winner.

Play 2 Crush



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You mean like an EK?

No.  EKs have a multitude of uses and actually provide small, but tangible benefits to the players inside of campaigns.  EKs can be used as trading hubs, as well as sites for hosting tournaments and other various things that players come up with.  Relics & Trophies stored in houses & keeps in EKs also provide small stat bonuses to players inside of Campaigns.  Plus you have to have somewhere to store your resources between campaigns.  

 

Also, the above post.  Pretty much that.  

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No.  EKs have a multitude of uses and actually provide small, but tangible benefits to the players inside of campaigns.  EKs can be used as trading hubs, as well as sites for hosting tournaments and other various things that players come up with.  Relics & Trophies stored in houses & keeps in EKs also provide small stat bonuses to players inside of Campaigns.  Plus you have to have somewhere to store your resources between campaigns.

I was partially joking. They aren't useless, but the vast majority of their "benefit" is strictly "for funsies." Hosting tournaments in your EK has no impact on winning losing anything. It's just "roleplay," essentially. It's just something players can do because they enjoy it. In fact, much of them are cosmetic things (Ooooh I have a spiffy-looking keep, even though it serves the same function as some other keep/Ooooh, I have a really pretty throne that I can sit in! I don't NEED to have a throne at all, but I like having it, so I built one and I sit in it)

 

Also, you don't store your resources in EKs. You store them in your account bank. You can amass resources out the wazoo and never ever tend a single blade of grass in an EK.

 

Also, the above post.  Pretty much that.

Except, once again, no one's talking about everyone winning. It has nothing to do with winning and losing. It just has to do with fun. Just like cosmetic thrones and "SimKingdom" in the EKs.

 

Besides, you can't conceptually be against anyone getting anything besides the winner, without being completely against anything that isn't 0% export on a loss in campaign rules. If you getting 80% more resources out of a campaign isn't enough of a win for you, at what point is it just "I need specifically for others to suffer in a pit of misery so that I can feel victorious."?


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Seriously, though. It's not like this whole game is built purely around 100% serious business, and there's no room for enjoyable things for the sake of enjoyable things.

 

Shhhh you'll ruin the "CoD with castles" vibe I get while reading some posts.

 

https://www.themittani.com/features/crowfall-exposed-part-1

 

The comments section in this article is how a lot of people view PvP players. The childish name calling, the creative use of curse words, trolls. I get we will probably will be a niche game, in fact the devs admit it. What the OP suggests is a way to lure some of the on the fence people. If you don't like achievements, fine don't worry about them. Some people do like them, and if it gets them in game all the better for the game. It is a superfluous thing that has no effect on the actual game play, but gives certain players something to shoot for. Not everyone is high KvD, in fact most are mediocre, bell curve and all. They need something to shoot for other than to be cannon fodder. They need a reason to stick around. If that is achievements, so be it. It has no effect on anything other than keeping people around to feed into the machine. They might even get better.

 

I am a mediocre player, but this game has piqued my interest. I have no delusions of grandeur, I know I won't be the best. I probably will never see the Dregs. I will get frustrated getting my teeth kicked in. A goal to shoot for would give me a reason to get over that frustration. I don't need a pat on the back or a reward for trying, but to log in to get that last Knight kill to further progress a "slayer" achieve is reason enough. Sorry Lephys, this isn't directed at you, i agree with you.

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Exactly. I enjoy losing in competitive games that are just plain fun. But, it's not fun to have your chances of winning determined by the luck of the draw (your teammates bailing early being the glaring example). I don't understand why there's so much resentment for the notion of incentives that don't affect the uber-hardcore people in any way, shape, or fashion, shy of maybe actually giving them a more consistent challenge to dominate for the entire duration of a campaign, rather than a good challenge until 2 months in, then no challenge at all.

 

All anyone can come up with is "Pssh, if you didn't win, you should just DEAL WITH IT! YEAHHHH *snaps into a Slim Jim*", as if someone's asking to somehow undermine the competitive nature of the game.

 

Why are participation incentives so threatening to you guys? What, you'd rather win by default than by actually beating someone? If not that, then what?

 

How dare we try to come up with concepts that make losing more fun. Gyah!


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