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Coin of the realm - Official discussion thread

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I like it, although it seems to be a fail safe for people that have no clue how to barter items. Now it will be more difficult to convince people to trade their pack pigs for magic beans.

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The upshot to npc vendoring like thralls is to sell your wares with availability while you're offline or busy in a campaign. It's Auction Houses that's a different experience altogether.

Yeah IMO not having vendors would be a huge hindrance to a player run economy. Wouldn't really be fair or balanced either if could only trade when online, would slant the system to where the no lifers that play all time would run the economy and not all players like its supposed to be.

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Je ne pense pas qu'une monnaie unique soit une bonne idée pour ce type de jeu.

Pour tous les amateurs de jeu stratégique (exemple avec Tribal war 2 sur Iphone et Androïd) la seule monnaie est l'échange de ressources entre joueurs.

 

L'échange serait beaucoup plus intéressant. Cela permettrait directement aux artisans de renom de troquer une armure contre des ressources et fabriquer encore plus d'armure que de faire appelle à une monnaie (bien qu'elle aussi doit être fabriquer) et proposer une faille du système à des Goldsellers capable d'anéantir l'équilibre économique du serveur et , du coup, de tuer royalement le jeu.


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They're inhibiting bartering indirectly, by introducing currency. Sure you can still barter, but why would I bother trying to find someone to give me that specific thing I want for this specific thing I have, when I can trade this specific thing for coins, then buy the item I want with those same coins. That's the entire basis of currency and why it exists in 99% of societies (and video games). Players will always take the path of least resistance and currency is that path. It's not anything bad on us for being lazy or whatever. It's just those two trades (my item for currency, my currency for another item) is WAY easier than trying to barter. 

 

If the devs don't introduce currency the players will. You are correct but your point is moot. I have rarely had issue while either buying or selling negotiate partial payment in currency and the remainder in items. 

Edited by Unnamed

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Je ne pense pas qu'une monnaie unique soit une bonne idée pour ce type de jeu.
Pour tous les amateurs de jeu stratégique (exemple avec Tribal war 2 sur Iphone et Androïd) la seule monnaie est l'échange de ressources entre joueurs.
 
L'échange serait beaucoup plus intéressant. Cela permettrait directement aux artisans de renom de troquer une armure contre des ressources et fabriquer encore plus d'armure que de faire appelle à une monnaie (bien qu'elle aussi doit être fabriquer) et proposer une faille du système à des Goldsellers capable d'anéantir l'équilibre économique du serveur et , du coup, de tuer royalement le jeu.

 

Courant can you translate this?


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Things can get out of hand either way, but the consequences are very different. In a free-floating market, if there's a sudden oversupply of stone then some players will get richer and others poorer but the system continues work work once stone prices normalize. In an inflexible market, if there's a sudden oversupply of stone and the price of stone is hard linked to coin and the price of coin is hard linked to cash, then every market for every commodity and currency type is disrupted and cannot fix itself without manual dev intervention.

 

By hard linked do you mean that, for example, 1 stone will equal 1 coin and no matter how scarce or abundant stone is that coin cost will never change? If so, why would it be hard linked? 

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Je ne pense pas qu'une monnaie unique soit une bonne idée pour ce type de jeu.
Pour tous les amateurs de jeu stratégique (exemple avec Tribal war 2 sur Iphone et Androïd) la seule monnaie est l'échange de ressources entre joueurs.
 
L'échange serait beaucoup plus intéressant. Cela permettrait directement aux artisans de renom de troquer une armure contre des ressources et fabriquer encore plus d'armure que de faire appelle à une monnaie (bien qu'elle aussi doit être fabriquer) et proposer une faille du système à des Goldsellers capable d'anéantir l'équilibre économique du serveur et , du coup, de tuer royalement le jeu.

 

 

Courant helped me out:

 

 
I think a unique currency is not a good idea for this type of game. For all the fans of strategy games (example Tribal War 2 on Iphone and Android), the only currency is the exchange (bartering) of resources between players.
 
Exchange (bartening) would be way more interesting. It would allow the renowned craftsmen to barter an armor for resources, and to craft even more armors, rather than using a standard currency (even if this currency can also be crafted) and suggesting a flaw in the system for Goldsellers, which are able to destroy the economic balance of a server and, in the same time, destroy the game. 

 


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I'm totally fine with the way money is getting implemented, by making it a product of crafting, and something to be looted.

 

PoE has a great way to play with currency, but when economy is going to be at the heart of your game, shiny coins are definitely less risky. I think tuning the values of materials and items will be easier this way.

 

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Because otherwise you would need to establish a currency amongst players, or vendors would be incredibly convoluted. One player sells items for chickens, and another sells them for wood and another sells them for iron ore. How would things like taxes or maintenance on buildings work? Could players decide to pay their maintenance in chickens? You can see this becoming a bit strange. They are basically deciding to establish a currency instead of letting players establish one. The latter would mean some consensus among ALL players, else you go to a vendor and he's selling things in chickens where everyone else has decided to sell things in iron ore ingots. 

 

I agree a barter system is maybe more fun, but if you want things like taxes and maintenance and vendors to work, you have to have a common currency. In other games like Path of Exile, there isn't really gold, but there are items that drop a lot that end up being like a currency. The problem is you will have trouble doing that in a PvP game, since you can't generate that "currency." One player killing another is a net zero change to currency amongst players. So now you have to make the currency drop from monsters or in the game. So you are still in the same spot, where you need to gather resources from the game or monsters. They are simply establishing a common currency for us, before we get a chance to splinter and make 10 different currencies. Probably a good decision, but who knows. It's also subject to change. 

 

Taxes could be normalized to a particular value of various precious metals in ore form and buildings could be kept up with a percentage of materials required to build them... you know, logic.

The idea of introducing currency seems to me to be a product of being overwhelmed by the scope of the project.

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It's a tradeable item and I have not seen otherwise. Which means it's lootable too. If I can buy VIP tickets from the ACE store, and have it placed in my character's inventory inside the campaign, then we have a serious problem.

 

Why would that be a problem? Why would you bring a VIP ticket into a campaign? Why would you want to buy a VIP ticket in a campaign? You can't "use it" unless you are able to embargo it and then you fare well enough in the campaign to bring it back with you. If people want to risk bringing in high value items that provide no competitive edge into a campaign, by all means let them.

 

You could also probably use one of your import slots on a hard to acquire statue or on a particularly good relic. Both of these very well might have more in game "value" than a VIP ticket and, likewise, don't "do" anything that would give you an edge in a campaign. 

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I  know,let's just open currency to be "stolen" by a Guild that actually won't do anything itself apart from zergging small groups/guilds,etc that have joined in the game,done the work etc.Like it or not there has to be some mechanisn for people to hold  onto something or they won't bother to put any work in which means the game will quickly die as people say: why bother?

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By hard linked do you mean that, for example, 1 stone will equal 1 coin and no matter how scarce or abundant stone is that coin cost will never change? If so, why would it be hard linked? 

 

If I can pay rent on the same parcel using either 50 gold or 500 stone, then the exchange rate will never stray significantly from 10:1 since any large discrepancy will create arbitrage opportunities.


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Agreeing with the article.  If they did not give use something to use as a standard, we simply would have created one ourselves.  Cabbages!  No one wants to eat he cabbage, thus we will make it a currency item!

 

 

What interests me, is the conversion of wood, leather, cloth, etc items that are not metal-based into.  The articles takes about breaking items down to ore then making coins.  With the inverse, you know the "coin" value based on the crafting recipes, but how many coins doe sit take to make a leather jerkin?

Not sure if anyone answered this one, but I do think the alchemist trait will only convert metals into the ore/currency. Not jerkins. While that would rather awesome it would defeat the lay of the game by giving a base value to all items. I.e. All Jerkins at base are worth 5 so-and-so. Which goes against the grain of what is trying to be established, coin (copper, Iron, silver, gold etc.) being a player driven standard and helping grease the endless wheels of commerce as we ride this horse into the ground and beat it with fish. Over and over again.

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If I can pay rent on the same parcel using either 50 gold or 500 stone, then the exchange rate will never stray significantly from 10:1 since any large discrepancy will create arbitrage opportunities.

 

I'm no economist, but that linkage would create a minimum value for each of those resources but it wouldn't force a steady exchange rate.  If scarcity/demand made 500 stone worth more than 50 gold, people would simply stop using stone to pay rent.


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I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to post it here:

Upgrading/Buying/Upkeep for castles/fortresses/camps can be related to a feasible amount of resources depending on the building. Wooden building? Requires more wood than clay/stone. Castle? Requires a lot more stone than clay/wood. Taxes for parcels could be tied to the amount of iron/gold/ore as an (EXTREMELY SMALL) percentage of how much is available to players unused in the market.

By it being spread out over tens of types of resources instead of (1) type of coin, you are dealing with a more flexible market. Instead of it all being based on the value of the coin. This makes the materials you use for crafting worth more in the bartering system by a comparison of how much is available, than to the worth of the coin....which again is tied to how much VIP tickets ACE sells and the price point of Parcels/builds in their store.


ACE's hard prices on specific items in the shop, taxes, etc can be valued just based on a fluctuating percentage of what is unused by players. Again, by spreading the value over multiple resources you are allowing items to have value in and of themselves for barter, without simplifying them to just a coin cost.


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I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to post it here:

 

Upgrading/Buying/Upkeep for castles/fortresses/camps can be related to a feasible amount of resources depending on the building. Wooden building? Requires more wood than clay/stone. Castle? Requires a lot more stone than clay/wood. Taxes for parcels could be tied to the amount of iron/gold/ore as an (EXTREMELY SMALL) percentage of how much is available to players unused in the market.

 

By it being spread out over tens of types of resources instead of (1) type of coin, you are dealing with a more flexible market. Instead of it all being based on the value of the coin. This makes the materials you use for crafting worth more in the bartering system by a comparison of how much is available, than to the worth of the coin....which again is tied to how much VIP tickets ACE sells and the price point of Parcels/builds in their store.

 

 

ACE's hard prices on specific items in the shop, taxes, etc can be valued just based on a fluctuating percentage of what is unused by players. Again, by spreading the value over multiple resources you are allowing items to have value in and of themselves for barter, without simplifying them to just a coin cost.

But it's all the same. You are just adjusting the numbers.

 

A Keep Costs 1,000 coins

A Keep Costs 500 Stone

A Keep Costs 2,000 Clay

A Keep Costs 1,500 Wood

 

It's all the same.

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