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Coin of the realm - Official discussion thread

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A Question for Artcraft:

 

Will coins, in any way shape or form be tied to VIP or be allowed to purchase things from the cash shop?

If you do this, IMO, it could devastate the entire "player driven economy" by establishing value based off of cash shop items.

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I meant 'easy' for a coding/ACE perspective, more so than a player perspective. Sure, it's easier for players, but designing a system that can tax players and offer players land for a set price that doesn't have currency? That's complicated to design; waaaay more effort than they should spend on that aspect of the economy. Coin abstracts those values enough, but I feel the system is still complex (due to the reasons others have stated, with the coins still not being safe and weighing the value of the coins versus the value of the armor).

 

ACE approached CF as a two faced system. I don't want anything to do with the EK's, personally, but I feel like this takes away a lot from what EK players get to delve themselves into. If they truly want to make EKs equal to campaigns, they should be willing to put the effort into the economic system.

 

I'm obv in the minority, although I don't remember much crying when they mentioned the barter system the first time, but feel like I should offer my opinion as someone who enjoyed bartering in other games.


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I'm kind of disappointed to be honest. I loved the idea of the barter system, and I've seen it work in games before. I know you say it's not fun, J Todd, but it was probably the most fun I have had trading...it made trading more interactive in and of itself. I never spent more time engage in economics or felt more rewarded than finding those perfect barter deals or interacting with a large amount of people, seeing what they had, and maybe finding something interesting yourself you hadn't seen before in the process.

I also feel like this takes a decent chunk away from the EK's. If the point is to have hundreds and hundreds and each have their own unique vendors and player driven economies, this basically stamps a lot of the emergent gameplay out by introducing common currency (which we have seen in basically every MMO). Feels like a cop out, and [at worse, but not suspected] hopefully not a path to leading to ACE monetizing in game currency on top of VIP tickets.

Primal hit this on the head and killed it, save one other point:

 

With a barter system, decisions matter. You need to decide to trade that stone for a sword, use it to build a new building, or ensure you have enough for upkeep.

 

Now you have less decisions as we just need to grind all the precious metals we find into coin.

 

I suppose I am fine with the decision as it is more approachable to people and this is a line that isn't as important if you cross it to appeal to more. I appreciate that you took the time to ensure there will be sinks and that you can undo the coinage and make other item with it. It is a nice middle ground to gold coins being only used as gold coins... maybe I want to take my pool of money, stop swimming in it and start stabbing (soft things) with it!

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Well, players for sure will find a non-fixed currency value to trade VIPs for... but I do agree that making a direct link with VIP and cash shop is bad.

 

 

wrong again

I think you're getting into the black market discussion at this point as I don't know whether there will be anything within game that you can buy VIP with, and thus it would be a resource -> to cash -> VIP conversion outside of the game.

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Well, I have played in barter games, but it doesn't really work with the model they are doing here for Crowfall, IMO. Consider your comment about needed to have  "a finger on the pulse of what players need". OK. In a barter system game, if you really want/need an item and you don't have what the other player wants for it, you can go out and try to get it. I don't know if I think it's as fun as you are making it out to be, but it works. It's almost a kind of player generated quest.

 

Problem is, in Crowfall, that only works in campaigns. If you are shopping in the EK and the other player wants a resource you didn't embargo...tough luck. Try again in a few months after your next campaign.

 

A currency, that could be used in both environments, was one of the missing ingredients connecting the EK to the Campaign, IMO.

 

Quite the opposite, it would allow ACE to tailor the resources acquired in new campaigns to drive the market the way they want it driven. This system revolves around temporary campaigns ACE sets the rules for. Without coins you are also having to create alliances with those who have a monopoly on a specific resource in campaign that your guild doesn't have. More politics.


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A Question for Artcraft:

 

Will coins, in any way shape or form be tied to VIP or be allowed to purchase things from the cash shop?

If you do this, IMO, it could devastate the entire "player driven economy" by establishing value based off of cash shop items.

 

- There are a number of sinks in the game that will accept coins. You can use them to purchase parcels and buildings from the shop, upgrade your strongholds, pay maintenance or you can treat the coins as a raw material for crafting more items.

 

- But we AREN'T going to provide common (system-run) vendors.  Our goal is to facilitate and enable the flow of goods and services -- but keep it player-driven. 


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Primal hit this on the head and killed it, save one other point:

 

With a barter system, decisions matter. You need to decide to trade that stone for a sword, use it to build a new building, or ensure you have enough for upkeep.

 

Now you have less decisions as we just need to grind all the precious metals we find into coin.

 

I suppose I am fine with the decision as it is more approachable to people and this is a line that isn't as important if you cross it to appeal to more. I appreciate that you took the time to ensure there will be sinks and that you can undo the coinage and make other item with it. It is a nice middle ground to gold coins being only used as gold coins... maybe I want to take my pool of money, stop swimming in it and start stabbing (soft things) with it!

I think that it depends if there is anything that gold coins are capable of doing.  If gold coins have no cash shop value (can't be used for buying VIP or skins), then their value within the game is artificial and players could choose to use them or not depending on convenience. 

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Primal hit this on the head and killed it, save one other point:

 

With a barter system, decisions matter. You need to decide to trade that stone for a sword, use it to build a new building, or ensure you have enough for upkeep.

 

Now you have less decisions as we just need to grind all the precious metals we find into coin.

 

I suppose I am fine with the decision as it is more approachable to people and this is a line that isn't as important if you cross it to appeal to more. I appreciate that you took the time to ensure there will be sinks and that you can undo the coinage and make other item with it. It is a nice middle ground to gold coins being only used as gold coins... maybe I want to take my pool of money, stop swimming in it and start stabbing (soft things) with it!

 

We need coins.

 

That being said nothing is stopping people without coins from bartering with other goods.  Guilds will need raw resources just as much, if not more so, than coins.

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Sounds a lot like the old school currency situation in UO.

 

You had to carry the currency in your bag on you to make a purchase, which meant it could also be taken upon theft or death by looting a corpse.


 

Rage Quit

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Under the presumed barter system, the same rules applied. Not sure how that is relevant now that we have moved to a crafted currency.

 

I think that it depends if there is anything that gold coins are capable of doing.  If gold coins have no cash shop value (can't be used for buying VIP or skins), then their value within the game is artificial and players could choose to use them or not depending on convenience.

 

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ACE approached CF as a two faced system. I don't want anything to do with the EK's, personally, but I feel like this takes away a lot from what EK players get to delve themselves into. If they truly want to make EKs equal to campaigns, they should be willing to put the effort into the economic system.

 

I'm obv in the minority, although I don't remember much crying when they mentioned the barter system the first time, but feel like I should offer my opinion as someone who enjoyed bartering in other games.

 

I plan on doing EK things at this point, and I feel like this is a good middle-ground for the economic parts of it. I'm already used to coin systems from other games, so that's fine by me. A more 'pure' barter system would have been fun, but their stated goals of also collecting taxes from players and allowing land to be bought from them does not really work with a completely barter system.

 

Primal hit this on the head and killed it, save one other point:

 

With a barter system, decisions matter. You need to decide to trade that stone for a sword, use it to build a new building, or ensure you have enough for upkeep.

 

Now you have less decisions as we just need to grind all the precious metals we find into coin.

 

I suppose I am fine with the decision as it is more approachable to people and this is a line that isn't as important if you cross it to appeal to more. I appreciate that you took the time to ensure there will be sinks and that you can undo the coinage and make other item with it. It is a nice middle ground to gold coins being only used as gold coins... maybe I want to take my pool of money, stop swimming in it and start stabbing (soft things) with it!

 

I feel like there are still plenty of decisions to make with metals. As you say yourself, deciding whether to keep coin as coin or use it to make gear is still a pretty big decision.

 

I do agree it does put even more value on mining that other crafts, but I assume that's why Alchemists (or other classes) could convert other materials into metal. That will keep them also somewhat in demand, though the reverse process would be harder. At least it would keep those materials from having prices sinking too low.

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- There are a number of sinks in the game that will accept coins. You can use them to purchase parcels and buildings from the shop, upgrade your strongholds, pay maintenance or you can treat the coins as a raw material for crafting more items.

 

- But we AREN'T going to provide common (system-run) vendors.  Our goal is to facilitate and enable the flow of goods and services -- but keep it player-driven. 

Thank you for that, I forgot about it and I can't ever read the articles on my work computer, so I only read it on my phone.

 

 

This does set the tone for their currency, but I can foresee some ways around it as a set currency.

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There's just no UI support now, that's the only difference.

 

I liked the original concept, I still do because it's still there. WTS becomes the more involved WTT, that's all

Edited by oberon

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Primal hit this on the head and killed it, save one other point:

 

With a barter system, decisions matter. You need to decide to trade that stone for a sword, use it to build a new building, or ensure you have enough for upkeep.

 

Now you have less decisions as we just need to grind all the precious metals we find into coin.

 

I suppose I am fine with the decision as it is more approachable to people and this is a line that isn't as important if you cross it to appeal to more. I appreciate that you took the time to ensure there will be sinks and that you can undo the coinage and make other item with it. It is a nice middle ground to gold coins being only used as gold coins... maybe I want to take my pool of money, stop swimming in it and start stabbing (soft things) with it!

Not sure I agree with just having to grind precious metals.

Maybe if you are very much into the EKs only (which I know you are not).

 

But out in the wild campaign worlds, I don't really see currency being used much. (Maybe to set prices on thrall vendors).

You will be able to succesful without currency in a self sustained way right?

 

Currency worth in campaigns will vary wildy is my prediction.

In the EKs you can set the value by prices set by the game and by the overall flow of resources.

In a campaign with lots of resources, currency wont be worth as much as in a campaign with almost no resources.

 

I think there is a lot of room for us to mess around with this system.

The important thing is, that there wont be gold spit out of vendors.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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We need coins.

 

That being said nothing is stopping people without coins from bartering with other goods.  Guilds will need raw resources just as much, if not more so, than coins.

We don't need coins... but it does make it easier for more people to understand.

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Do you guys think that we kill enemy players we can get a portion of coins from looting their corpses?

 

Hopefully it is not merely a portion.  I want to be able to loot all the coins a person is carrying.


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I think you're getting into the black market discussion at this point as I don't know whether there will be anything within game that you can buy VIP with, and thus it would be a resource -> to cash -> VIP conversion outside of the game.

 

No, I just meant that whoever buys VIP tickets can then trade them for currency.


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Quite the opposite, it would allow ACE to tailor the resources acquired in new campaigns to drive the market the way they want it driven. This system revolves around temporary campaigns ACE sets the rules for. Without coins you are also having to create alliances with those who have a monopoly on a specific resource in campaign that your guild doesn't have. More politics.

Just because ACE sets an exchange rate between gold and copper in the shop doesn't mean that that will ALWAYS be the spot market exchange rate. If I need copper to craft needed items in a campaign and can only trade for it, my trading partner has me over a barrel. 


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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