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Coin of the realm - Official discussion thread

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Also doesn't this system kinda go against the no npc vendors philosophy if you're buying ek items from what is essentially an npc vendor? :huh:

 

The philosophy you're referring to is where NPC vendors sell items created by the game. In this case all NPC items have to be actually created by a player before they can be sold.

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Coins make it a easier and that's why people are jumping on it, I agree it is...for the devs and players. We're all mostly PVPers so this is really 'meh' for the majority. Merchanting/bartering is really the only time sink I saw for EKbies next to crafting itself. Now those who want to really connect or have a value by being in EKs have really been diluted. I thought the whole point was to make it a balance between the two. If you're a PVPer and don't want to take the time bartering, find a middle man that will and give them a job.

 

Seriously some lowest common denominator thinking here. If they dumbed down combat to tab targeting mass market crap, this place would be in an uproar.

"Dumbing down" infers removing stuff and simplifying. That's not what's going on here. Coins are on top of what's already always been there. We've always had a system of resources and ores. Now we have the ability to make coins from those resources. There will still be trade, it still all player to player based.

 

Combat system change would indeed cause a HUGE uproar because that would be fundamentally changing the whole system. Adding coins is just that adding something to whats already there, nothing has been taken out here.

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Because you can buy store items with both coins and dollars.

 

AH! You made me re-read the article. Being able to purchase parcels and things in the shop with coins does create a second reference point for game commodities to dollars. And yeah, complicates the economy balancing.

 

Sorry for being so abrasive the past few pages. :D

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Since players can give each other items, why would I bring my VIP tickets that I bought with cash (RMT) into the game if there is any risk to do so?

I could just make the arrangements on-line, accept the in-game payment, and tell the code to player buying the ticket as soon as I believe I'm safe.

And if I ever cheated someone on such a deal, he can ruin my reputation on the forum.

 

 

You wouldn't ever bring your valuables into a campaign. That's what EK's are for. Set up a vendor and sell them with no consequences.

IMAO, VIP tickets are more valuable to the RMT player in a CW, since that's where we can win or lose. And import rules bottleneck other imports.

 

There is no code. I'll explain in detail how PLEXes work because there is a lot of misconceptions about them.

 

A player can purchase a Game Time Card (GTC) from any retailer. That GTC comes with an activation code. The player my opt to activate the code on their account to extend their subscription to the game. The player may also opt to convert the GTC into PLEX. Players can also buy PLEX directly from CCP (the developers of Eve). 

 

Once the PLEX is in a player's account, they can "redeem" the PLEX in-game through Eve's item redemption system (it's a way CCP gives out items to players for things like holidays or RMT). Redeeming the PLEX creates an in-game item with the same name in the character's station hanger. This is now a full-fledged item in the game, and can be traded, put on the market for ISK, given away to a player, put in ship cargo and transported somewhere else, jettisoned from a ship, looted in a ship wreck, or destroyed. 

 

A player with a PLEX item (that they purchased on the open market, found in a wreck, purchased via RMT themselves, etc.) can "reverse-redeem" the PLEX in game via the item's context menu, which will consume the PLEX item and add subscription time to that character's account.

 

PLEX allows players to trade ISK for game time. It is an item in game, the price of which had changed over time. 

 

plex1.gif

 

So, I assume ACE will use a similar system for their VIP ticket RMT, with the caveat that VIP ticket items cannot enter Campaign worlds. The "exchange rate" (really just the price of the item) will change as the goods in the markets change because players are simply trading items.

Using Eve terms, why would I ever convert my GTC into PLEX if I'm just going to sell it for gear (or materials)? The buyer is safer getting an activation code instead of lootable PLEX. He can convert that into a subscription when he feels he is safe to do so.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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"Dumbing down" infers removing stuff and simplifying. That's not what's going on here. Coins are on top of what's already always been there. We've always had a system of resources and ores. Now we have the ability to make coins from those resources. There will still be trade, it still all player to player based.

 

Combat system change would indeed cause a HUGE uproar because that would be fundamentally changing the whole system. Adding coins is just that adding something to whats already there, nothing has been taken out here.

 

Fun fact: That we would possibly have the opportunity to mint our own coinage was sth already discussed back in february. So this is not really news.

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Also doesn't this system kinda go against the no npc vendors philosophy if you're buying ek items from what is essentially an npc vendor? :huh:

No, try reading some old threads on the subject.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Because you can buy store items with both coins and dollars.

Could you point me to that? Seems I have forgotten where ACE said this.

 

Ooops found it. Seems I'm blind. :lol:

Edited by Saosis

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IMAO, VIP tickets are more valuable to the RMT player in a CW, since that's where we can win or lose. And import rules bottleneck other imports.

 

Using Eve terms, why would I ever convert my GTC into PLEX if I'm just going to sell it for gear (or materials)? The buyer is safer getting an activation code instead of lootable PLEX. He can convert that into a subscription when he feels he is safe to do so.

 

The buyer has ISK, but no money to pay for subscription.

The seller has money, but no ISK.

The trade is to the mutual benefit of both parties and done safely* in game without the need for a broker.

 

* Added: market transactions happen in stations where players cannot be attacked. 

Edited by motstandet

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Also doesn't this system kinda go against the no npc vendors philosophy if you're buying ek items from what is essentially an npc vendor? :huh:

 

A player-owned NPC vendor only buys/sells what you tell him to, and only has the goods/coins you provide to him.  That is still pretty different from a standard NPC vendor that buy/sells in an unlimited way.


IhhQKY6.gif

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Exactly, it makes the economy easy mode and that's the reason it has mass appeal right now. It appeals to the lowest common denominator of solo driven mass-appeal MMO economic markets, instead of forcing you to actually collaborate with someone that has a skill in marketing...just like as a PVPer who doesn't want to craft, they find a crafter.

Having coins made from crafting raw materials does not eliminate the need for marketeers.  Bartering and coins are not mutually exclusive.  Hardly the lowest common denominator, more like real world transactions.  When is the last time you were allowed to give the gas station attendant 4 chickens for a tank of fuel?

 

Coins also brings the trading more inside the game.  Without some kind of standard, people either have to rely on third party (and not usually official) sites to try and determine worth of an item which either make transactions take way too long, or discourages a use part of the population from actively participating in trade.

 

Now you can have a vendor going does coin transactions while offline AND you can participate in live bartering if you chose to do so.


Entropy is not what it used to be.  I am a servant of The Nothing.. The Hunger!

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/c8b3da04c46297fe112a98ab12ad8e09/tumblr_n5l2imj4NF1qzm5g7o1_500.gif

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The philosophy you're referring to is where NPC vendors sell items created by the game. In this case all NPC items have to be actually created by a player before they can be sold.

 

 

A player-owned NPC vendor only buys/sells what you tell him to, and only has the goods/coins you provide to him.  That is still pretty different from a standard NPC vendor that buy/sells in an unlimited way.

I mean this bit:

 

- There are a number of sinks in the game that will accept coins. You can use them to purchase parcels and buildings from the shop, upgrade your strongholds, pay maintenance or you can treat the coins as a raw material for crafting more items.

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Agreeing with the article.  If they did not give use something to use as a standard, we simply would have created one ourselves.  Cabbages!  No one wants to eat he cabbage, thus we will make it a currency item!

 

 

What interests me, is the conversion of wood, leather, cloth, etc items that are not metal-based into.  The articles takes about breaking items down to ore then making coins.  With the inverse, you know the "coin" value based on the crafting recipes, but how many coins doe sit take to make a leather jerkin?


Entropy is not what it used to be.  I am a servant of The Nothing.. The Hunger!

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/c8b3da04c46297fe112a98ab12ad8e09/tumblr_n5l2imj4NF1qzm5g7o1_500.gif

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You're taking the analogy too far. CF has no safe zones in the CW. An ISK-like currency was suggested by a Dev, but reviled by players an never confirmed. Players hated the idea because it was one of ArchAge's greatest failings.

The point of this hypothetical CF transaction is to get maximum benefit in a campaign for my IRL cash.

The buyer has ISK, but no money to pay for subscription.

The seller has money, but no ISK.

The trade is to the mutual benefit of both parties and done safely* in game without the need for a broker.

 

* Added: market transactions happen in stations where players cannot be attacked. 

I am simply saying that VIP tickets should be safe from looting and unencumbering if you want toons to carry them, or they won't after a short time.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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I mean this bit:

 

- There are a number of sinks in the game that will accept coins. You can use them to purchase parcels and buildings from the shop, upgrade your strongholds, pay maintenance or you can treat the coins as a raw material for crafting more items.

 

Wait a tick. Wasn't the plan always to allow parcels to be purchasable with dollars OR unlocking with in-game resources? Why do coins suddenly make this seem like a bad idea?

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I mean this bit:

 

- There are a number of sinks in the game that will accept coins. You can use them to purchase parcels and buildings from the shop, upgrade your strongholds, pay maintenance or you can treat the coins as a raw material for crafting more items.

So long as those items (i.e. anything bought in the store) cannot be salvaged then there is not an issue.


Entropy is not what it used to be.  I am a servant of The Nothing.. The Hunger!

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/c8b3da04c46297fe112a98ab12ad8e09/tumblr_n5l2imj4NF1qzm5g7o1_500.gif

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Are merchant npcs only for selling goods or can I set one up in my EK to buy stuff for me like "50 health potions"

 

If so, being able to put coins on the merchant to pay for this stuff would be way easier than 50 chickens, 50 logs, 50 ore etc

Edited by Ziz

MOkvLlm.png

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You are suggesting that fiat currency causes commodities prices to stagnate? Why does indexing Stone against Silver Coin instead of Chickens suddenly require careful control of the prices?

 

What I said is that fiat currencies create boundary conditions upon the market fluctuation of relative commodity values. Instead of the relative values of all commodities fluctuating against each other, and the market organically responding by devaluing surpluses and valuing scarcities, all relative valuations are now made against the values dictated by the fiat currencies. The values of the currency commodities are coerced upon the market, which can no longer respond organically. This allows the realized values of other commodities either to crash entirely or to inflate out of control. In order to prevent this, ACE now has to brute force adjust the supplies and extant quantities of all commodities to make sure they remain valuable against the fiat currencies. What a mess. If they don't have fiat currencies, then they don't even have to care much what the producible quantities of commodities are; they can simply let organic market forces drive production and consumption incentives.

 

I'm pretty certain players won't be able to buy VIP tickets for in-game items from ACE. VIP tickets will only be created via $$ and then injected into the game where other players will trade for them.

 

Good point; I'd forgotten that. That makes it even easier for ACE if they don't set a fiat currency. They could observe the time-derived value of VIP in terms of market volumes to establish a relatively straight-forward aggregate unit of time-value in real dollars, and back-apply that to taxation. Reevaluated every cycle, they could adjust taxation so that it's constant, relative to the habits of the overall player population. With fiat currency, that possibility disappears without a hell of a lot more effort on their part, effort that carries incredible risk of mucking it all up.


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Are merchant npcs only for selling goods or can I set one up in my EK to buy stuff For me like "50 health potions"

 

If so being able to put coins on the merchant to pay for this stuff would be way easier than 50 chickens, 50 logs, 50 ore etc

I hope we can have can list "wanting/commissions" Thralls.  While I would prefer to not have an auction house, there needs to be some sort of interface allows us to at least find the right Thrall.  DAoC had the boards in the center of each housing area.  Simple queries to find items.  You then /houseface # and it pointed you towards that person and you purchased from the NPC directly.  If even 10% of kickstarters had functioning vendors, that is still almost 1,700 EK vendors to visit!


Entropy is not what it used to be.  I am a servant of The Nothing.. The Hunger!

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/c8b3da04c46297fe112a98ab12ad8e09/tumblr_n5l2imj4NF1qzm5g7o1_500.gif

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