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valor

C&C Weekly Discussion/Poll: Coins

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I want to kick this off with a simple poll first to see how the community feels about today's announcement.  This will have no bearing on the direction ACE goes with anything, but just for curiosity sake, let's see how people feel about it.  As polls have been disabled in General Discussion, please respond in the below suggested format:

 

1. Will ACE's coin system hinder the player driven economy?

 

Yes / No

 

2. Assuming that Crowfall will have a coin system in place, how would you structure this system to ensure maximum enjoyment as an economist, trader, crafter while ensuring the market remains player driven.

 

 

 

 

I'll tally all the votes and we will look to cover as much of the conversation as we can.  I think there's still a fair amount left to discuss about the boundaries of the coins and their impact, separate from the discussion about whether they should actually be in game.  And of course, if you want to check in on the conversation or have something to add, feel free to tune in tonight at 8:30pm EST.

 

www.twitch.tv/crownsandcrows

 

Call In to the live show: http://www.gamevox.com/QGY3-4AC

Edited by valor

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1. No, it will help. A stream lined system encourages use. Looking for some one to trade you lumber for chickens for ore to get a sword is cumbersome.

 

2. However it is structured It will remain a player driven economy. Being easier to use doesn't change its nature. People still make and use the items.

 

Ps. You can still trade a chicken for a sword if you want.

Edited by Ziz

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  1. No.
  2. I think the proposed changes from ACE work just fine. Coins minted from (rare) resources and also kept in inventory space enables extra gameplay (like robbery's) while the 'old' barter system is still being possible. Edit: Maybe even player driven banks will be created.

Extra touch: Personalized coins with custom (guild/player) logo's might be a nice touch. It would work the same as the Euro with one general side and one custom side on the coins.

Edited by Canth

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1. No.

 

2. These coins sound more like a crafting recipe requiring copper/silver/gold ore. There's literally nothing forcing anyone to use coins instead of some other resource or item as currency- save convenience. Being able to stack 500 gold coins, rare in their own right, and carry them around from settlement to settlement, or EK to EK, will be a much more more efficient solution to transferring wealth over great distances. Coins in CF will be used for the same reasons they were used in the ancient world, and are still used today.

 

edit: Just make sure copper, silver and gold are appropriately rare.

Edited by soulein

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1. No.

 

2. Trading will always happen regardless with or without a currency. Due to people just wanting to trade an equal value armor/weapon. For the EK, and allied factions during campaigns, the currency will allow things to be bought with the player controlled-NPC that can sell items. For those players that do not want to craft items, it will be extremely necessary for them to use the coins they achieve to buy items they cannot loot themselves.

 

As well, maybe CF will have random uses for the currency?? A random event NPC that you can give money to for something. :huh: (Just a thought)

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1) No, that said I still feel that coinage is not needed. If they are trying to establish a currency for cash shop items, parcels, etc. I don't see why just ore ingots can't be used. (Especially since we've just made processed ingots the currency as is).

 

2). Traders/Economists still need a way to be able to charge for goods other than coins. If these coins are taking up inventory space as is it would seem there is a maximum price that can be charged on an item or group of items already established by the game and not player demand. (Example 100 gold coins take up the same space as 100 swords, but swords sell for 5 gold each. I need to be able to charge swords instead). Let's say I have now my 500 gold worth of swords? Now what can I do I'm stuck I can't sell them for gold because I don't have the inventory space and I cannot convert swords into buildings in through the cash shop. (Or can I?) Inventory becomes so important, we need a way to be able to quickly turn around/exchange products to clear inventory.

 

~Calamity

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1. Yes, because if parcels and taxes can be paid for or bought with coins (if set by an in game price point that does not fluctuate or change), and VIP tickets can be used to buy coins and pay for taxes, we then have a de facto coin value rather than a subjective one (how much are chickens worth to you).

 

2. ACE is going to have to carefully monitor the price point of everything or it will spiral out of hand. They also need to consider the influx and inflation of coin into the economy if people are allowed to farm it uninterrupted in their EKs.

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1. No, makes the trading all the more realistic and coins are no longer just coins but gives a sense of a currency system.

 

2. Having a coin system makes it easier for players to adapt to the local economy and adds gimmicks to ways a campaign can be played. Yet PvP is driven by players no matter which system you have in place trading can't be affected and I think the best suggestion I can come up with is to put a limitation on ridiculous usage of coins. Coins or money in a lot of games simply have different designs but usage are all the same. I'd prefer if the coins are not just currency but materials that can be altered.

 

For example, perhaps there can be the choices for carrying sacs of gold coins, a treasure chest full of silver coins. No amount can be shown on the treasure chests or sacs to looters but only the owners so there is the chance looting possibility. I had another thought on a ridiculous idea which is that coins and minerals are interchangeable with a ratio balance. Like gold coins can be crafted from gold as to use as a currency in local shops that doesn't allow trading. If crafting materials are needed, gold or silver can be converted by through a crafter into gold blocks etc.

 

I am not sure if any of my suggestions have been mentioned already but these are the ones that I was particularly interested in.


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1) No, that said I still feel that coinage is not needed. If they are trying to establish a currency for cash shop items, parcels, etc. I don't see why just ore ingots can't be used. (Especially since we've just made processed ingots the currency as is).

 

2). Traders/Economists still need a way to be able to charge for goods other than coins. If these coins are taking up inventory space as is it would seem there is a maximum price that can be charged on an item or group of items already established by the game and not player demand. (Example 100 gold coins take up the same space as 100 swords, but swords sell for 5 gold each. I need to be able to charge swords instead). Let's say I have now my 500 gold worth of swords? Now what can I do I'm stuck I can't sell them for gold because I don't have the inventory space and I cannot convert swords into buildings in through the cash shop. (Or can I?) Inventory becomes so important, we need a way to be able to quickly turn around/exchange products to clear inventory.

 

~Calamity

 

Items like coins are bound to be highly stack-able, weigh very little, and take up less inventory space than almost any other item. Using coins as opposed to ingots will also allow players to make the most of what is meant to be a very scarce resource.

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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If coins are an inventory item, they will be subject to import rules in a campaign. It's possible there will be no currancy at the start of a

Items like coins are bound to be highly stack-able, weigh very little, and take up less inventory space than almost any other item. Using coins as opposed to ingots will also allow players to make the most of what is meant to be a very scarce resource.

In theory...

 

I would like more information on how the inventory system works. This is a must have to be partnered with this discussion of coinage. I'm assuming that unlike most MMOs we won't have access to an nearly unlimited magic coin purse that holds all our coins separate from our inventory.

 

Also edit: I wanted to add this:

 

Random thought and point of interest:

If coins are an inventory item, they will be subject to import rules in a campaign. It's possible there will be no currancy at the start of a campaign.

Depending on the world/ campaign rules and scarcity we may see the same products selling ing for different rates depending on campaign. If gold is readily available in one campaign vs copper in another campaign (within the same band) does this put some people at an advantage vs others?

Edited by calamity

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You know my stance, valor... good topic to bring to C&C though. Hopefully draegan won't drown you out.


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Much like real life, I have no problem and when I heard they didn't initially want to do it, I thought they were insane. Expansive and coherent trade needs a basis of currency to base the value of items on. If Steve is selling swords for iron, but Jim only takes Gold and both value those metals differently, we have a problem. A flatline of copper is worth 1, silver worth 25, and gold worth 100, is all we need. Organization is key to an MMO, we can't have trade being crazy. Bartering is good, and it is easier with coins with a set value than handing a guy a chicken, two boots and an ox for a single sword.

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You know my stance, valor... good topic to bring to C&C though. Hopefully draegan won't drown you out.

I think you've brought up a great point about some things that I don't want to share here as I want to hear how Draegan/Lake respond to it.

 

FYI, I'm actually not a fan of the direction this idea is headed without more information.  I'll be curious to see if it gets to a point where 'someone' calls in to set me straight.  That's the fun of these casts, the conversation rarely goes the direction you expect.  Big ticket item tonight though.

 

THIS POLL IS LOPSIDED!

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1. Yes, because if parcels and taxes can be paid for or bought with coins (if set by an in game price point that does not fluctuate or change), and VIP tickets can be used to buy coins and pay for taxes, we then have a de facto coin value rather than a subjective one (how much are chickens worth to you).

 

It's still market-driven, because the players will determine how many coins a "ticket" is worth.  If the market is suddenly flooded with "coins" (due to a Campaign ending, let's say) the relative value of those coins compared to tickets is going to go down... Meaning that you could trade one ticket for more "coins" today than you could yesterday.

 

FWIW, the same thing would have been true in the system before.  Just replace the word "coin" in the sentence above with "ore" (...or "stone" or "longsword" or "thrall" or "chicken.")

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

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FYI, I'm actually not a fan of the direction this idea is headed without more information. 

 

you can like it or not, but the whisky is gone and you ain't getting it back.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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It's still market-driven, because the players will determine how many coins a "ticket" is worth.  If the market is suddenly flooded with "coins" (due to a Campaign ending, let's say) the relative value of those coins compared to tickets is going to go down... Meaning that you could trade one ticket for more "coins" today than you could yesterday.

 

FWIW, the same thing would have been true in the system before.  Just replace the word "coin" in the sentence above with "ore" (...or "stone" or "longsword" or "thrall" or "chicken.")

 

Todd

ACE

 

 

...except you're tying an entire economic system to the floating value of the coin. Which in turn is controlled by the amount of VIP tickets and value of the parcels/buildings bought in the ACE store. That's besides the point of killing off an entire 'job' and player driven emergent gameplay/mechanics associated with a barter system.


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