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C&C Weekly Discussion/Poll: Coins

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I need chicken currency.

 

Crafter + coins + custom crests = very yes.

 

  • A trader walks into town and uses the coins of your enemy.  You suspect he's selling to both sides of the war and give him a warning.  He is.  Next time, to avoid suspicion, he works with his inside man to get the coins re-stamped before doing business.

 

  • You find an unidentified corpse in the woods.  Upon rifling through the pockets, you discover silver coins stamped with your liege's royal crest.  This man was part of your alliance.  His killers must be close by...

 

  • They were peculiar coins:  a chicken on one side, and an ornate 'Z' on the other.  By the gods.  Your eccentric customer could be none other than the fabled Zomnivore.  You still didn't understand his bizarre chicken obsession, but his coins were as good as any, and his presence was a good omen.

Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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that's a good write up. What I'm referring to is not buying resources that players bring in with them to the campaign, but buying resources as the campaign progresses. Nodes in campaigns are the major source of resources, so if I'm holding my own because I'm a zerg and know how to pick my corner but have so much gold pigeon-holed...I can effectively buy resources/fealty from within the campaign for exponentially larger amounts than what I'm carrying in gold. J Todd already stated it's an easier resource to carry. If LW is getting stamped out by LoTD in the campaigns by "Fall", and you know you're up against Zerg Guild 2,3,4...would you not try to buy out LW's resources, offering them safe passage to their embargo areas, and bolster yourself. If I was LW I'd take it just for the pure fact I won't lose everything and might not even make it to the embargo. This situation would not be as easy if there is no common currency for them to walk out with.

You're talking about a few different things here.

 

1. I was under the assumption that your issue was with gold coins as currency and the ability of a zerg guild to bring into a campaign a ton of gold coin to hold onto and buy a bunch of resources within a campaign.  By bringin in as much gold coin as you can to buy resources, you'd be putting yourself in an early hole against your competition who may be bringing in building materials/weapons/gear.  That is why I assumed an immediate conversion of gold to resources to start a campaign.  Otherwise, you're gimping yourself.

 

2. As campaigns unfold, and we'll assume someone has hoarded a bunch of gold coin, if Guild A sees they are going to lose and so decide to swear fealty to someone so they can win something.... and Zerg A offers them 500 coins for all their resources and allied support.  You're saying that the existence of gold coins makes it easier to use them to facilitate this situation.

 

I guess I can see that, but the storage and transport of wealth is ALWAYS going to be the highest form of Risk within a campaign.  Thus, yes.. it makes it easier to transfer wealth from one entity to the other, but it also makes it easier to steal that wealth from them both.  I view the Risk and the Reward both increasing equally in this situation.

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You're talking about a few different things here.

It's just additional points here, I haven't been just sticking to one...but trying to give as many reasons as I can for why this is not a good idea. My main concern still stands as per my very first post on this subject:

 

Feels like a cop out, and [at worse, but not suspected] hopefully not a path to leading to ACE monetizing in game currency on top of VIP tickets.

A. The system they advertised was too intricate so they decided to cop out and go the easy way.

 

B. They unified the economy in order to make it easier to monetize (on top of initial game purchase, VIP, and Cash Shop aesthetics/EK items).

 

 

J Todd has been extremely successful in raking those kiddos for money over at Wizard101 and it uses the same currency to resource conversion. They might not directly sell VIP for coins, but this is nothing but a precursor. An awesome player-driven economic system was cast to the wayside for easier development and monetization. It might not show now, but it's my prediction...just from someone, like you, who has been burned before.

 

 

 

 

 

e: unintentional smiley faces tr*oll me.

Edited by primal

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It's just additional points here, I haven't been just sticking to one...but trying to give as many reasons as I can for why this is not a good idea. My main concern still stands as per my very first post on this subject:

 

A) The system they advertised was too intricate so they decided to cop out and go the easy way.

 

B) They unified the economy in order to make it easier to monetize (on top of initial game purchase, VIP, and Cash Shop aesthetics/EK items).

 

 

J Todd has been extremely successful in raking those kiddos for money over at Wizard101 and it uses the same currency to resource conversion. They might not directly sell VIP for coins, but this is nothing but a precursor. An awesome player-driven economic system was cast to the wayside for easier development and monetization. It might not show now, but it's my prediction...just from someone, like you, who has been burned before.

 

 

I'm forced to take what Todd's said as truth, and with that, I've done my best to follow this rabbit as deep down the "what if" hole as I can and I see plenty of ways for players to overcome the inclusion of an overarching currency.  Gold coins currently valued at what they can buy (cash items/upkeep) and as it stands, none of those things have any weight inside campaigns.

 

Now, I guess that if you're large enough to do everything inside a campaign as well as save up coins, they could hold more value to people who are projected to lose, as they are the easiest form of currency to spend.  If they are going to lose, and you are wanting to pay them for their resources/help, then I'm assuming you are going to lose as well and could find yourself paying a steep price for assistance.  That of course is a risk because they could always just take your money and go help someone else.

 

Any way I try to work out how coins could provide a Zerg an advantage in game, I always find equal risk to their strategy.

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I really don't see how forcing vendors to price things in Coins instead of Currency-of-the-Month changes anything.

 

Because gold coins aren't directly tied to RL cash, it doesn't.  Players who don't care about EK's can still barter among themselves and avoid whatever value loss they would have had in converting their resources to gold coins to buy equipment.

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Answers and info from the devs always seems to lead to more questions.

 

---Reading the OP and it seems to say that there will be one currency that can be made from specific types of ores.  If this could be expanded to also include customized currency I can see things at least being more interesting.  Crafters can have to specify how their unique currency translates into the standard CF currency when they make it and the exchange ratio can be part of the coin's info.  The point of having customized currency is to reward players for shopping at a particular EK or campaign store.  Also guilds can mint coins that only can be used at their EK or campaign stores, making looting them and carrying them pointless for competing guilds.

 

---I will be focusing more on bartering than dealing in coins.  My question still remains (and is likely to remain for a while until there is more thrall info) as to whether our vendors will be able to accept resources and player items for goods being sold or if we can only accept coins in our vendors.  I can see setting up a vendor with a lot of different options to buy things based on what is currently needed by my guild.


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Since you put it that way, one question for you. Would it still be possible to purchase parcels with resources? I understand that doing so would set a resources to gold cost ratio, but I personally like options when I do things. From your explanation about it, it would seem the opt of paying for parcel with resources feature is not going to be in there. Would gimp the lower tier players, but then again you can't make progress without cracking a few skulls.

 

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The vast majority of players are in the lower tier.  Careful whose heads you crack.  Having tiered spending like this creates a similar situation to real life.  There will be the poor, the middle class, the wealthy, and the great powers.  The divide itself isn't terrible as long as the upper classes give back to the lower ones by doing things like furthering the game's existence and development.  Almost all free to play games operate on the principle that 1% of the players pay the majority of the costs for the other 99%.  However if it gets taken too far, you get discontent, rebellion, and revolution -- which in the gaming community just leads to forum screaming and mass quitting.

 

Kyutaru

S.H.I.E.L.D.

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I'm curious, I keep seeing this mentioned both here on the forums and on the podcast. Why does everyone assume the embargo and import limits will mean ek's will have no influence on campaign economies? I can think of a few ways rich players could buy themselves an advantage, such as this example:

 

“Hey primal I see you have yourself a big pile of useful resources in campaign x, would you like to trade me some for a vip ticket/big pile of gold coins I have back in my ek?“ This would involve direct trading (probably using ek alts,) and a degree of trust but I can see these sorts of deals happening.

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The vast majority of players are in the lower tier.  Careful whose heads you crack.  Having tiered spending like this creates a similar situation to real life.  There will be the poor, the middle class, the wealthy, and the great powers.  The divide itself isn't terrible as long as the upper classes give back to the lower ones by doing things like furthering the game's existence and development.  Almost all free to play games operate on the principle that 1% of the players pay the majority of the costs for the other 99%.  However if it gets taken too far, you get discontent, rebellion, and revolution -- which in the gaming community just leads to forum screaming and mass quitting.

 

Kyutaru

S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

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I'm curious, I keep seeing this mentioned both here on the forums and on the podcast. Why does everyone assume the embargo and import limits will mean ek's will have no influence on campaign economies? I can think of a few ways rich players could buy themselves an advantage, such as this example:

 

“Hey primal I see you have yourself a big pile of useful resources in campaign x, would you like to trade me some for a vip ticket/big pile of gold coins I have back in my ek?“ This would involve direct trading (probably using ek alts,) and a degree of trust but I can see these sorts of deals happening.

Import rules prevent someone from going into a campaign with an advantage because everyone effectively starts at the same point.

 

I think the question is: Would someone pay RL money for resources and allies when they can negotiate acquiring those things for free by agreeing to ally the people whom you'd buy resources from.

 

They dont get anything from a campaign if they lose, so they'll sign up with you and offer up their support just to win... You'd not even need to pay them.

 

I mean, it is no different than offering to PayPal someone money to have them help you win a campaign. Will some people do it, yes. Will some people benefit from it, yes. Will some people get ripped off from it, yes.

 

I see enough value However in simply allying to win that people would be literally be throwing money away on buying mercs.

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I'm curious, I keep seeing this mentioned both here on the forums and on the podcast. Why does everyone assume the embargo and import limits will mean ek's will have no influence on campaign economies? I can think of a few ways rich players could buy themselves an advantage, such as this example:

 

“Hey primal I see you have yourself a big pile of useful resources in campaign x, would you like to trade me some for a vip ticket/big pile of gold coins I have back in my ek?“ This would involve direct trading (probably using ek alts,) and a degree of trust but I can see these sorts of deals happening.

 

This was discussed quite often a few months ago.

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Far too much info missing on the whole economy.

 

Let's face it, the core game might be PvP with combat being the largest concern of the game, but the economy goes hand in hand with the whole game.

There is ways I can see that coin values can be manipulated.

 

We are yet to find out how VIP is going to be sold/used. 

Todd states that you can't use gold to buy VIP but I can see that there will be ways around all this. 

 

So, I guess I'll wait to see more info on the VIP's because ultimately the VIP's will rule all.


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Todd states that you can't use gold to buy VIP but I can see that there will be ways around all this. 

 

I think you're missunderstanding something here.

 

When he says you can't buy it with coins, that means you cannot directly buy it from ACE with coins.

Every VIP ticket will be paid with $/€/£/etc.

What the guy then does, is up to him/her, aka he can theoretically sell it for coins.

Edited by freeze

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I think you're missunderstanding something here.

 

When he says you can't buy it with coins, that means you cannot directly buy it from ACE with coins.

Every VIP ticket will be paid with $/€/£/etc.

What the guy then does, is up to him/her, aka he can theoretically sell it for coins.

He did also mention that VIP would not be able to be laundered directly into coins, but into things like parcels in the EKs. Again, the value of parcels will remain relative to people who want a big EK.

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---I will be focusing more on bartering than dealing in coins.  My question still remains (and is likely to remain for a while until there is more thrall info) as to whether our vendors will be able to accept resources and player items for goods being sold or if we can only accept coins in our vendors.  I can see setting up a vendor with a lot of different options to buy things based on what is currently needed by my guild.

 

This has basically been answered with a "no". In fact, one of their primary reasons for creating a currency was for coding player owned NPC vendors

 

Far too much info missing on the whole economy.

 

Let's face it, the core game might be PvP with combat being the largest concern of the game, but the economy goes hand in hand with the whole game.

There is ways I can see that coin values can be manipulated.

 

 

The campaigns are the primary focus of the game and combat is the jumping off point. Again, I think self proclaimed "hardcore PvPers" are getting a bit over their skis with how much they are going to be able to avoid non-combat interaction and gameplay. The campaigns are meant to be fully fleshed out MMORPG worlds themselves, not just extended battlegrounds.

Edited by ColdSlither

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I think you're missunderstanding something here.

 

When he says you can't buy it with coins, that means you cannot directly buy it from ACE with coins.

Every VIP ticket will be paid with $/€/£/etc.

What the guy then does, is up to him/her, aka he can theoretically sell it for coins.

I totally understand that Freeze. 

None of it is sitting easy with me.


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He did also mention that VIP would not be able to be laundered directly into coins, but into things like parcels in the EKs. Again, the value of parcels will remain relative to people who want a big EK.

 

Ya, they (ACE) will not give you a method to launder it.

But it certainly will be possible through a 3rd party.

 

We know that these tickets will be tradable, that has been stated really early on.

What we use as payment for the tickets will be completely up to us. And I'm 100% sure people will make a huge profit when swapping VIP tickets, coins and parcels around.

 

 

I totally understand that Freeze. 

None of it is sitting easy with me.

 

but we've known that for months...

the only thing that's new is, that we now have a confirmed form of currency.

=/

Edited by freeze

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