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C&C Weekly Discussion/Poll: Coins

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you can like it or not, but the whisky is gone and you ain't getting it back.

 

Todd

ACE

 

Love it ... I cant wait to take peoples coins and ore off their corpses


- Guess my profile picture was too much for the forum Mod... I best leave it blank I already picked the least offensive one I had!

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Here's a question I want answered: Where is Raph Koster, and why wasn't he able to figure out a barter economic system?

Since he was advising the economic side, and by inference is the one who suggested the barter system, what made him think it was too damn hard to implement? The guys a legend, I really didn't think he'd say "That's annoying" or no one wants to manage vendors as per the first paragraph of today's news article. I mean, really?


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Upgrading/Buying/Upkeep for castles/fortresses/camps are related to a feasible amount of resources depending on the building? Wooden build? Requires more wood than clay/stone. Castle? Requires a lot more stone than clay/wood. Taxes for parcels could be tied to the amount of iron/gold/ore as an (EXTREMELY SMALL) percentage of how much is available to players unused in the market.

 

By it being spread out over tens of types of resources instead of (1) type of coin, you are dealing with a more flexible market. Instead of it all being based on the value of the coin. This makes the materials you use for crafting worth more in the bartering system by a comparison of how much is available, than to the worth of the coin....which again is tied to how much VIP tickets ACE sells and the price point of Parcels/builds in their store.

I am pretty sure we would have figured out a set value for things. That is our nature. Be it stones or chickens.

This would have given the same problems.

 

As for the value of different resources being higher in a barter system. How so?

If I didn't have enough wood, I would have had to barter for some with something else. I would be pretty consistent with the worth of it though.

The only thing that have changed is, that now we can all agree on currency being the baseline.

All the other resources should still be in play too.

 

About the last point, wasn't it expected that we could obtain parcels and buildings from other places than the store?

And wouldn't they then have had a "worth" tied to them, relative to what they cost?

Since we would have decided what we used as currency (before actual currency) would those prices not have effected how much stone, wood, marble etc would have been worth also?

 

I am struggling to see the problem, but I do want to understand.

As I see it, the currency is simply another player obtained resource, that can be crafted into an item that we all decide to use when we buy and sell.

The value of it might be effected by the store items, but that was bound to happen with anything we used to buy and sell with.

In my opinion, the real difference is in how useful this currency will be in campaigns. I see very little value in it in the campaigns, compared to resources you can actually build or craft with.

Which means that it will have be an odd thing to have in the place where it is obtained.

Maybe we wont even be crafting the currency in the campaigns much, but rather keep the resources raw. Then the people interested in the EKs could export it and craft it into coins at their EKs.

I mean, after all, what are you going to buy in a campaign?


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Isolated no, but how it interacts with real money (and NPC vendors, but Ill leave that argument out of this thread for now) is cause for concern.

But, stones and chickens would have interacted with the real money before, right?


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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I am pretty sure we would have figured out a set value for things. That is our nature. Be it stones or chickens.

This would have given the same problems.

 

As for the value of different resources being higher in a barter system. How so?

If I didn't have enough wood, I would have had to barter for some with something else. I would be pretty consistent with the worth of it though.

The only thing that have changed is, that now we can all agree on currency being the baseline.

All the other resources should still be in play too.

 

About the last point, wasn't it expected that we could obtain parcels and buildings from other places than the store?

And wouldn't they then have had a "worth" tied to them, relative to what they cost?

Since we would have decided what we used as currency (before actual currency) would those prices not have effected how much stone, wood, marble etc would have been worth also?

 

I am struggling to see the problem, but I do want to understand.

As I see it, the currency is simply another player obtained resource, that can be crafted into an item that we all decide to use when we buy and sell.

The value of it might be effected by the store items, but that was bound to happen with anything we used to buy and sell with.

In my opinion, the real difference is in how useful this currency will be in campaigns. I see very little value in it in the campaigns, compared to resources you can actually build or craft with.

Which means that it will have be an odd thing to have in the place where it is obtained.

Maybe we wont even be crafting the currency in the campaigns much, but rather keep the resources raw. Then the people interested in the EKs could export it and craft it into coins at their EKs.

I mean, after all, what are you going to buy in a campaign?

 

I feel like I've answered all this before already today. Not trying to be an a*ss, but legitimately getting worn down by monotony lol.


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

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you can like it or not, but the whisky is gone and you ain't getting it back.

 

Todd

ACE

But I could create my own whiskey...............................Just kidding I like the new coin system. It's different than other MMO's. I like how you can create coins from ore that should give crafting a boost as well for those that don't like to do it often. 

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Well, this just confirmed my future playstyle.  Rob the rich to feed the poor.  I hope player trading is something that happens a lot in campaigns because stalking the popular marketplaces is going to happen.

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Well, this just confirmed my future playstyle. Rob the rich to feed the poor. I hope player trading is something that happens a lot in campaigns because stalking the popular marketplaces is going to happen.

You are going to rob the EKS?

Good luck


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Yes, but we didn't know the extent to which they would interact, so it was no use to voice any concern.

Values are still determined by us the players though. Just because there is a standard coin we all will use doesn't mean everything will always be valued at the same exact price. Its still a player to player based economy and still supply and demand mechanics in play, nothing has changed in that regard.

Edited by pang

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I feel like I've answered all this before already today. Not trying to be an a*ss, but legitimately getting worn down by monotony lol.

Thats ok. 

 

I am sure the discussion will go on for days :)


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Well, this just confirmed my future playstyle.  Rob the rich to feed the poor.  I hope player trading is something that happens a lot in campaigns because stalking the popular marketplaces is going to happen.

I like your analysis that means that you can become a modern day Robin Hood in the game ^^

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I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about. If not coins the players would create some other currency and the game would be in essentially the same state. the sky is falling btw.

Q: Have you played a game with bartering as it's economy?

 

The player currency is always several items, always fluctuates, and always changes with FoTM equip and the introduction of new items.


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
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Yes, but we didn't know the extent to which they would interact, so it was no use to voice any concern.

Ok. If we take the new currency out of the equation and focus on your problem.

 

If we could buy things from the store with RW money AND could buy them with... stones (or whatever was decided by us), then that problem still remains.

By your account, every price would be set by the RW value of the things we could buy in the store.

Which leaks over to paying taxes with stones/wood, because they would also set what everything else would be worth.

 

This is why I said that the currency was not really the problem then.

 

We can discuss if it is a problem that RW money and in game resources are mixed.

I don't think it really is, as long as all in game resources are obtained by the players in a hostile area of the game.

There need to be a chance of the resources to be destroyed or lost also.

I am very confident that the campaigns and embargo system will sort this out.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Q: Have you played a game with bartering as it's economy?

 

The player currency is always several items, always fluctuates, and always changes with FoTM equip and the introduction of new items.

This is true.

Bartering creates a more complex system, which can be fun.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Values are still determined by us the players though. Just because there is a standard coin we all will use doesn't mean everything will always be valued at the same exact price. Its still a player to player based economy and still supply and demand mechanics in play, nothing has changed in that regard.

 

The fact that you can use both coins as well as real money to buy certain items (parcels, store items etc) gives coins a real money reference value, a fixed unchanging value that the player absolutely can not influence.

 

Say this value is 0.1$ per coin (hypothetical ratio), would you buy VIP tickets with coin at a 0.05$ rate? Would you at 0.2$? If the value is lower than the reference value, players are incentivized to not buy VIP with real money but with coins, causing the value to go up. If the value is higher than the reference value, it becomes more worthwhile to buy VIP tickets, sell them for coins and buy store items and parcels with coins rather than buying them outright with real money. This incentivizes players to buy VIP tickets with real money and sell them for coin to get store items and parcels at higher value. Do you see how in both cases the value of the coin converges back to the reference value? Its common sense I would almost say and the only thing that prevents this from happening is if either VIP tickets or store items are worthless to a vast majority of the playerbase.

 

It may not be a problem or it may be. I don't know, but it is deff a reason to be at least a little concerned.

Edited by Kalsomir

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Ok. If we take the new currency out of the equation and focus on your problem.

 

If we could buy things from the store with RW money AND could buy them with... stones (or whatever was decided by us), then that problem still remains.

By your account, every price would be set by the RW value of the things we could buy in the store.

Which leaks over to paying taxes with stones/wood, because they would also set what everything else would be worth.

 

This is why I said that the currency was not really the problem then.

 

We can discuss if it is a problem that RW money and in game resources are mixed.

I don't think it really is, as long as all in game resources are obtained by the players in a hostile area of the game.

There need to be a chance of the resources to be destroyed or lost also.

I am very confident that the campaigns and embargo system will sort this out.

I never said outright currency alone was the problem (maybe in my first reaction, but I came to senses).

 

Regarding the bolded part, I have seen to many ambitious projects flop to be confident. We have almost no information so instead of being confident I try to give ACE as many angles possible. 

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