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Sinij

30 minutes gameplay

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I played scout, I remember running for what felt like forever looking for someone for my group to fight. I don't want to spend quite as much time just running around, been there, done that. I now value my time a lot more.

*gets out hypnotoad*

 

Opennnnn your minnnnnddddd to other options than fast travel and battlegrounds as the annnnnnnswer...

 

There are a ton of ways to hop in and PvP without the devs making limited structures that guarantee it or make the game ezmode by default.  There are a lot of good ideas in this thread that will provide you with PvP beyond your wildest dreams.  It's a matter of thinking outside the box/within the sandbox.

 

Just watch hypnotoad and let your mind go freeeeeeee


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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There most certainly should NOT be any indicators of where fights are happening. The entire point of a THRONE WAR is that you kill your enemies without the others in the area knowing about it. Because while you are killing one enemy, someone else can attack your keep.

 

Your map should only show the very basics, nothing else. If you want "quick" PvP, then run kamikaze style at the nearest enemy keep. point of interest, resource location. These will be your hotspots as people will always be at them. Also, quick PvP with no point will HURT YOU in the long run. As you die and damage your equipment it loses durability you cannot get back, you can repair it only so much, every repair will lose you some durability so you will eventually lose your gear. Burning durability on pointless pvp will make you a detriment to your guild and they won't help equip you with as good of gear because of it. Fight for things that is worth it that you have a chance of taking over or bide your time till you can. or use very basic gear for your PvP fix.

 

You want "quick" PvP you can jump in and out of, go find a battleground game like WoW or TOR. Crowfall you play for the long haul not the quick fix.

Edited by Nempo

"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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There most certainly should NOT be any indicators of where fights are happening. The entire point of a THRONE WAR is that you kill your enemies without the others in the area knowing about it. Because while you are killing one enemy, someone else can attack your keep.

I'm remembering the map they showed a while back that had what seemed to be "fronts" and faction territory shaded in with different colors.  I wonder if that was just part of the pre pre pre alpha stuff that mostly is getting tossed or if they're thinking that the general map will show who owns what territory. A lot can be learned if so - as in edge of territory plus POI equals heavy PvP area.

 

I hear you though about keeping info close to the vest when it comes to where forces are deployed.


pixS8Wt.jpg


The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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If you only have 30 min or an hour to play,do some roaming,work on your build,mine some nodes.

 

Or.....stock up on Dramamine,dose the family and play for the evening!

 

Sadly this mentality of "well I don't have a ton of play time,but I want it all" just isn't fair or viable.

 

Short game time calls for quick tasks.

 

As always...imho

 

Hyjaxx

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Maybe I was unclear in my last post (or last few posts). I don't want a time limit.  I'm saying what Psyentific just said very well.  There should be some way for me (and the thousands of players like me) to have fun with a short amount of time.  Yes, I can mine for 30 min or go look at buildings or go fight people.  All of that is fun and great, please ACE let me do those things.  But I need to be able to log in, get to that place to do those things, and then get somewhere else to log out safely in 30 min (doesn't have to be 30 min but that's the thread title).  I don't mind doing all of that in the short time, it just needs to flow nice.

There are things ACE cannot, and should not try to control.

ACE's job here would be to add alot of exciting and good mechanics to the game. But ACE cannot control the time it takes to make a caravan run, it all depends on how far the players build cities. But if there is enough mechanics, im quite sure at least 1 mechanic can be done in 30 munites. But again, this is not in ACE's control and trying to control it will kill some sandbox elements of the game.

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I agree with Jihan... Even if they instituted a shadowbane/UO esque instatravel system be it summoning or gates... The problem revolves around that since PvP is the majority of the game that means players are the content. If you play during non peak hours, less players online fighting, less content for you to participate in. When you are playing a WoW type game that the entire game is based around pve content that requires little to no outside participation or tiny 5-25 minute mini PvP maps which really isn't what crowfall is designed around.

I think the development of "hotspots" on the maps that people tend to lurk around is the best you can hope for so you will always have an aiming point to head towards for quick PvP.

Edited by wargasmo

"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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I am pretty sure that people enjoy travelling around the map only during the exploration phase, when everything around you is new and mysterious. After a while travelling becomes a chore, and a waste of time. I remember a friend showing me Darkfall, we just logged in and ran around for like 20 minutes, meeting only a couple people on that huge land area we covered. That was quite a depressing experience.

 

With its season change system, Crowfall could have something like this:

 

1.) Spring - No fast travel available, you run around, gather resources, claim POIs, explore. The map is new to you, simply running around looking at new lanscape is fun. You get into fights or group hugging sessions with your neighbours.

 

2.) Summer - Hunger gates appear throughout the world, you can travel by entering one gate and exiting another. Their throughput is minimal, for example 3 characters every 6 minutes ( or since they are hunger gates, they may consume heath of each additional character that passes in a given period of time, ultimately killing like the fifth guy or so).They hardly offer any time advantage when porting around full groups. You use them to cycle through the hotspots or travel around when alone or in a really small group. Gates are not potent enough to help you with fighting for POIs because they effectively split your group due to throughput limitations. The map is for the most part or at least partially explored and running around starts to hold less and less value for you.

 

3.)'Autumn - same as summer or maybe the throughput of the gates increases a little, making them viable to carry over full group a little faster.

 

3.) Winter - no limitations on the throughput of the hunger gates, whole armies can travel through them at once. You can use them to carry over massive amounts of troops to capture POIs and siege.

 

There shouldnt be too many Hunger gates, just enough so the travel distance to any part of the world.does not exceed 15-20-30minutes.

 

The gates can physically grow starting at human size in summer and ending as huge portals in winter.

 

You should only be abke to use hunger gates to port to the areas you have previously explored.

 

You might be required to make 2-3 gate hops before arriving to your destination, each hop getting you closer and closer.

 

Various hunger creatures could spawn out and near those gates, making their use a bit more complicated.

 

Hunger gates may or may not be used to get caravans and/or mounts through.

 

This will help to prevent zerging in the beginnig of the campaign, since travelling in small hit and run groups will be easier. Promote warfare in later stages by providing additional means of transporting troops in the end of campaign. It will reduce wasteful activities that eventually lose all the value to the player as the game progresses (running around) leaving that time to be spent on something that actually matters, thus making the player more satisfied and wanting more of the game.

 

 

Soz for the typos, posting from the phone.

 

artlimited_img424993_m.jpg

Edited by rajah

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One point that people here seem to be overlooking: getting in pointless fights will not win you campaigns. If you want fast travel so that you can go find some PVP then you're not playing to win. While you're wasting your time 6v6ing at the crossroads or wherever the designated arena location is, somebody else is accomplishing something strategically useful.

 

You should not be looking for fights with other people who are also looking for fights, just so you can have a fight. You should be looking for an enemy caravan, or a poorly defended rock quarry, or for that gang of brigands who just burned down your sawmill and is hoofing it homeward with your precious lumber. Fast travel doesn't play into that dynamic at all.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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One point that people here seem to be overlooking: getting in pointless fights will not win you campaigns. If you want fast travel so that you can go find some PVP then you're not playing to win. While you're wasting your time 6v6ing at the crossroads or wherever the designated arena location is, somebody else is accomplishing something strategically useful.

 

You should not be looking for fights with other people who are also looking for fights, just so you can have a fight. You should be looking for an enemy caravan, or a poorly defended rock quarry, or for that gang of brigands who just burned down your sawmill and is hoofing it homeward with your precious lumber. Fast travel doesn't play into that dynamic at all.

 

 

Indeed. The OP wants to be able to do "something meaningful" in 30 minutes. This will very likely be possible.

 

Random fights probably aren't meaningful in this game, though.

 

If you want to be able to have a "meaningful PvP battle" in any given time that you log on, I don't think that's going to be guaranteed. And that's whether you log on for 30 minutes or for 4 hours.  That's just the nature of a player driven game, without NPC quests driving your advancements. I'd add to Jihan's point and say that it's more meaningful to be doing many non-combat activities in those short stretches.  Not just looking for those rock quarries or brigands, but repairing your destroyed sawmill or caravaning the wood from your mill back to your base.

 

Honestly, if you need a guaranteed PvP battle every time you log on, one of the RvR campaigns might be better for you. I could see places of near constant battle popping up there.

Edited by ColdSlither

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What is meaningful?

Each has their own opinion,

but yours is so wrong.

"meaningful" is not that what makes you win, it is that what makes you keep playing Edited by rajah

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I am pretty sure that people enjoy travelling around the map only during the exploration phase, when everything around you is new and mysterious. After a while travelling becomes a chore, and a waste of time. I remember a friend showing me Darkfall, we just logged in and ran around for like 20 minutes, meeting only a couple people on that huge land area we covered. That was quite a depressing experience.

 

With its season change system, Crowfall could have something like this:

 

1.) Spring - No fast travel available, you run around, gather resources, claim POIs, explore. The map is new to you, simply running around looking at new lanscape is fun. You get into fights or group hugging sessions with your neighbours.

 

2.) Summer - Hunger gates appear throughout the world, you can travel by entering one gate and exiting another. Their throughput is minimal, for example 3 characters every 6 minutes ( or since they are hunger gates, they may consume heath of each additional character that passes in a given period of time, ultimately killing like the fifth guy or so).They hardly offer any time advantage when porting around full groups. You use them to cycle through the hotspots or travel around when alone or in a really small group. Gates are not potent enough to help you with fighting for POIs because they effectively split your group due to throughput limitations. The map is for the most part or at least partially explored and running around starts to hold less and less value for you.

 

3.)'Autumn - same as summer or maybe the throughput of the gates increases a little, making them viable to carry over full group a little faster.

 

3.) Winter - no limitations on the throughput of the hunger gates, whole armies can travel through them at once. You can use them to carry over massive amounts of troops to capture POIs and siege.

 

There shouldnt be too many Hunger gates, just enough so the travel distance to any part of the world.does not exceed 15-20-30minutes.

 

The gates can physically grow starting at human size in summer and ending as huge portals in winter.

 

You should only be abke to use hunger gates to port to the areas you have previously explored.

 

You might be required to make 2-3 gate hops before arriving to your destination, each hop getting you closer and closer.

 

Various hunger creatures could spawn out and near those gates, making their use a bit more complicated.

 

Hunger gates may or may not be used to get caravans and/or mounts through.

 

This will help to prevent zerging in the beginnig of the campaign, since travelling in small hit and run groups will be easier. Promote warfare in later stages by providing additional means of transporting troops in the end of campaign. It will reduce wasteful activities that eventually lose all the value to the player as the game progresses (running around) leaving that time to be spent on something that actually matters, thus making the player more satisfied and wanting more of the game.

 

 

Soz for the typos, posting from the phone.

 

artlimited_img424993_m.jpg

Problem is , it kills the risk/reward gameplay. In fact it can end up turning game into a battleground warfare game. Traveling with an army should be a risk as it becomes winter, with the outside world becoming more dangerous, winning a war can win you the game but losing it can make you lose a campaign aswell.

 

Im pretty sure with auto-generated worlds, with constantly chancing enviorenment, traveling around will always stay as an interesting thing to do. Especially since every campaign have their own world. Any kind of teleporting can have drastic impact on risk/reward. And without the risk/reward scenerio, it will become more like cod. Lack of strategy, mindlessly zerging around, eventually will end up being a boring pvp game.

 

ESO would be a good example. That game supports some level of strategy but because of the way its designed, people prefer zerging instead. That is because there is almost no risk/reward situation in that game.

 

And no, limitations wont really function as one wants them to function. Guilds will just capture them and put insanely high price cost for traveling.

 

There really are, much better ways of handling such stuff. For example zeppelins would be one of them.

Edited by Eren

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Problem is , it kills the risk/reward gameplay. In fact it can end up turning game into a battleground warfare game. Traveling with an army should be a risk as it becomes winter, with the outside world becoming more dangerous, winning a war can win you the game but losing it can make you lose a campaign aswell.

 

Im pretty sure with auto-generated worlds, with constantly chancing enviorenment, traveling around will always stay as an interesting thing to do. Especially since every campaign have their own world. Any kind of teleporting can have drastic impact on risk/reward. And without the risk/reward scenerio, it will become more like cod. Lack of strategy, mindlessly zerging around, eventually will end up being a boring pvp game.

 

ESO would be a good example. That game supports some level of strategy but because of the way its designed, people prefer zerging instead. That is because there is almost no risk/reward situation in that game.

 

And no, limitations wont really function as one wants them to function. Guilds will just capture them and put insanely high price cost for traveling.

 

There really are, much better ways of handling such stuff. For example zeppelins would be one of them.

"Traveling with an army" concept sounds exciting only on paper, in reality you will simply have to run for 30 minutes with 40 other people.

 

Risk/ reward is not broken in any way by what the gate system I suggested, you can still be ambushed at the gate as much as overrun in the fields, with an alternative mean of travel you only get more choises to build your strategy with, and those choises are not inherently less risky.

 

Running around IS boring, at least for me it is. Its fun only when I explore the area or when there is actually something to do on the run like if there is a high possibility of meeting a target to attack. Simply getting from point A to point B, is not fun.

 

Mindless zerging is not likely to happen alot, because if you zerg mindlessly you will inevitably lose to somebody who zergs mindfully, strategies will be employed, and more travelling choises means more possible strategies.

 

If somebody "captures" a gate and sits there holding it, he becomes a sitting duck, just get some friends and take the loot.

 

 

Zeppelins where you can fight and thow em down to the ground actually sounds like an epic idea, that could be a player made structure, possibly.

Edited by rajah

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This is a throne war, not a combat simulator. Wars are long, filled with all kinds of posturing and movement that gets you a net zero gain. If you want instant travel Go find a BG game.

 

While you are travelling and bored and not paying attention, I will happily kill you for thinking travelling is boring. Then continue on my merry way. You hate travelling? Build closer to your enemies, I'm sure they will enjoy the shorter trek to destroy your structures too.

 

Distance is part of the strategy, if I build far enough away from my enemies short sighted individuals that get bored easily will wander off long before you get to me and my scouts can pick off the stragglers. It also puts you a long way off from your supplies.

 

Instant travel KILLS PvP games quickly due to the entire place becomes a BG and if you aren't in specific spots you essentially find no-one.


"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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This is a throne war, not a combat simulator. Wars are long, filled with all kinds of posturing and movement that gets you a net zero gain. If you want instant travel Go find a BG game.

 

Instant travel was in every worthwhile non faction PvP game (UO amd SB), and it did not KILL them quickly or was not even close to it. I am not sure where are you getting that reference to BG from. You are 100% wrong there.

 

And I will be paying attention while travelling, the problem is that I will be forced to play attention to something I absolutely do not care about. Do that often enough and you will lose all your customer base soner than later.

 

So a throne war is a fantasy kindom is not about combat ? What ismthe difeerence netween a throne war and a combat simulator ? If we were to "simulate a medieval throne war" You'd need king lineages, Italian bankers, peasants, navy, among many other things.

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Cater to people who don't have a lot of time to log in and you get gw2 EOTM.

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/6220-polls-age-games-played-favourite-role/

 

The poll above shows that most people posting here fall into the age group where they normally should not have too much free time to spend it all ona game, either due to studying or working etc.

 

If you do not consider that, eventually you will make majority (or the significant share) of your players unhappy and force them to adopt a different activity. That is the reality.

 

Thinking about it again, I think this is one of roots of the success that moba type games had lately, general player base gets older, they have less time to spend, and they turn to games that provide instant fun wihout any non value added activities. Of course its armchair level analytics.

Edited by rajah

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