Making Uncontested Bloodstones harder

[Sinij 704]

I proposed this idea in 30 minutes thread, but felt it deserves its own thread.

 

What happens if a bloodstone drops within campaign, but it isn't contested? There could be multiple reasons for this - it could be that some big siege going on at the same time, it could be that it is holiday travel day and nobody is on, or some other reason. This will end up with a group of players getting together, then doing a boring walk home. Boring and not something you want to reward with a campaign victory point.

 

I suggest implementing following system to mitigate such occasions, plus to make it more interesting even when stones are contested.

 

I propose designing a system, where as a player you have an option to 'haunt as a thrall'. Basically, you play as a 'monster', where you spawn in the area and get to attack blood stone carriers and any other player in the vicinity. You get to keep your character's abilities, and the game teleports you somewhere in the proximity of the action. When 'haunting' you don't see player names, don't have your own name or guild crest displayed, and you can't attack your fellow 'thralls'. You also can't access regular in-game communication channels, instead you have your own dedicated chat channel.

 

The game should constantly spawn 'thralls' out of the queue (and there might be multiple events going on at the same time) every time bloodstone is carried. As a thrall, you get small reward every time you kill a player (but can't loot them), or big reward if you manage to destroy the bloodstone. You get no rewards if you die as a thrall, but you also don't lose anything.

 

As guild that carrying bloodstone, you have to worry about PUG thralls. They are random classes, and are not coordinated, but they constantly spawn. If you don't actively hunt them down, the numbers can swell to the point that they can overrun you. If you are attacked by other guild, then you potentially end up in 3-way fight. Otherwise, you will have to keep fighting them off until you 'cap' your bloodstone. No matter what, there always be a thrall or two lurking around looking to kill you.

[Psyentific 463]

What purpose does this serve?

If I wanted to contest a bloodstone, I would do it with my own character and my own guild. If I didn't want to, I sure as heck wouldn't sign up to do it with a bunch of random pubbies.

Why is there a queue at all? That's completely at-odds with Crowfall's overall design; We don't have queues for anything else, so why make a specific system just for this one subfeature?

What significant threat would a reasonably co-ordinated guild (ie one in a position to make plays for bloodstones) face from a horde of vaguely-allied randoms? My five guys, all on teamspeak and calling targets are going to do just fine against five randoms, and probably put up a good fight against seven or eight depending on how good we are or how bad they are. Even moreso considering that the pubbies aren't necessarily a coherent force, while we're all grouped around the bloodstone.

Even then, let's assume the pubbies win. What would a bunch of random pubbies do with a bloodstone? Devolve into squabbling?

Edited May 18, 2015 by Psyentific

[Sinij 704]

What purpose does this serve?

 

Provides on-demand PvP, and makes getting bloodstones marginally harder in all circumstances.

[Sinij 704]

If I wanted to contest a bloodstone, I would do it with my own character and my own guild.

 

You might be in a different campaign, the guild carrying bloodstone might be an ally... there are plenty of reasons why you couldn't or wouldn't contest it.

 

What significant threat would a reasonably co-ordinated guild  face from a horde of vaguely-allied randoms? My five guys, all on teamspeak and calling targets are going to do just fine against five randoms...

 

This is by design. Keep in mind that thralls will keep spawning. With your group of 5, could you kill 5 PUGs? Sure. 10? Maybe. 20? Probably not.

 

How did it got to 20? You were too busy fighting off other guilds and PUG numbers had a chance to build up. You won against other guild, but now you have another tough fight on your hands.

 

 

Even then, let's assume the pubbies win. What would a bunch of random pubbies do with a bloodstone? Devolve into squabbling?

They de-spawn it and collect their prize on the way out. Thralls are never there to collect boodstone, just to stop you from getting it.

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sinij

[Psyentific 463]

You might be in a different campaign, the guild carrying bloodstone might be an ally... there are plenty of reasons why you couldn't or wouldn't contest it.

If I'm in a different campaign, not only do I not give a sock, but my character is in a different campaign. If I can just drop into another campaign at-will then that cheapens the entire idea of a campaign. If the guild is an ally, then I'm sure-as-socks not going to try and throw them under the bus just for cheap fun; That's not just how you lose allies, that's how you make nobody want to ally with you.

 

Provides on-demand PvP, and makes getting bloodstones marginally harder in all circumstances.

We already have on-demand PvP; Go out to somebody's castle and start killing people as they log-in or respawn. Go to a PvP-enabled EK and start thunderdoming. Head over to a population hub and yell about dueling and e-honor. Check your map, find a siege or a caravan or a mine, grab a friend and crash somebody's party.

 

We don't need an entire subsystem like this (queues, pugs, thralls) to provide on-demand PvP.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Psyentific

[chancellor 1,805]

This looks like an attempt to get a system worked in that lets you grief guilds without letting them know who you are.

Sure, you can't see their names either, but their territory tells you who you're griefing.

Edited May 18, 2015 by chancellor

[theDoctor 621]

A few things:

 

We know virtually nothing about the game yet, so we have no way to know how much bloodstones will be uncontested.  So this seems like a solution in search of a problem.

 

It'd be like if you've only heard of baseball and I start explaining soccer and you say "Well, what do we hit the ball with?  Should we use a bat?"  Well, wait until you hear more details before you get concerned with this kind of thing.

 

That said, I also think you're forgetting the danger already imposed by the NPC creatures on the map.  You don't need to have player-spawned monsters, the monsters that exist will already pose a threat.

[Psyentific 463]

That said, I also think you're forgetting the danger already imposed by the NPC creatures on the map.  You don't need to have player-spawned monsters, the monsters that exist will already pose a threat.

Right; So what if uncontested bloodstones draw all sorts of nasty baddies to them?

[Sinij 704]

If I'm in a different campaign, not only do I not give a sock, but my character is in a different campaign.

Don't get fixated on campaigns. You are playing as an anonymous thrall, no name and no say in where you spawn. You don't know who you are fighting, they are all red-is-dead to you. You don't get to stay, you are just visiting.

 

This isn't nation-building meaningful PvP idea. This is "I have 30 minutes to kill, how I can get some PvP going" idea.

[theDoctor 621]

Right; So what if uncontested bloodstones draw all sorts of nasty baddies to them?

 

How do you know this isn't already in the design?  There's no point in designing the entire Bloodstone ruleset ourselves when we don't know what they have planned.  Unless we're really just incredibly bored.

[Psyentific 463]

Don't get fixated on campaigns.

THE ENTIRE GAME IS CAMPAIGNS

 

 

You are playing as an anonymous thrall, no name and no say in where you spawn. You don't know who you are fighting, they are all red-is-dead to you. You don't get to stay, you are just visiting.

 

This isn't nation-building meaningful PvP idea. This is "I have 30 minutes to kill, how I can get some PvP going" idea.

 

And I'm saying that, not only does the idea of 'no real commitment' run counter to the overall idea of the game, the ability to find fights on-demand will destroy world PvP. Why run over to my rivals castle and camp them in when I can just queue as a thrall?

 

We already have "I have 30 minutes to kill, how can I get some PvP going". I've given numerous examples. We don't need a special system explicitly designed for that, not when the entire game is designed for PvP.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Psyentific

[Psyentific 463]

It seems to me you've got this idea, you queue up, drop in, get the fun, drop out, very much like Warcraft's battlegrounds system. I want you to imagine that idea in your head, everything it encompasses, everything it represents. Now picture it as this pretty butterfly.

You have that picture in your head? This beautiful, technicolour butterfly gently alighted in the palm of your hand? Now, imagine a gentle breeze coming, and the butterfly serenely gliding away.

That is what you must do.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Psyentific

[Sinij 704]

Why run over to my rivals castle and camp them in when I can just queue as a thrall?

 

I am hoping CF castle design is a bit more robust than in SB/DF. What is the point of having castle when anyone could get in at any time? You should have to siege this to get in, certainly if you could causally get in there in 30 minutes, it isn't much of a castle. Also since every asset should be protected, doing so is ultimate meaningless PvP.

 

Not to change the subject with the above, just because it 'always' been this way, doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved. I participated in many, many city camping in SB and DF. Most were ether "look, nobody home Zzzz" or "look, someone teleported home, lets gank them 10 on 1" followed by "zerg has arrived, time to hit the road". It was rarely quick, almost never meaningless, and hardly ever a clean even fight.

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sinij

[chancellor 1,805]

Right; So what if uncontested bloodstones draw all sorts of nasty baddies to them?

Then I would like one in my stronghold when an enemy guild drops a bane stone outside.

[Nempo 297]

This is not a good idea. You have 30 minutes than go and hunt something. This game is not for the 'instant reward' crowd and was never meant to be. You want instant PvP then just charge at the nearest enemy fortification.

 

PvP is meant to have risk, becoming a thrall and inhabiting the body of a random creep poses no risk. You lose nothing for dying, thus eliminating a HUGE part of Crowfall. If you die, your equipment takes a durability hit. In this idea you die and nothing happens to you, this is a problem.