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If you are interested in crafting - are there certain Archetypes that will give a bonus (out of the box) to certain crafting professions?  --OR-- can you do any crafting on any Archetype the same?

 

Every archetype will know some thematic crafting recipes out of the box, so if you want to dabble in e.g. blacksmithing without investing any discipline slots in crafting, you would choose a forgemaster instead of a druid.

 

With that said, a druid who chooses blacksmithing disciplines will be a better smith than an out-of-the-box forgemaster.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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So when ACE gives you the option to join campaigns with durations of up to a year, and when a character joins a campaign he is locked to that campaign for its duration, how is that significantly different from a traditional MMO giving you the option to create characters on multiple servers? Do you really think that no social ties will form in a community which is fighting with and against each other for a solid year?

 

Especially when the game is about the politics of territorial control, and not just running 5-man dungeons for 15 minutes at a time?

 

Of course I think people will form social ties during the campaigns, but my point is that most of those ties will be weakened or dissolved by the end of the campaign.

 

No incentive structure is strong enough to hold a community of 1,000+ players together. Only server design can achieve that, and servers that last < 1 year are incompatible with that goal.

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community of 1,000+ players

 

I would argue that 1000+ players under a single banner is neither a "community" nor a desirable design goal.

 

A community of any size which has any real ties to each other can easily preserve those ties by entering the next campaign together. If your community is so fragile that it can't survive "hey guys, we're doing Dregs Bloodstone #37 next", I'd argue that little of value is being lost.

 

If what you're looking for is a traditional MMO with traditional persistent worlds, Crowfall just isn't going to make you happy.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I would argue that 1000+ players under a single banner is neither a "community" nor a desirable design goal.

 

A community of any size which has any real ties to each other can easily preserve those ties by entering the next campaign together. If your community is so fragile that it can't survive "hey guys, we're doing Dregs Bloodstone #37 next", I'd argue that little of value is being lost.

 

If what you're looking for is a traditional MMO with traditional persistent worlds, Crowfall just isn't going to make you happy.

 

WoW had thriving communities of 1,500+ players on most servers for several years. You didn't just know the happenings of your own guild, you knew what was going on in other guilds as well. You even knew what was going on in guilds from the opposing faction, and you had friend and rival guilds on both sides. Whether you were wandering through the open world, fighting in a dungeon, or hanging out in a major city, you would always encounter familiar faces (or faces that would soon become familiar). Talk to anyone who played since day 1 and they'll tell you that's what's missing from the current game, and the Crowfall developers are walking right into the same traps. You're severely underestimating the importance of persistent server populations and the depth it brings to a game.

 

What you're calling a community is nothing more than a guild or a group of friends. Yes, they can easily move from one campaign to the next together, but people don't need an MMORPG to play with a small group of friends -- they can do that in any multiplayer game. What makes MMORPGs truly great is the massive, persistent communities they can support. Without that, they're nothing. The WoW devs recently learned this the hard way, losing 50% of their 10 million+ subscribers in under 6 months. The Crowfall devs could benefit by learning from their mistakes...

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WoW had thriving communities of 1,500+ players on most servers for several years. You didn't just know the happenings of your own guild, you knew what was going on in other guilds as well. You even knew what was going on in guilds from the opposing faction, and you had friend and rival guilds on both sides. Whether you were wandering through the open world, fighting in a dungeon, or hanging out in a major city, you would always encounter familiar faces (or faces that would soon become familiar). Talk to anyone who played since day 1 and they'll tell you that's what's missing from the current game, and the Crowfall developers are walking right into the same traps. You're severely underestimating the importance of persistent server populations and the depth it brings to a game.

 

What you're calling a community is nothing more than a guild or a group of friends. Yes, they can easily move from one campaign to the next together, but people don't need an MMORPG to play with a small group of friends -- they can do that in any multiplayer game. What makes MMORPGs truly great is the massive, persistent communities they can support. Without that, they're nothing. The WoW devs recently learned this the hard way, losing 50% of their 10 million+ subscribers in under 6 months. The Crowfall devs could benefit by learning from their mistakes...

 

Since we are building something no one else has really tried, I expect (and hope) we will learn some new things.  The challenge with doing the kind of meaningful strategic level PvP in a fully persistent server shard is well described by the "uncle Bob" scenario we outlined in our Kickstarter.  So we are trying something different, and we believe it will work, but only time will tell.  It certainly won't attract every MMO player out there given we aren't trying to satisfy every kind of MMO player with our offering.

 

I'm not sure which specific WoW mistake you are referring to based on their latest expansion.  Can you elaborate?


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I'm not sure which specific WoW mistake you are referring to based on their latest expansion.  Can you elaborate?

 

I believe he is talking about the various changes WoW made for convenience at the expense of community like the dungeon finder and cross server pvp queues.  At least that is what i got from the context of his post.  He is right in a way that community WAS sacrificed for the sake of solving other problems, but in reality those other problems were also driving people away from the game and needed to be addressed.

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Since we are building something no one else has really tried, I expect (and hope) we will learn some new things.  The challenge with doing the kind of meaningful strategic level PvP in a fully persistent server shard is well described by the "uncle Bob" scenario we outlined in our Kickstarter.  So we are trying something different, and we believe it will work, but only time will tell.  It certainly won't attract every MMO player out there given we aren't trying to satisfy every kind of MMO player with our offering.

 

I'm not sure which specific WoW mistake you are referring to based on their latest expansion.  Can you elaborate?

 

The mistake WoW made was diluting/mixing server populations, and they magnified the fallout by doing so in inconsistent ways. They've been increasing the degree to which servers are mixed over the past few expansions, with the most recent one being the worst. It started with battlegrounds, then dungeons, then raids, then world zones, and now you may even see people from other servers in the main hub cities depending on whether or not your server is "connected" to another one. In the end, they all contribute to the same problem: You rarely end up playing with the same people, and the pool of players you encounter on a regular basis is far beyond the tipping point of what could ever become a close-knit community (10,000+ as opposed to a couple thousand, at most). It's like living in a small town where everyone knows your name vs. living in New York City. The addition of Garrisons (personal forts) in the newest expansion also exacerbated the social issues because they allow players to isolate themselves. Despite the many incentives to interact with other players, the path of least resistance (isolation) always seems to be most appealing...

 

I think almost everything about campaigns sounds great. You get to add variety to the game and continually iterate/improve while learning what works and what doesn't. The reset idea is a little like arena seasons in WoW, although obviously far more complex since it involves the environment as well. My fear isn't so much the lack of a persistent world as the lack of a persistent population. If there are hundreds or thousands of players per campaign and they can all move to disparate campaigns every 6-12 months, they'll be gone before you have a chance to get to know them. There won't be enough time for things like rivalries and alliances to form, and that's what makes PvP awesome in an MMORPG -- when you know who you're killing and you want to kill them for a reason, not just because their flag is a different color than yours.

 

 

I believe he is talking about the various changes WoW made for convenience at the expense of community like the dungeon finder and cross server pvp queues.  At least that is what i got from the context of his post.  He is right in a way that community WAS sacrificed for the sake of solving other problems, but in reality those other problems were also driving people away from the game and needed to be addressed.

 

 

Yup, correct on both counts. They were attempting to address valid concerns by adding all those convenience features, but I think they went too far and what they sacrificed was much greater than what they gained in the end. A more nuanced approach could've made grouping easier without fracturing server communities. For example, they could've limited the dungeon-finding tool to your own server. It would've alleviated the trade chat group-finding spam without disrupting the community. Not only did they not do that, they didn't even offer it as an option.

Edited by Konway

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I think you underestimate the speed with which rivalry and enmity develops in a political territorial-control game. You very quickly come to know your neighbors, and you almost as quickly come to either love or despise them.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I think if you are looking for political intrigue and social structure development in Crowfall, you might have found the right game for you.

A lot of what happens in CF is done through social interaction, that being trading, crafting, running missions to transport goods etc.. There is no "go here, get quest, deliver quest" mechanic in the game, so you will have to talk to people to get things done.

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Judging by the kind of gameplay that the devs seem to want to encourage, does anyone think that it will be possible to play a pure mercantile/crafting guild?

 

Yes. It won't be an easy feat, but with dedication I think you can pull it off.


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I'm not sure which specific WoW mistake you are referring to based on their latest expansion.  Can you elaborate?

 

In addition to the thoughts on WoW above, I think the most recent 'isolating' change was to give everyone a private, semi-customizable zone called a Garrison. Not too bad by itself, but much of the expansion's content is somehow tied to this private zone. It added a mini-game thing with followers that you collect and then send out on missions for rewards (so you get stuff for very little effort on playing the game on your part, including gear), tied professions and their materials very closely to the Garrison (to be harvested, and learned from Garrison buildings), and much of the content is related to your Garrison (quests originate from it, leveling quests refer to it). They gave you a hearthstone to get there too. With all the Garrison 'chores', many players would never leave the private area, meaning you wouldn't see other players on your connected servers. Even the 'hub' city didn't seem that bustling; and you never see anyone of the opposite faction. So a lot of people lost community connection because of the private world they were given little incentive to leave.

 

As a WoW player myself, I kind of liked the follower system but I agree having your minions go get you stuff and that's all that you do isn't very exciting for normal gameplay stuff. I -do- like the conveniences of Looking for Raid (queuing up for a dungeon group with others), and even flex raiding with people on other servers that I know across the account, rather than just people on my server. I do miss the feeling of 'I know the people on my server' but I think MMOs today have moved beyond locking people from their friends because you're on different servers. With a smaller population, you'll definitely see more of the same faces as opposed to WoW.

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Guest Unnamed

 There won't be enough time for things like rivalries and alliances to form, and that's what makes PvP awesome in an MMORPG -- when you know who you're killing and you want to kill them for a reason, not just because their flag is a different color than yours.

 

I agree but this game is going to launch with guilds that have had rivalries for many years. Also, nearly all the competitive clans will be playing in the dregs, which offers the most risk vs reward, so you will be seeing those same people each campaign. I'm sure this will also be true for the other campaign bands but I think your most consistent player base will be in the dregs. The world goes away but the rivalries or alliances you made there don't (unless you want them to). Alliances and wars will transfer over from one campaign to the next because people will be serious about both taking property and denying property in the initial land rush. With that being said persistence has been a recurring sticky point for many people in the community. I do still think that anything ACE can do to add more persistence without unfair advantage in any facet of the game, including social interaction, will always be a good thing.

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Of course I think people will form social ties during the campaigns, but my point is that most of those ties will be weakened or dissolved by the end of the campaign.

 

No incentive structure is strong enough to hold a community of 1,000+ players together. Only server design can achieve that, and servers that last < 1 year are incompatible with that goal.

 

Eternal Kingdoms are the permanent part of the game.  When you develop relationships / social ties, you give each other permissions in your EKs or let the other know which EK you tend to hang out in.  This is how you keep up socially.  Because I can tell you right now, CWs definitely won't be the place to do it.  There won't be any NPC cities for you to hang out in and socialize.  The players will create towns and maybe, MAYBE, one will turn into somewhat of a social hub in the CW.  But there's no guaranty that'll happen or that you'll find it... or for that matter, that your guild will even be allowed entrance.

 

This game is about guilds.  You don't have to be in one to play the game, but I imagine most the social structure will be based upon your guild and alliances.  My understanding when it comes to characters is even if you have a character in a CW, you can still hop into an EK with that character.. you just can't hop into a different CW until the one you're in is done, or they allow an exit mechanic, which most likely wouldn't allow you back into that CW any more once you've left.

 

So to me, when you look at the social structure of this game.. it's going to be there, just on a much smaller scale the a game like WoW.  Guilds will be so much more important here and that's a lot of where your social structure will come from.

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I really want Crowfall to fall into the late vanilla early TBC community that WoW had, Rival guilds would taunt each other and actively strive to be best caring little of which faction their rivals were. There was a sense of dignity is being part of a large and powerful guild in those days, and completing goals arbitrary or not.

Ever ended up in a 50v50 fight because you want to stop a rival guild's player from completing an item?  Or swarm to defend a town that the enemy faction is attacking because they were bored one afternoon?(tarren mill/south shore)

 

Hell some of my best memories of WoW were just random PvP fights (2v3) that escalated into raid on raid battles as each side called in help to defeat the other.

If Crowfall can allow communities to interact like this, then we are golden. If not it'll end up like TF2 where you play every now and then for a night of fun before leaving to the next entertaining thing.

But with the PvP focus I'm betting on the strong community side... unless ACE accidently builds their game in an area rich with the Radioactive element know as MOBA, cause there ain't nothin more toxic than that.


Landmimes, the silent killer.

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Hello I just wanted to introduce myself. I have played WOW, RIFT and ARCHEAGE which I am currently still playing. I can not tell you how excited I am for this release.

 

This is crazy as I am 51 years old and the thought of a video game being this excited is kind of odd.

 

A few things that make it so exciting is the non pay to win feature. Their are so many credit card cowboys out there. It will be nice to play a game based on the merits of your sweat and not the amount of cash in the bank.

 

Another aspect is the amount of things you will be able to do in game. It is utterly incredible.

 

This question may have been ask but I could not find it. Will there be an auction house? If so will it have armor, equipment etc...? Will there be a way to make your own goods ie. armor, gems and so forth?

 

I have been telling anyone who will listen about the game. There questions are when is it coming out. I pledged last week and Dec. 2016 cant come quick enough. See you in Beta

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Nice to meet you IAR :)   

 

There will not be any auction house. Everything is going to be done via social interaction. No quests either, if you want something done, you'll have to ask people.

I hope you will join us more in the forum and discuss the game, if not I hope to see you on the battlefield :)

Edited by zinnie

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This question may have been ask but I could not find it. Will there be an auction house? If so will it have armor, equipment etc...? Will there be a way to make your own goods ie. armor, gems and so forth?

Hello IAR, and welcome!

 

Glad to see you found us.  As for being 51 and still getting excited.  Pft.  Age is just a number my friend!

 

To answer your question I pulled this line from the Economy FAQ found here:

 

 

HOW DO I SELL ITEMS TO OTHER PLAYERS? IS THERE AN AUCTION HOUSE?

Currently, we don’t plan on offering an auction house. Instead, we are going to have “shopkeeper” Thralls that can be slotted into buildings to sell items. These thralls can be set up within certain structures, both in Campaign Worlds (to service a guild or faction) and in Kingdoms (to foster trade for use in the Eternal Kingdoms, or Campaigns with less strict import restrictions.
 
We also expect that some players will open up their personal Kingdoms as “marketplaces” for other players to come and sell their goods, and take a cut out of every transaction that occurs.

 

Hope that helps!


[@--(o.O)@]

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I have a couple questions:

 

I understand a purpose for EK is to sell your wares and store stuff and have a place for your guild mates or community to hang out in between campaigns.  But what other purpose does it serve?  Will there be anything else to do in EK?  Is there another purpose the strongholds/castles provide in EK besides storage and vendor selling?


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