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TragicNumberOne

Rivers and Boats

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i am also less interested in the travel implications of rivers/lacks, than their tactical uses...I would find it incredibly amusing to set a a 'dam trap'...enemy shows up to rip down your city..bust the dam and drown them all. #profit.

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After hearing that raising your shield makes your knight fall faster, you never know. This game runs on Blair Physics.

Objects don't necessarily fall faster because they have more mass.  Unless I missed something, I just read mention of blocking increasing mass, which would increase your inertia and momentum, but not the speed at which you fall, only air resistance (object shape), and gravity effect that.


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Need something to transport those blocking shields though. They are 1000 mass units each!

 

lol, Knight must be super swole.


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Glad you gave up on the boats = flying ships in air or space comparison.

But yes, you are drawing arbitrary lines.. and we understand that you don't like boats. Many Crowfall features are less needed than boats.

 

 

Oh yeah, I am sure boats (=/= ships) would completely make all of that impossible.

Like I am sure tournaments and pet fights were so much better as stretch goals. Devs opinion is indisputable!

 

You don't need to use bold type to enhance words by the way.

 

Gave up on what?  I still think they are all equally unnecessary features to fulfilling the core engagements of Crowfall.  They'd all be "cool" but that doesn't mean they are necessary.  I'm not really sure what you think Crowfall is doing that should somehow take a backseat to boats.

 

And yes, adding boats would absolutely prevent a lot of that stuff.  Do you realize that boat/ship/water mechanics are pretty complex?  How do we drive the boats?  Do they have proper water physics?  How do we handle boat-load and capacity, and not overfilling/sinking?  Where do boats get stored?  Do we now have to have a port mechanic too?

 

It's not that I don't like boats.  Naval combat is awesome.  But I'm not asking for it in Crowfall.  Just like I'm not asking for FPS combat, or the ability to control an entire army, because this isn't the game for that.  Naval anything is a huge feature which has major impacts on the entire game, and will literally guide a major chunk of the design, because it'll affect things like map design, water availability, physics/voxels, the seasons.  It just doesn't fit, and it's a hell of a lot more difficult to implement than tournaments.

 

Also, I like bold.

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Objects don't necessarily fall faster because they have more mass.  Unless I missed something, I just read mention of blocking increasing mass, which would increase your inertia and momentum, but not the speed at which you fall, only air resistance (object shape), and gravity effect that.

 

Voila:

 

I saw a knight jump today, use his block midair and because his mass was increased by his block he fell faster. It was very subtle and took a second for me to realize it, but I was like holy crap that is cool. This is going to lead to even more aspects we haven't realized yet.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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There will be rivers and other bodies of water, and they will be tactical whether there are boats or not, though I would like to see boats at some point.  Even boats that weren't player controlled, if you had to build two piers and a ferry would just travel in a straight line between them at a fixed rate, this could be more easily implemented and still very strategic, if moving goods and troops via ferry was significantly faster than traveling overland around a large lake, or upstream/downstream to a river ford or bridge. 


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Gave up on what?  I still think they are all equally unnecessary features to fulfilling the core engagements of Crowfall.  They'd all be "cool" but that doesn't mean they are necessary.  I'm not really sure what you think Crowfall is doing that should somehow take a backseat to boats.

 

And yes, adding boats would absolutely prevent a lot of that stuff.  Do you realize that boat/ship/water mechanics are pretty complex?  How do we drive the boats?  Do they have proper water physics?  How do we handle boat-load and capacity, and not overfilling/sinking?  Where do boats get stored?  Do we now have to have a port mechanic too?

So we're only allowed to talk about things that are strictly necessary to Crowfall?

 

And "how do we handle boat-load and capacity"?! Really? I dunno. How do we handle character load and capacity? Heck, there are going to be land vehicles... how do we handle wagon load and capacity? *panic*

 

The OP is just pointing out the cool uses of boats, specifically without advanced water physics. Are we not going to have any water in the game? If we are, then the water has to get treated in SOME manner. It's not that far-fetched to simply have water vehicles that transport people and goods, but only on water "roads."

 

Everquest had boats, and it didn't have advanced water physics.

 

Sheesh. Try calming down and letting people talk about the potential for boats. It's not like this thread is breaking into ACE HQ and holding the devs hostage until they drop what they're doing and inject boats into the game with a digital syringe. Breeeaaaaathe...


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Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

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So we're only allowed to talk about things that are strictly necessary to Crowfall?

 

And "how do we handle boat-load and capacity"?! Really? I dunno. How do we handle character load and capacity? Heck, there are going to be land vehicles... how do we handle wagon load and capacity? *panic*

 

The OP is just pointing out the cool uses of boats, specifically without advanced water physics. Are we not going to have any water in the game? If we are, then the water has to get treated in SOME manner. It's not that far-fetched to simply have water vehicles that transport people and goods, but only on water "roads."

 

Everquest had boats, and it didn't have advanced water physics.

 

Sheesh. Try calming down and letting people talk about the potential for boats. It's not like this thread is breaking into ACE HQ and holding the devs hostage until they drop what they're doing and inject boats into the game with a digital syringe. Breeeaaaaathe...

 

Wagons don't generally sink to the bottom of the earth when over capacity.  Water based physics is significantly different than land-based.

 

Also, there has been not a lot of information on how any kinds of vehicles work, so I'd say wait until we find out whats going on there before you also ask for water vehicles.

 

I am completely calm, so I'm sorry it bothers you that I think adding boats to Crowfall would be a silly idea.  I was told that proximity voice chat was a silly idea.  I was also told that non-unique names were a silly idea (weren't you one of those people?)  So I'm here saying that putting boats in CF is a silly idea.

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Naval combat is notoriously hard to balance, for lots of reasons.

 

AoE becomes hyper effective, tuning the swim speed is also pretty hard. How are you going to deal with one ship just sailing in the other direction? Make some ships faster? How will you balance that without cannons etc.

 

It opens up a fairly large can of worms. Sounds like a subject for a future expansion.

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So I'm here saying that putting boats in CF is a silly idea.

 

That's your opinion.

 

facepalm6.gif, and that's mine. Anyway:

 

Do you realize that boat/ship/water mechanics are pretty complex?  How do we drive the boats?  Do they have proper water physics?  How do we handle boat-load and capacity, and not overfilling/sinking?  Where do boats get stored?  Do we now have to have a port mechanic too?

 

Darkfall had very basic ships mechanisms, and they were still fun as hell.

 

How do we drive caravans or is any siege equipment on land? I would say like any other game does, a player is on the wheel and the camera changes.

Proper water physics? Sinking? Like I've said, at the beginning they don't need to implement quantum mechanics to make boats fun.

 

Boat-load and capacity? Let boats/ships have places to store items (like in Archeage) which should be limited as if they were smaller banks, and then let it hold as many players as it can.. until a simple sinking mechanism is added to the engine.

 

Naval combat (and eventual sinking stuff) can be introduced later either via expansion or stretch goal for donations.

Anything else is very easy, and I hope Thomas comment was a serious hint to simple boats.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

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That's your opinion.

 

Of course it's my opinion.  All anyone is doing on these forums for a game that isn't even out yet is arguing about whose opinion is best.

 

 

Darkfall had very basic ships mechanisms, and they were still fun as hell.

 

How do we drive caravans or is any siege equipment on land? I would say like any other game does, a player is on the wheel and the camera changes.

Proper water physics? Sinking? Like I've said, at the beginning they don't need to implement quantum mechanics to make boats fun.

 

Boat-load and capacity? Let boats/ships have places to store items (like in Archeage) which should be limited as if they were smaller banks, and then let it hold as many players as it can.. until a simple sinking mechanism is added to the engine.

 

This is my whole point, you're saying the boats can work just like they do in other games.  We don't even have enough context about this game to provide an explanation for how it would work with this game.  So how is that a feasible suggestion to make?

 

Maybe that's confusing, and sounds more "black and white" than it is, but I really believe that if we don't even know anything about what land vehicles, equipment, or combat there are, it's a bit absurd to start suggesting water vehicles.

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Great, now I don't want to play the knight. How can we cannonball people from the sky if we can't get way up high?

 

Mount your friends


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." - Ned

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boats-n-hoes-o.gif


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

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I'm a huge fan of adding as many dimentions to the CW as possible which of course would include a robust navel combat system.

 

Having everything from river boats to gallies I'm all for. However it's ones of the huge updates that will only come after the launch.

 

In the mean time the idea of treating river boats like other types of mounts sounds cool and feasible. Only isuue is Todd himself. He says he doesn't like water/swimming in MMOs. So if you ever "sink" the either have to die or Todd can stop being so stubborn and add freaking swimming in CF! ;)

 

We dont need under water areas just add some swimming animation and let us traverse rivers and lakes.

It might be possible to do a system like that in the future as the company expands with subscriptions. I assume now they are focused on the voxel technology, and other items. But naval combat being added eventually might be cool. Maybe in an expansion? 

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Wagons don't generally sink to the bottom of the earth when over capacity.  Water based physics is significantly different than land-based.

No, they break. Will the game simulate that, if you put one-too-many crates of ore on the wagon? Or will it probably just limit the "inventory space" of a wagon? Your character will sink in water if they're carrying 150lbs worth of stuff on them, right? So, again, is there going to be no water anywhere in any of the worlds, or are we actually going to deal with the existence of water, in quite possibly a "this won't be perfectly realistic physics" way? I'm not sure why you're assuming water physics MUST be detailed, while non-water physics isn't a problem at all.

 

Also, there has been not a lot of information on how any kinds of vehicles work, so I'd say wait until we find out whats going on there before you also ask for water vehicles.

Or we could ask for water vehicles and even... *gasp*... discuss their potential, then still find out what's going on with vehicles and such from ACE, whenever they get around to that, and no harm will be done. If it's something they would like to do, they'll do it. If not, they won't. It's not like discussing possibilities is hindering their ability to design the game, or really negatively affecting anything whatsoever.

 

I am completely calm, so I'm sorry it bothers you that I think adding boats to Crowfall would be a silly idea.  I was told that proximity voice chat was a silly idea.  I was also told that non-unique names were a silly idea (weren't you one of those people?)  So I'm here saying that putting boats in CF is a silly idea.

It's a figure of speech, suggesting that you seem to be "agitated" with the simple idea of boat vehicles, taking it upon yourself to point out all the definite problems with them as though we must decide right here and now whether to implement them or not, OR as though our discussion of the topic is somehow hurting the game's development. If that was not the case, then I was clearly mistaken.

 

For what it's worth, non-unique names wasn't a silly idea. It was merely an inherently problematic one, due the nature of how names function in an MMO. The nature of how vehicles function in an MMO isn't ultra-hi-fidelity physics simulation, so the notion of merely having water-based vehicles isn't a big deal. No one's asking for submarines or jet-skis. So, while "how do we handle the water if we have boats?" is a legit question/concern, "OH NOES, WE CAN'T HAVE BOATS, BECAUSE WATER!" isn't a legit conclusion.


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So, if boats are a technology beyond our primitive, world-hopping civilization in CF, can we craft bridges or will rivers prompt the saying,

"You can't get there from here"?


Honestly, you are the type of person that is much to competitive, has zero compassion for other people and think you are better than everyone else. You likely love to troll people on a day to day bases to get others angry and laugh about it. You make playing any online game unfun for everyone else.  -Kuroaka

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Ace keeps preaching "risk vs reward" and could see how adding river boats fit into this. For example let's say that boats are the fastest way to travel and transport goods/players. Also they can carry more cargo than a caravan on land could.

 

Need to reinforce a part of your territory quickly? Load up some troops and they'll be there faster than players on mounts.

 

Have a resource rich mine and want to strip mine it quickly? Get it to a river boat!

 

This would be the reward part. The risk would be:

 

1) Rivers are "fixed driving lanes" and cannot be altered thus giving enemies an advantage of knowing a transport route.

 

2) You can't defend yourself or the boat while driving/riding in it which means a massive loss in goods and having to respawn/regear after it was destroyed.

 

Interesting dynamics and strategic choices come from this. High risk high reward. How important will they be for your faction/guild? Will you spend the needed manpower to defend the coastlines?

 

The inability to defend yourself on a boat is not necessary to creating appropriate risk. Just the fact that you are using river travel can be dangerous. everyone knows where a river leads to, making it much easier to find caravans to ambush and kill.

 

Sea-Monster-Images-2.jpg

 

one or two of these things would be neat ;)

Adding caravans on rivers and more PvP depth is a good thing, I would not be opposed to that at all. However, I would like to see this done right, boats are important and deserve focus. SInce I don't see this as vital but just "an extra" then I would have no problem if the game launched without this feature. This is my opinion on the matter only, of course.

 

When I say boats, think... small shipping boats, not large ships. Like I said in the OP,(I hope I'm using that word right) making complicated ship mechanics is not very viable right now, so I am suggesting a smaller alternative that will give more bang for buck. Many of the horse/caravan mechanics could be re-used for the boats, and various animation and simple physics tricks could help make the boat seem like... not a horse.

 

Can we stop asking for water/boat/sea mechanics already?  Does no one realize these features are not simple, willy-nilly, throw-into-the-game mechanics?

 

They might do water stuff someday.  Maybe in an update, maybe in an expansion.  But please stop begging them to put it in the game when it's not necessary.  Are water mechanics cool?  Sure.  Maybe (if implemented right).

 

Are they necessary?  No.  Many wars were fought on land alone, many competitions involve no water.  It's just not necessary.

 

Why not ask for vehicles and air combat?  Or SPACE COMBAT! :o

 

Because it's just not a reasonable request.  Let them make the base game good first.

 

/rant

 

The goal of this post was to find a cheap alternative to ships that would still fit in nicely into the current game. I (nor does anyone else, devs not-withstanding) know the current architecture of the game, but if small river-boats were added using many re-used asset + simple animations/physics, they could add a lot to the game for minimal cost.(assuming that the architecture can support those kinds of re-sued assets)

 

i am also less interested in the travel implications of rivers/lacks, than their tactical uses...I would find it incredibly amusing to set a a 'dam trap'...enemy shows up to rip down your city..bust the dam and drown them all. #profit.

 

The issue with this is money cost and server capabilities. Think of the cost to make large-scale water physics... + Water movement on that scale would... not end well on the performance side of things. Although on the off-chance this is viable, devs, you know what to do!

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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