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bahamutkaiser

What kind of games and mechanics would you like Crowfall to sample from?

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How are they going to get through that gate without any siege weapons?
Why can't the defenders just pour fire down on them from the walls? You can clearly see that the towers on either side cover the gate.


Hardcore gamer & tabletop enthusiast. Enjoys roleplaying, pretending to be stupid, and one-sided fun.

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Okay; What is it about these systems that's so appealing? Pretty pictures don't tell me a whole lot other than "They're big and nasty" or "I need a group to fight them"

 

I really enjoy the combat system in Monster Hunter.

 

I suppose a part of the appeal to it is that it has a learning curve and it feels like an innate skill to master rather than some artificial hotbar spam. imo hotbars should only be reserved for utility and specials when it comes to combat.

 

Plus the similiarity from Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and TERA is that combat has animation locks. Personally I find TERA combat just a little too sluggish but other than that, all of them feel weighty and have impact with combo stringing. Because of that, you have to make strategic choices like attacking, defending, parrying, evasion or retreating in each of these games...so the flow of combat is much more natural rather than having a custard homing missile tab target system.


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I really like the idea of Thrall resource collection and point control. MOBA style games benefit from having minions and other non player obstacles. It gives players something to aim for even if their too weak to directly contend with a foe.

 

It really depends on just how much automated activity they want in Crowfall, if there are multiple working methods, it could even be enabled based on Campaign.


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Lineage II combat and siege system :lol:

 

siege03b.jpg

 

Do you have some good example videos of Lineage sieges?


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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GTA V

 

Witcher 3

 

Heroes of the Storm

 

Blood Bowl 2

 

Civ V

 

Can you be a bit more specific?


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What do you mean?

Like what mechanisms and mechanics are actually good from these games, some of these are very different from Crowfall, so some explanation would help. Pictures, videos, descriptions, something?


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Like what mechanisms and mechanics are actually good from these games, some of these are very different from Crowfall, so some explanation would help. Pictures, videos, descriptions, something?

Pretty sure everyone knows most of those games.

 

Aren't we just naming popular games that we like?


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Okay... Well anyway, I was thinking about the attack priority in Action Games, and how they differ greatly in Single Player games significantly in comparison to Multiplayer PvP games.

 

Single Player games seem to involve a great deal of interruption, often the player can interrupt and prevent opponents from dealing damage when their landing blows, and is interrupted if they take a blow, while bosses have a higher priority and interrupt the player while ignoring interruption from most attacks except heavy strikes specific to interrupting attacks. Some of the older Action games would treat foes as damage on contact and wouldn't be interrupted at all, forcing the player to dance around the foe while getting strikes in, but it doesn't fit well with combo based action where players attacks are designed to be delivered in succession. Even Fighting games tend to have one player suppressing the other, or if both strike simultaneously, they both get interrupted. This makes for slightly more practical combat appearance, but it's almost never seen in battles with more players because a few players could suppress many other players and create a cycle of continuous suppression with other players.

 

In Multi Player games, especially online with greater numbers, it seems like everyone just walks up and unloads on each other, and the only time your interrupted is when some specific disable is deployed with the deliberate value of suppressing a foe momentarily. All this is a bit long winded, and I'm sure everyone's familiar with all of these features, so I'll try to get to the point.

 

dmwo8enetq8y6zy8pg0e.jpg

 

I was thinking back to one of my favorite games, Dissidia, and how attack priority works in that game, it's still a fighting game, and all attacks interrupt your opponent except in rare cases where one or two characters have unique endurance specials. But there are several attack priorities, even movement plays into priority. The game has light and heavy attacks, and light and heavy projectiles, which fall beneath their melee counterparts in priority. Light attacks can be blocked, dodged, and overpowered by heavy attacks, but activate faster than heavy attacks. Without going into the damage and various health aspects of the game, heavy attacks are unblockable, except by a few character unique blocks, and have greater impact, but come off slower. Beyond that, projectiles have an even lower priority in that they are slightly slower to activate than melee attacks, and can be deflected back at the user with a block, attack of the same power type, or even a dash.

 

B001TD6SN0.03.lg.jpg

 

Blocks cause light melee attacks to stagger but are broken by melee or projectile heavy attacks, and some unique light attacks can stagger the defender or even break the block, but tend to come off as slow as heavy attacks, only dealing a different kind of damage.  And the amount of other unique effects go on and on, from remote attacks that cant be deflected, to light attacks with branching heavy finishers, to heavy attacks that fill the slow delivery with an included pre block.  I was thinking about how online battle games, much like this, could include a lot more variations of simultaneous attacks, with different priorities, but instead with far more subtle interactions which would be practical to several players fighting simultaneously, it wouldn't do for players to be staggering each other constantly with equivalent attacks in large battles.

 

Dissidia-FF-Team-Ninja_04-10-15_004.jpg

 

The upcoming Dissidia seems to have this in mind, as it's now a 3 on 3 player game, It's not stateside, and I don't think the Arcade release in Japan is even out, but from the gameplay videos, it seems like many weaker attacks, particularly projectiles, simply deal damage without impeding actions.

 

Putting it in the context of Crowfall though, it would be interesting if attacks of many kinds had a variety of effects, including dealing damage while producing a certain level of blocking or defense, attacks colliding with each other, but instead of staggering both users the way they do in fighting games, they could simply cancel out each others damage, causing attacks to clash. There could also be heavy attacks which break through defensive attacks and light defense, deliberate blocks which could stagger an attacker, attacks which are light and defensive but won't be staggered by a deliberate block, so on, and so forth.

 

I think this kind of soft attack canceling and rich attack variation would allow for several attack types to exist on each Archetype, allowing players to press for offense, defense, or utility in their attacks, An Assassin might have attacks with built in motion to circle opponents and others which create distance to help disengage without turning tail. while a Templar may have high interruption combos which cancel the damage of their targets attacks, but deal little damage themselves, and a Champion may have broad attack combos which hit up to 3 foes in front of him, and other combos which crush most defensive attempts but are easier to evade.  The kind of effects available in each attack or combo and the selection of combos available to each Archetype can greatly distinguish the role and tactics available to players, and make attacks much more interactive and deliberate rather than just doing filler attacks between skill, or even combo chain rotations.

 

I was hoping there was a better example of these mechanics out there in a similar game, something that is closer to Crowfall or Multiplayer competition, but there are many games I've missed, so if anyone has some more accurate examples, please let me know. I'll end this overly long entry with some videos to help demonstrate attack priorities in Dissidia.

 

https://youtu.be/w7H7QZXdC2w

https://youtu.be/2zUFD6H9sdE

https://youtu.be/emhZ2evodkI

https://youtu.be/XebSK-MiGL0

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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People already sumbited some good ideas (resource thrall and deep crafting) I'll try to think of something different.

 

1) Ultima Online for its full loot drop and gear damage system.

 

While not the most complex it was fairly simple. Your gear, pack, magic items, weapons, etc all stayed on your corpse at death. Players had to search your corpse and drag each item off of it so it took time. No auto looting crap. But you still lost EVERYTHING which equally sucked for the corpse but was great for the looter.

 

Additionally all gear/items slowly wore down and would break. Both this and the looting meant more gold was given to crafter that kept people supplied.

 

It was a great sink that forced a lot of player interaction.

 

2) Monster Ranchers pet discovery system.

 

It's so crazy random because you get monsters from CDs and DVDs. I don't want that in CF. Some other crazy in game random thing would do fine. Just really enjoyed the raising, training, and cross breedin if creatures to have stronger pets.

 

Think it would be cool to get new mounts, caravans, or even have a tamer class out of this.

 

3) Wings of Icarus air ship combat.

 

I want air ships over a battlefield :)

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Aiming telegraphs like League of Legends.

 

http://www.gamingcfg.com/img/347/lol-ashe-volley.jpg

 

These would help you line up your skill shot. In most cases, only you (the person aiming) sees them.

Once you fire them, the visual effects act like a telegraph for the enemy. Some projectiles fly (or erupt, or come down) slower than others, and this gives some latency-dependant wiggle room for counter play. So the enemy never sees your aiming reticule (as in that screenshot) but they see the particle effect that indicates where the pain will land.

 

In some cases, the enemy effects are different from friendly effects with faint zone outlines (Morgana vs Morgana, red circle vs green circle). The outlines are non-obtrusive, but they help identify a hostile spell from a friendly one.

 

Full disclosure: I like Wildstar's telegraph system too, but a lot of people hate it, and this seems like a nice compromise. It's visually apparent, not ugly or spammy and is representative of the kill zone of each ability used.


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Aiming telegraphs like League of Legends.

 

http://www.gamingcfg.com/img/347/lol-ashe-volley.jpg

 

These would help you line up your skill shot. In most cases, only you (the person aiming) sees them.

Once you fire them, the visual effects act like a telegraph for the enemy. Some projectiles fly (or erupt, or come down) slower than others, and this gives some latency-dependant wiggle room for counter play. So the enemy never sees your aiming reticule (as in that screenshot) but they see the particle effect that indicates where the pain will land.

 

In some cases, the enemy effects are different from friendly effects with faint zone outlines (Morgana vs Morgana, red circle vs green circle). The outlines are non-obtrusive, but they help identify a hostile spell from a friendly one.

 

Full disclosure: I like Wildstar's telegraph system too, but a lot of people hate it, and this seems like a nice compromise. It's visually apparent, not ugly or spammy and is representative of the kill zone of each ability used.

I think we are already expecting much of this in Crowfall, and even the full loot and gear destruction mentioned above. I think the description of telegraphs would go smoother if people distinguished indicators from telegraphs. Telegraphs are indications to your enemy, indicators to yourself are not telegraphs, they are indicators or projections.

 

Beyond that, projections don not work well in a 3D operating space and over long distances. Most good action games have readable actions which do not need indicators to show the player attack dimensions, while longer range attacks only benefit from indicators to a certain extent, and often limit the games scope to a 2 dimensional plane. Just an observation.

 

Phones gonna die though, brb.


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I am not really looking for any game remade for the Nth time, like so many MMO's seem to be these days. If I had a choice of what Crowfall would be, without any consideration of technology/time, it would basically be a third person action game in an MMO universe, with highly skilled combat and projectile physics. Arrows and spells are actual projectiles that have drop and are aimed. Melee fighting is actually skill based (like Chivalry). Active blocking, dodging, aiming, swinging, etc.

 

Then I would like a deep and engaging crafting system, that doesn't just feel like a chore of repetitive crafts over and over again until you get bored and quit. Tack on all of the other ideas they have for the game/lore/campaigns/EK's/etc. and I think it could be pretty awesome. So far, I am not a huge fan of all the telegraph/ground painting crap on all the abilities. Wildstar was boring enough with all of that. You should be paying attention to the game you are playing, not just watching the freaking ground and dodging out of the way when you see red, it is incredibly detracting from the overall game play (what a waste of graphics when all you need is terrain and red shapes on the ground). I hope they can push the game into something unique and fun, so we shall see.


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The one thing I will say about WoW is that the responsiveness and fluidity of the movements and actions were amazing.

 

I'd like to see Crowfall emulate this.


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I am not really looking for any game remade for the Nth time, like so many MMO's seem to be these days. If I had a choice of what Crowfall would be, without any consideration of technology/time, it would basically be a third person action game in an MMO universe, with highly skilled combat and projectile physics. Arrows and spells are actual projectiles that have drop and are aimed. Melee fighting is actually skill based (like Chivalry). Active blocking, dodging, aiming, swinging, etc.

 

Then I would like a deep and engaging crafting system, that doesn't just feel like a chore of repetitive crafts over and over again until you get bored and quit. Tack on all of the other ideas they have for the game/lore/campaigns/EK's/etc. and I think it could be pretty awesome. So far, I am not a huge fan of all the telegraph/ground painting crap on all the abilities. Wildstar was boring enough with all of that. You should be paying attention to the game you are playing, not just watching the freaking ground and dodging out of the way when you see red, it is incredibly detracting from the overall game play (what a waste of graphics when all you need is terrain and red shapes on the ground). I hope they can push the game into something unique and fun, so we shall see.

I'm down for rich realism, but at some point the fact that your operating controls at a desk have to come into play. Projectiles in particularly require a great deal of adjustment for computers rather than actually drawing a bow or actually aiming a spell, even shooters simplify aiming by giving you a reticle and allowing you to aim by moving a mouse, when in reality, there is a sacrifice in posture and movement to actually aim a shot.

 

Having some systems to allow the desired amount of fascinating combat to take place with an acceptable and comfortable amount of input is expected. Because sometimes we want to fly through the sky or control a Centaur, and it's not like your effectively demonstrating a fencing posture and producing the right strike and footwork to hit an opponent effectively while avoiding their blow simultaneously. And while I don't like it, maybe you do want the ground to shake when a dwarf hits the ground with a hammer.

 

But I'm very curious about what they'll do to allow projectile fire to be threatening to allies, arch over allies as necessary, reach distances meaningful to strategic combat, and... Still be fun :-/


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