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Things I [we] don't want in Crowfall

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This is... I don't have the right words. Useless isn't quite right. Unnecessary isn't quite right either... It's not necessarily trash, but it isn't valuable either...

 

Stop being nice.  You know it's completely custard useless.  

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I think saying that this thread is useless is useless

I think saying that "saying that thread is useless is useless", is also useless.

 

Wait... I'm confused *scratches head*


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Guild Leader/ High Elder

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I do not mind there being if...

 

1. General

 

*Que as long as it is under 15 minutes.

 

2. Combat

 

*Downed state if there are also immunities to it happening too often.

*Hard CC if there is akin to Shadowbane stun/powerblock immunities.

*Tab targeting. I have enjoyed tab targeting in games more then games that did not have it.

*Revive if there is a deathshroud type negative combat related determinant.

 

4. PvE grinding/farming if it is part of the economy and is 'reasonable' in time frame (i.e., enough time to make it a meaningful difference between a person who did it and who did not so perhaps a 5-10 percent edge in skills).

 

7.

 

*As long as it is based on the gameworld economy I do not mind. I add also I am all for both localized inflation/deflation and global inflation/deflation if it is tied to player actions (everyone craft just swords then sword prices plummet etc). 

 

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I don't want Double Jumps, short projectile reach, and either Knight or Templar, to many human knight archetypes/tanks, something else would be better.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I think saying that this thread is useless is useless

 

I clearly backed up that claim in the previous post so try again.  I do hope the irony of you calling someone else's post useless is not lost on you though.  

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Yeah, there are an infinite number of things we could list as don't want, and mentioning them may actually increase the chance that they happen, since that is sadly how our monkey minds work.

But since its already been mentioned, I have to agree with the downed state and revive point.  A revive mechanic can make a zerg immortal, so it takes away a lot of tactical and strategic complexity that makes combat interesting.

Edited by kroked

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Don't want:

Low TTK

Obfuscation of game mechanics

Hard CC w/no break out mechanics (hard cc is fine long as there is a counter mechanic)

A weak ass UI

Small world map

Easy fast travel access

 

Things I'm okay with :

Personal telegraphs (I'm okay with telegraphs when it shows you and only you how far a projectile will travel/land. I don't want to guess at shot that should be crystal clear (see 3 on my don't list).

Edited by helix

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Teleportation.

 

Every game eventually succumbs.  It's convenient, so it must be good, right?

 

Just don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.  If you feel the need for teleportation, it's because of mindless (read: risk-free) travel.  Avoid the mindless travel and you avoid the problem.


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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If this were the point then what would be the point of the forums at all?  We should all just sit back and wait two years.  No.

 

The developers have said MULTIPLE times they welcome our discussions, value our opinions, and take a lot of what we say into consideration.  While we both agree they are a very experienced group, it does not hurt to hear from the folks you are developing the game for.

 

Well we could wait for a few developments to discuss instead of crowding the forums and burying useful information with rethreads. Just because things get quiet doesn't mean the game is dead.

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Combat decided by RNG

Crafting decided by RNG

Loot drops decided by RNG (if mobs drop anything of value it should be guaranteed and balanced with that in mind)

 

You do realize that removing all RNG is not a good thing.  I suppose if you want to remove all luck, crit, etc... and just revert everything back to hard numbers... something that not even tabletop does as they have dice for RNG.... then that's your preference.  I recommend really thinking through the alternative before considering ideas like this.

 

I would vote a serious No on that though.

Edited by Nyt

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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I clearly backed up that claim in the previous post so try again.  I do hope the irony of you calling someone else's post useless is not lost on you though.

 

Your lack of understanding about how preemptive "negative feedback" can be useful for development, does not actually make such feedback useless.

So if reading this "useless" thread somehow makes you feel uncomfortable, you could consider are gym and karaoke threads in offtopic, where you could always post something constructive.

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This pretty much goes without saying but "duping" and "exploiting" have seriously impacted the release of other games of this type.  There should be no release until these things are patched out of beta as much as foreseeably possible.


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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You do realize that removing all RNG is not a good thing.  I suppose if you want to remove all luck, crit, etc... and just revert everything back to hard numbers... something that not even tabletop does as they have dice for RNG.... then that's your preference.  I recommend really thinking through the alternative before considering ideas like this.

 

I would vote a serious No on that though.

 

No I don't realize that because it isn't true.

 

RNG in tabletop games is there because there's no way to actually have the players interact with each other or the environment directly. Lockpicking in tabletop is a dice roll vs. Oblivion or Skyrim where it's a direct player action. It's an outdated system that people need to let go. In video games we don't need to roll dice when we have active combat with skill shots.


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No I don't realize that because it isn't true.

 

RNG in tabletop games is there because there's no way to actually have the players interact with each other or the environment directly. Lockpicking in tabletop is a dice roll vs. Oblivion or Skyrim where it's a direct player action. It's an outdated system that people need to let go. In video games we don't need to roll dice when we have active combat with skill shots.

It is true.  Even that "direct action" had RNG involved.  Just because the player isn't aware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  RNG is used to add fuzzy logic to functions in order to make them more realistic... because life is full of RNG-like behaviors and events.  Removing RNG completely from games is not a valid solution unless it was replaced with a better "fuzzy logic" mechanic.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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It is true.  Even that "direct action" had RNG involved.  Just because the player isn't aware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  RNG is used to add fuzzy logic to functions in order to make them more realistic... because life is full of RNG-like behaviors and events.  Removing RNG completely from games is not a valid solution unless it was replaced with a better "fuzzy logic" mechanic.

 

No it isn't true. All that RNG adds to a game is uncertainty. This isn't UO where melee combat was two dudes auto attacking each other and there had to be something to change who won in an otherwise pure stat/character skill system. In an active system the winner is determined by who plays more skillfully. You don't pray for crits in Street Fighter, hope that your opponent rolls a miss in Smash Brothers, or get lucky on your damage rolls in Dark Souls.

 

A skill based game that relies on RNG is objectively worse and less skillful.


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No it isn't true. All that RNG adds to a game is uncertainty. This isn't UO where melee combat was two dudes auto attacking each other and there had to be something to change who won in an otherwise pure stat/character skill system. In an active system the winner is determined by who plays more skillfully. You don't pray for crits in Street Fighter, hope that your opponent rolls a miss in Smash Brothers, or get lucky on your damage rolls in Dark Souls.

 

A skill based game that relies on RNG is objectively worse and less skillful.

 

What exactly is a skill based game to you?  WoW, DOTA, SC2, CSGO, Quake live, LoL just a name a few of the most popular competitive skill based games out there.  All have some sort of RNG in various forms. 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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What exactly is a skill based game to you?  WoW, DOTA, SC2, CSGO, Quake live, LoL just a name a few of the most popular competitive skill based games out there.  All have some sort of RNG in various forms. 

 

A skill based game is one where the outcome is based as much as possible on the direct input from the player.

 

WoW is a completely RNG/gear based mess.

 

DOTA and LoL include RNG because they don't want to break with tradition even though they would be objectively superior games if they removed luck from the equation. Even then, 90% of the skill in MOBAs isn't in the actual fight but in map awareness and choosing the correct fights. I was watching a DOTA 2 tournament not long ago where Team Secret got dominated most of the game by CDEC and lost most of the fights, but won because they had better map awareness and tactics.

 

The RNG in FPS games is mostly the result of attempting to emulate real world effects like recoil and bullet spread without creating a highly detailed physics engine. It's an attempt to make the game feel more realistic as opposed to being more skillful. It's basically just developer laziness or lack of resources to use a simplified system instead of a better one.


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Too much rng can be bad, but life is rng and you will never truly eliminate rng. 

 

Nor will every successful moment be based on skill.  Luck will always play a factor... obviously it's pretty newb to blame luck for everything but all players get lucky in some way shape or form at times, obviously the best players have tremendous skill as well, and hell even sometimes it is a skill creating a scenario that you can get lucky in. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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