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Combat: Finding the fun - Official discussion thread

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It might be even more helpful for scale if when you show these models in the future to have say a model character in the scene somewhere, even if its just another box that represents the height of an average PC.  

 

absolutely, great point.  (in the mean time, you can use the doorways as a rough estimate, just remember that they are oversized to allow for champions/centaurs/myrmidons)

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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if you have explosives in a voxelized world, you can MAKE useable space. ;p

 

Todd

ACE

 

p.s. I'm not confirming explosives.  

p.p.s. I'm also not NOT confirming explosives.

PLEASE THO!

 

Imagine trebs firing (or misfiring) explosives!?


[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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if you have explosives in a voxelized world, you can MAKE useable space. ;p

 

Todd

ACE

 

p.s. I'm not confirming explosives.  

p.p.s. I'm also not NOT confirming explosives.

 

No doubts that they have invented gunpowder with flintlock pistols, and maybe some magic effects are explosive,

but I guess it's too early. 

I'm merely speculating..  ^_^

Edited by mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Even with this update detailing the implementation process, testers will still complain about how unfinished/broken the game is during Alpha.

 

Nice work, and thanks for the update.

Yeah sadly goofballs are gonna be goofballs, it's always the same story. Sadly ACE explaining their iteration process doesn't matter as most of those folks who are crying doom at every step of the way are pretty much incapable of understanding it either way.


Member of The BlackHand Order

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Guinecean land mines

 

All you see is a little tuft of fur before it's too late!

 

oh god, imagine the fun deep, deep underground where dwarfs and guinecean live to set up traps to secure their underground tunnel network.
And when you hear an explosion nearby; you know we've company and some unwelcome guests.

It could be an escape route from a distant castle for instance, or a gold mine.  :)

Edited by mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Btw, some great questions in this thread.  I'll talk to Jon and we'll cook up another update with more details on how we are building this stronghold, and our assumptions about scale and flow.  

 

If you have other questions, feel free to post them here!

 

Todd

ACE

 

To prevent your questions from getting lost in this thread, a new, dedicated question-catcher thread has been started HERE


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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if you have explosives in a voxelized world, you can MAKE useable space. ;p

 

Todd

ACE

 

p.s. I'm not confirming explosives.  

p.p.s. I'm also not NOT confirming explosives.

 

I like the way you think, Sir!

 

Also, if you give me guns and voxels, I'll find a way to make something explode.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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what i love most, is the open communication of this team. the ability to foresee potential problems, the practice of minimizing them by informing people early, the continuing invitation to discuss and giving us the feeling that they take this into count-- that is really huge. thanks for this. :)

 

 

so, some thoughts from me about this great update and pictures.

 

 

edit: thoughts moved to the jon thread

Edited by Dr. Kraahk

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For me, the simpler a game, the more fun it is. Before the "hardcore" crowd starts jumping down my throat, let me explain with some examples.

 

Your Tetris example is a good place to start: the premise is simple and novel, move falling blocks to make a line and make it disappear. Rules are sumple and concise, yet mastery of these simple rules is what makes the game fulfilling and fun. The use of a simple premise and concise rulesets or mechanics can be found in many old-school games - pacman (eat dots and fruits, avoid ghosts); sonic and mario (get to the end as fast as you can while collecting points and power ups); legend of zelda (use items to beat dungeons and survive). All these mechanics were deceptively simple and concise, summed up in a handful of words, but addicting and fun because of it, with mastery of the game's mechanics acting as a gamers "progression".

 

Combat in today's games is somewhat similar in concept: use techniques to deplete health/result in conditions that defeat your opponent. Many games use health bars and attack buttons to accomplish this. Yet there are innovative ways to do combat as well. Super Smash Bros is a prime example of simple fun combat: use techniques to ring out opponents, more damage means more danger. Simple, challenging, with HUGE payoffs for mastery.

 

Games today try to overcomplicate things, ESPECIALLY in mmo's. WoW is a good example of how overcomplicating things can ruin a game/combat. WoW used to be much simpler than it is today, rewarding players for mastering customizations and combining techniques/spells. As WoW has aged though, they keep adding more and more abilities and mechanics, leading to hotbar bloat, becoming indecipherable except only to a few. At that point, WoW stopped being "fun" and became "work." WoW has other issues, but for now, just sticking with the simple stuff.

 

On the other hand, the Souls Series has fantastic combat that is immersive and again simple. Each weapon has their own attack style and gameplay with mastery of these weapons rewarding players. Other mechanics complimented this, but the core combat gameplay never changed, staying simple to execute, but challenging, difficult, and fun to master. Skyrim followed an even simpler style and is still one of the most played games today. There were ways to modify combat, but the premise and range of abilities stayed very concise and simple, without needing a ton of modification, such as additional effects or flashy additional mechanics. So in terms of keeping combat fun amd accessible, as my 4th teacher told me long ago: KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID

 

I'm gonna have to disagree. Sure, simple games like Pacman and Tetris are regarded as genius, but how many hours do you honestly spend playing Tetris? Not many. MMOs are a different beast, you can't compare them. I agree hotbar bloating is a problem, and WoW had to purge abilities at a certain point because most were overload, but you need a good amount of complexity in order to have a high skill cap. If I want to have 2-4 buttons at my disposal and skill be based on reaction time, I'll play an FPS. I don't know about you but that's not the experience I expect from an MMO. in an MMO, I expect picking the right ability to use in the right situation to be the challenge. When or where do I stop to cast, what do I interrupt, what attack is worth blocking, do I keep attacking a target that has certain buff, who do you CC, etc.

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Guinecean land mines

 

All you see is a little tuft of fur before it's too late!

The wondering Guinecean Thrall proximity mines. Use the little woodland creatures even when their dead.

 

 

oh god, imagine the fun deep, deep underground where dwarfs and guinecean live to set up traps to secure their underground tunnel network.
And when you hear an explosion nearby; you know we've company and some unwelcome guests.

It could be an escape route from a distant castle for instance, or a gold mine.  :)

 

Was thinking the same thing when ACE first said we could tunnel. Battles below the Castles when everything above looks peaceful.


"To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers".

On 6/9/2015 at 3:44 PM, Tyrant said:

 

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Thanks for the insight on how the process works for us non developer types. Looking forward seeing the streams from the Pre- Alpha folks

Edited by Otto

"To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers".

On 6/9/2015 at 3:44 PM, Tyrant said:

 

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That is one fabulous grey box.

 

It's a good idea to continue setting expectations and reducing hype like this before alpha and beta. Meeting or exceeding expectations is much better than disappointing during this early stage of the development, when everything will be at it's worst anyway. The hype train should only come a-chuggin back into town toward the end of development, when the game nears release.

 

Now I'm just a poor "contributor" pleb, so I'll be watching streams of Crowfall for a while before I can ever lay my filthy unwashed hands on the game. The intended swift iteration pace sounds like it'll be beneficial not only for the budget, but also for entertaining stream watchers. We'll have a new version of the game to watch and get angry about all the time (relative to finished games), which means lots of changes to discuss politely and delicately on the forums (better be wearing flame-retardant business casual, devs). That'll help keep backers engaged at the very least, for a while. Of course, this scenario depends upon the good will of our merciful, all-wealthy demilords, the Bloodstone and Diamond patrons. Will our lords deign to show generosity toward the commoner rabble by producing public streams of the pre-alpha for us to watch? Remember, bread and circus keep the riots away!


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Btw, some great questions in this thread.  I'll talk to Jon and we'll cook up another update with more details on how we are building this stronghold, and our assumptions about scale and flow.  

 

If you have other questions, feel free to post them here!

 

Todd

ACE

 

Again, I highly recommend Developer Polls/Questions, to be used as sparingly or as frequently as necessary. If there are any general ideas that are in flux amongst the team, and they happen to be things that you would like feedback on from us, it'd be really nice to know the scope of things that could change. Think of it as... concept testing, instead of gameplay testing, :)

 

I mean, we forumgoers will freely speculate and brainstorm all day long. But, it'd be nicer to know where there's room for change, and where there isn't, so that we can provide more focused feedback.


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Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

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I'm gonna have to disagree. Sure, simple games like Pacman and Tetris are regarded as genius, but how many hours do you honestly spend playing Tetris? Not many. MMOs are a different beast, you can't compare them. I agree hotbar bloating is a problem, and WoW had to purge abilities at a certain point because most were overload, but you need a good amount of complexity in order to have a high skill cap. If I want to have 2-4 buttons at my disposal and skill be based on reaction time, I'll play an FPS. I don't know about you but that's not the experience I expect from an MMO. in an MMO, I expect picking the right ability to use in the right situation to be the challenge. When or where do I stop to cast, what do I interrupt, what attack is worth blocking, do I keep attacking a target that has certain buff, who do you CC, etc.

 

While I agree with most of your points, I have spent (cumulative) days of my life playing tetris and the number continues to climb.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Does anyone know which Tier of backers will be able to test?

Saphire and up are Alpha 1, starts going down a phase from there for each backer level.


 

Er, what's "edging"?

 

 

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While I agree with most of your points, I have spent (cumulative) days of my life playing tetris and the number continues to climb.

Tetris and pacman age much better than modern games, I'm still playing the original Tetris, while it's more of a casual distraction than an involved game, it's enjoyment is eternal.

 

Part of the reason I always push for auxiliary features of big MMOs to be represented with intriguing mini-games :)


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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