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Combat: Finding the fun - Official discussion thread

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Hmmm... Not bad I like it. I really do like the "Try out ideas, then kill them quickly if they don’t work."

I agree with this and I can't wait

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Why was Tetris fun?  It’s hard to put a finger on exactly why this combination of elements was more fun than all of the other ‘falling pieces’ games that came before (or, frankly, since).

 

There actually is a theory about this.  It turns out that Tetris is in a category of problem called NP-complete. NP-complete problems are a set of problems that have certain characteristics that include complicated to solve, but easy to tell if it is solved.  Other popular games that are NP-complete include Minesweeper and Sudoku.

 

It turns out that many RPGs and MMOs also include an NP-Complete aspect, usually involving the most famous NP-complete problem called the Travelling Salesman problem.  The basic idea behind the travelling salesman is that you want to find the most efficient way to visit a bunch of cities on a map without having to do too much backtracking.  A good example of this is Heros of Might and Magic where you steer your heroes from one resource or treasure to another trying to waste as little movement as possible.

 

Examples of games that suffer because they avoid the NP-complete complexity are Bioware RPGs and Neverwinter Online.  These game have linear gameplay, where you have a linear path and there are no efficiency decisions to be made.   In trying to tell a story in a linear fashion, these games severely limit their longevity.

 

So, if you want your game to hold people's interest for a long time, make sure it has an NP-complete aspect to it!

Everything you said has nothing to do with why Tetris and Bioware games both were fun.  What makes a game fun are three basic tenets:

 

  1. Simple and easy to learn
  2. Difficult and challenging to master
  3. Immediate and clear feedback

Both games had these in spades.  If it's hard to learn, people grow overwhelmed and many will lose interest.  If it's easy to master, many will get bored too quickly.  If you aren't reasonably made aware of a what or a how or a why or a when if you fail or succeed at a game objective, you can't measure your skill at the game, and it feels pointless.

Edited by Deioth

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What are the combat design plans for now?

 

fast or slow combat, skill based or just hit the buttons use macro and kill the enemy....

 

The best combat i imagine and would like to see in this game has a moderate speed so each player may see and recognize what the enemy is doing and react on it, action/counteraction, the animation should be slow up to moderate, as well so it could give as the feeling of a fight not just spinning avatars. 

This would be the foundation for a good skill based fight . Look at Eve online... and other games which rely on skilled fight. 

 

Games with bad combat system in the sandbox area are games like Black Desert where the players just hit 4 buttons and you cant even see which ability the character does because the animation is too fast and unclear.

 

any thoughts?

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I found equipment matters heavily in combat systems.  You grind toward the "Legendary stuff"  and you win the combat.  Savy button smashers will edge some of this, but they have also done the grinding and done it very fast.   I favor  a system over items for combat.  I also agree with the speed idea, as many times you end up dead and really have not any idea of what hit you.  Or I don't... hmm.. it may be just me :)

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Tera's pace at cap was very appropriate.  Even with today's glut of attack speed bonuses on gear, it's a very good pace.  Given they will be borrowing explicitly from Tera and DCUO as their major inspirations, I'm willing to bet combat pace will feel fast while still being tactically deliberate.  It won't be a button mash between hotkeys and queuing the next logical ability.  You'll be considering the abilities you have available, will consider which to use based on the enemy's approach or how you want to approach them, and react or counter appropriately to your opponent's advancement or reaction.  You also have to be able to land your skill unlike traditional MMOs.

 

I'm sure we'll see a great end result.

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I am excited to test the game this way, and I am impressed at how open and intelligently you will be trying "to find the fun" for Crowfall's combat system. Cheers

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question, with voxels in place can a siege mean that a building or castle be destroyed right to its foundation? and what kind of impact will that have on the siege itself?

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