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checkyotrack

An Open Letter and Concerns about the Project

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I would like to preface this post with a few statements: This is not meant to be an attack or an attempt to cause dissent. There is a reason why we backed this game. We have great respect for the founders and we love the vision. We love the community. Otherwise we would not be here. We want to see nothing but success for Artcraft. Otherwise we would not have sent pizza and beer. We love you. We are a family. We respect this YOUR company, YOUR game, and YOUR vision.

 

Given recent delevopments and announcements a number of backers have become concerned with the direction of the community that ACE had taken. It was obvious to most the original message of the game was to appeal to the SB and to the lesser extent the Darkfall crowd. Now we see a silencing of the forums and to a great part of the SB the PvP community. This is a worrisome development as many of the original backers and people who were hoping for a niche game are getting run off.

 

Now, this is not an indictment of moderation or an attempt to flaunt our theoretical money badges but get a straight answer. All signs points toward this being a purely monetary venture instead of an attempt to create a niche community. If ACE will not cultivate a diverse community in regards to the inherent and sometimes abrasive nature of the communities they pandered to it makes us wonder: Do we have hope for the game?

 

We are not out of touch with the way things work in a capitalistic society. ACE needs money to complete the vision. But what cost will it take?

 

Constructively what can we do to assist ACE in meeting these goals and find the middle ground as J. Todd is wholely responsible in turning us into to rampant unpleasant people and trolls with his former game, "Shadowbane".

 

It could very well be though that we, people who have been playing the same MMO for twelve years, are out of touch with the community and need to evolve with the times. If anything I hope the very least that the team takes from this is that their boss, in 2003 cultivated a community so badass and hardcore, that we are still complaining twelve years later.

 

Also I may have drank a lot of rum and Agelmar is a wonderful human being.

 

Edit: plz change my name back to checkyotrack

Edited by CheckYoSelf

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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I would like to preface this post with a few statements: This is not meant to be an attack or an attempt to cause dissent. There is a reason why we backed this game. We have great respect for the founders and we love the vision. We love the community. Otherwise we would not be here. We want to see nothing but success for Artcraft. Otherwise we would not have sent pizza and beer. We love you. We are a family. We respect this YOUR company, YOUR game, and YOUR vision.

 

If you respect them you don't need to fill the forums with mindless trolls and mess with innocent posters that have no interest in petty troll exchanges and would rather focus on discussing things related to the development of the game. 

 

Given recent delevopments and announcements a number of backers have become concerned with the direction of the community that ACE had taken. It was obvious to most the original message of the game was to appeal to the SB and to the lesser extent the Darkfall crowd. Now we see a silencing of the forums and to a great part of the SB the PvP community. This is a worrisome development as many of the original backers and people who were hoping for a niche game are getting run off.

 

It seems the backers you are referring to, at least from what i've seen, are the people that generally spam posted and felt like these were their forums to run around and do whatever they wanted in.  Times are changing, the game will be exposed to more and more players, and ACE is trying to show that they mean business, they are making a PvP game, but they are not going to tolerate a toxic forum environment.  The forums aren't silent at all, people can discuss things about the game without much issue.  Also SB =! the pvp community, SB was a drop in the pond.  I don't think this game is going to change from being a niche game, but it won't be a game specifically and only for your tastes.  And anyone that thinks that no matter who they are or which game they come from would be misguided.  This game will appeal to MANY different kinds of players. 

Now, this is not an indictment of moderation or an attempt to flaunt our theoretical money badges but get a straight answer. All signs points toward this being a purely monetary venture instead of an attempt to create a niche community. If ACE will not cultivate a diverse community in regards to the inherent and sometimes abrasive nature of the communities they pandered to it makes us wonder: Do we have hope for the game?

 

I think ACE has done a pretty good job, they drew a lot of interest for their game, ran a successful kickstarter, have been giving good updates pretty frequently (especially compared to other games in a similar stage of development) but like the game is in pre pre-alpha, so is the community.  They have rules for their official forums, these rules aren't particularly difficult to follow with a bit of self-control and respect for other posters.  Nothing about that blocks the cultivation of diverse communities, they just have no interest especially while their priority is to get the game made, to make this a playground for toxic behavior.  Toxic communities can cultivate elsewhere, it doesn't NEED to happen on the forums. 

 

We are not out of touch with the way things work in a capitalistic society. ACE needs money to complete the vision. But what cost will it take?

 

Lol.... not allowing a few people to spam junk posts isn't really a gigantic cost and I am sure they won't lose any sleep over that. 

 

Constructively what can we do to assist ACE in meeting these goals and find the middle ground as J. Todd is wholely responsible in turning us into to rampant unpleasant people and trolls with his former game, "Shadowbane".

 

You are responsible for your own actions. 

 

It could very well be though that we, people who have been playing the same MMO for twelve years, are out of touch with the community and need to evolve with the times. If anything I hope the very least that the team takes from this is that their boss, in 2003 cultivated a community so badass and hardcore, that we are still complaining twelve years later.

 

I remember a poster that was basically telling the whole late era sb community that they would need to evolve to a more modern gaming culture... 

 

Also I may have drank a lot of rum and Agelmar is a wonderful human being.

 

Edit: plz change my name back to checkyotrack


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Are you answering on behalf of ace VN?    Not your place to.    I believe this was addressed to the devs.  I agree CYS.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Are you answering on behalf of ace VN?    Not your place to.    I believe this was addressed to the devs.  I agree CYS.

I believe these are public forums and as he has shared his thoughts, I will share mine on the matter. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'm glad VikingNail has posted. As someone who has a history of oppositional posts it is important for all of us to be challenged in what we say IMO.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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And we will wait to see how/if ACE  responds as well.    Because in the end, this is their house and they make the rules.   We just need to determine what they are now and if they have changed.   


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Im not quite as old as you guys, nor did i play shadowbane. I have played many MMO's though, and gotten very irritated with them. I understand what your saying Check, and in a few ways i agree with you. Though personally i don't really care what the final form the game takes as longs as its different. As long as they don't fall into the trap of making it too micro transaction based ill be happy. I think on a certain level though they cant possibly meet your expectations though, you've been waiting so long and its such a different game.  I like you check, i'm entertained by a lot of your posts. but i think that you might have a bad time in the final form of this game because you remember shadowbane so fondly. I hope you can have a good time in a game that's not a lot like shadowbane.

 

all this has been said before but i felt like posting it anyway. just my feelings on the direction the dev's are going. It'll be a good time but probably not what the old shadowbane players want.

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I've already gotten 2 warnings from arawulf for writing the word "autism". What's wrong with the word autism?

I think the problem is when you try to use it in a derogatory way...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think the problem is when you try to use it in a derogatory way...

It's a shame that arawulf gave me warnings for it. I was using it as a compliment. People like Mozart, Tim Burton, Andy Warhol, Stanley Kubrick, Tesla, Einstein, etc. has/had autism.

Edited by macavity

7ug90hM.png


 


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Im not quite as old as you guys, nor did i play shadowbane. I have played many MMO's though, and gotten very irritated with them. I understand what your saying Check, and in a few ways i agree with you. Though personally i don't really care what the final form the game takes as longs as its different. As long as they don't fall into the trap of making it too micro transaction based ill be happy. I think on a certain level though they cant possibly meet your expectations though, you've been waiting so long and its such a different game.  I like you check, i'm entertained by a lot of your posts. but i think that you might have a bad time in the final form of this game because you remember shadowbane so fondly. I hope you can have a good time in a game that's not a lot like shadowbane.

 

all this has been said before but i felt like posting it anyway. just my feelings on the direction the dev's are going. It'll be a good time but probably not what the old shadowbane players want.

After reading a bit about a new game called Das Tal I noticed that Lords of Death, an older pvp guild was participating in the alpha.  Out of boredom I clicked on their shadowbane history on their website just to see what their perception of certain events related to my guild and nation were compared to my own.  While they didn't say much in regard to that specifically... a really cool part of their account of history was them posting a short quote from one of their members where after ticking off my nation and dealing with the consequences of their actions they admitted that their old way of doing things would not be adequate, that they would have to adapt and do things a bit differently.  Embracing this philosophy they went on to find their own version of success in the game and seem to still enjoy playing with one another as over a decade later they are playing games like Das Tal together and having a blast.

 

I think a lot of the old shadowbane players/guilds will eventually face a similar reality check when they get run over.  I have my own views on some of the current guilds/players from sb that currently follow this game, but whatever I think the bottom line is this.... They can either adapt or fail to adapt... and failing to adapt and sitting in their corner just comforting each other by telling each other they are still badass or hardcore isn't going to mean anything.

 

We've already seen some of the more vocal members express displeasure and decide that following the game was not for them.... one thing we know about ACE's vision is that they said from the getgo, that this game would not be for everyone. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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this is an adventure and we all have to find our ways. this includes the ways a community can be managed. it always takes time to get to the most fitting one. and it will never stop to evolve. nobody can expect that this will be a road that is made of rose petals.

 

for example will we have to find a way how we can follow the rules, but also express our concerns and improvement suggestions freely. this is actually not really possible and this conflict will cause enduring distortions within the community. and that is good for nobody.

 

(one way could for example be a non-public complaint- or even a rampage-board, where we can speak it all out, but internally.) 

 

 


 

 

It's a shame

 

as the OP said, this shall be a constructive thread. please behave in accordance to this.

 

if you feel treated wrong, the right way should be to talk directely to the person/s involved (just click at the avatar picture and then on "send me a message" in the profil and send your message).

if the result is not pleasing, you can go further and send an email to support@crowfall.com and try to explain the problem constructively.

 

posting like yours can unfortunately cause warning points or a thread lock, because of the direct complaint about moderator actions (against roc). this should be in nobodys interest, so please bear this in mind next time.

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for example will we have to find a way how we can follow the rules, but also express our concerns and improvement suggestions freely. this is actually not really possible and this conflict will cause enduring distortions within the community. and that is good for nobody.

I do think it is possible to follow the rules and also express your concerns and improvement suggestions.  I don't think it is unreasonable to expect people to be respectful or civil when conveying their thoughts on something. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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It could very well be though that we, people who have been playing the same MMO for twelve years, are out of touch with the community and need to evolve with the times. If anything I hope the very least that the team takes from this is that their boss, in 2003 cultivated a community so badass and hardcore, that we are still complaining twelve years later.

 

I believe 100%. The developers are trying to make something new not same thing that they made 12 years ago with the same type of community. If they are aiming for a new type of community and their old community shows back up to try and take over, they have all the right to do what they see fit to make what they really want to happen.

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