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checkyotrack

An Open Letter and Concerns about the Project

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I do think it is possible to follow the rules and also express your concerns and improvement suggestions.  I don't think it is unreasonable to expect people to be respectful or civil when conveying their thoughts on something. 

 

 

i think you missed my point / i didnt make it clear enough. because it hasnt much to do with being respectful.

 

an alpha community is bound to evolve a climate of open discussion, even and especially regarding critical subjects. thats their job.

the rules prohibit to discuss any employee's actions. no matter if respectful or not. as this is not really defined, it can be applied to everything.

if we have to discuss some subjects, but are not allowed to discuss others, than this contrariness will cause recurrent disturbances. especially if the borders between them are not clear enough.

 

it is within our natural resposibility to play our part in the community development process. this is simply a part of the whole development process. there is not just a game to develop. its a community, too. it has to be done and it has to be delivered much earlier than the game itself. who will play a pvp game with a broken community? 

the problem i see is, that we and artcraft still have to understand this and what this means in full scale-- and act accordingly. 

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It's a shame that arawulf gave me warnings for it. I was using it as a compliment. People like Mozart, Tim Burton, Andy Warhol, Stanley Kubrick, Tesla, Einstein, etc. has/had autism.

Not to mention Chenghis-khan and Kim Kardashian

Edited by rajah

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i think you missed my point / i didnt make it clear enough. because it hasnt much to do with being respectful.

 

an alpha community is bound to evolve a climate of open discussion, even and especially regarding critical subjects. thats their job.

the rules prohibit to discuss any employee's actions. no matter if respectful or not. as this is not really defined, it can be applied to everything.

if we have to discuss some subjects, but are not allowed to discuss others, than this contrariness will cause recurrent disturbances. especially if the borders between them are not clear enough.

 

it is within our natural resposibility to play our part in the community development process. this is simply a part of the whole development process. there is not just a game to develop. its a community, too. it has to be done and it has to be delivered much earlier than the game itself. who will play a pvp game with a broken community? 

the problem i see is, that we and artcraft still have to understand this and what this means in full scale-- and act accordingly. 

What do you mean the rules prohibit discussing employee actions?  Are you perhaps referring to the rules preventing people from discussing specific cases of moderation publicly when instead they should be mailed to ace's support email?  That isn't really a thing that is critical to the development of the game itself, as cases of moderation should indeed be private matters and people shouldn't drag that specific kind of dirty laundry all over the forums. 

 

This community makes up what would be a tiny percentage of the eventual playerbase... it does not have enough sway to break the community... nor has a large portion of the community expressed any dissatisfaction with ACE cleaning up their forums. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I think this thread needed to happen eventually, and I support CheckyTracky in writing it. 

 

It started as Play2Crush and the forums pre-kickstarter and during KS was fun and there were a few battles amongst forum members. This was normal, as Crowfall had catered to PVP players with the hardcore PVP mindset. 

 

What we see now is changes to make the forum less catered to PVP'ers, and more to the average gamer by silencing the majority of the forumbase and making a "safe haven" for newer users.

Edited by zinnie

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I think this thread needed to happen eventually, and I support CheckyTracky in writing it. 

 

It started as Play2Crush and the forums pre-kickstarter and during KS was fun and there were a few battles amongst forum members. This was normal, as Crowfall had catered to PVP players with the hardcore PVP mindset. 

 

What we see now is changes to make the forum less catered to PVP'ers, and more to the average gamer by silencing the majority of the forumbase and making a "safe haven" for newer users.

Eh.... When did ACE cater to the hardcore pvp mindset?  They may have allowed people to run a bit wild for a while, but that's not really catering to them, that's just prioritizing what they needed to get done, as forums became more important they started cleaning them up.

 

They definitely haven't silenced the majority of the active forumbase... they've merely decided that people need to clean up their behavior. 

 

The forums did not need the junk posts that were there just for the sake of being junk posts.

 

Edit:  In the end it boils down to self-control... ACE has been very lenient and forgiving with behavior, I can attest to this myself... They've shown their desire to make this a community that tries to contribute to making the game, not some offshoot of 4chan.  Either people have the self-control to behave in a productive way to help this game get done and truly are supportive of ACE... or they value their own agendas of destructive behavior more. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Eh.... When did ACE cater to the hardcore pvp mindset?  They may have allowed people to run a bit wild for a while, but that's not really catering to them, that's just prioritizing what they needed to get done, as forums became more important they started cleaning them up.

 

They definitely haven't silenced the majority of the active forumbase... they've merely decided that people need to clean up their behavior. 

 

The forums did not need the junk posts that were there just for the sake of being junk posts.

 

Edit:  In the end it boils down to self-control... ACE has been very lenient and forgiving with behavior, I can attest to this myself... They've shown their desire to make this a community that tries to contribute to making the game, not some offshoot of 4chan.  Either people have the self-control to behave in a productive way to help this game get done and truly are supportive of ACE... or they value their own agendas of destructive behavior more. 

 

 

Its a good debate to have, since it seems like two forum groups disagree with eachother.

 

In my opinion, what Ace has done is babysitting the community to fit with their increasingly casualization of the playerbase whilst forgetting about the PVP crowd from Shadowbane and Darkfall that did a great job pushing this game from the beginning when it was just Play2Crush and a countdown timer.

 

I have no doubt that some people like these changes, as Forumfall isnt fun for everyone, and the playful nature of some people was too much for the feint hearted gamer.

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Its a good debate to have, since it seems like two forum groups disagree with eachother.

 

In my opinion, what Ace has done is babysitting the community to fit with their increasingly casualization of the playerbase whilst forgetting about the PVP crowd from Shadowbane and Darkfall that did a great job pushing this game from the beginning when it was just Play2Crush and a countdown timer.

 

I have no doubt that some people like these changes, as Forumfall isnt fun for everyone, and the playful nature of some people was too much for the feint hearted gamer.

I agree that it is a good debate to have... unfortunately in a debate like this I feel my hands are kind of tied because I can't administer true real talk without fraying some egos. 

 

This isn't really forumfall... forumfall happened on the darkfall forums, this and "forumbane" are/were much tamer by comparison.  I don't think ACE ever wanted their forums to be a forumfall type environment.  They were trying to welcome many different types of players to the game.

 

I also think it is disingenuous to label it as playful nature on one side and it  being too much for the feint hearted.  It paints one side in a positive light and implies another side has some sort of deficiency.  I know for a fact that it's not playful nature because those same people that spammed their "playful nature" down the throats of others would then throw a hissy fit when you turned it back onto them.  At that point it's not really playful nature but instead just a case of some people enjoying throwing their weight around at the expense of others.... similar in mentality to the way a bully might operate. 

 

To me all of this stuff is whatever though... in the end it comes down to whether people want to contribute posts that help build the game, or not.  The internet is a gigantic place, if people really need somewhere to spam junk posts there are plenty of places out there on the net. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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This community makes up what would be a tiny percentage of the eventual playerbase...

 

So what? We are responsible for the success of the Kickstarter campaign and to a certain degree the future of the game.

Play2Crush has become Pay2Write4Warnings

 

I understand the need to have safe forums for new players (which as of now are not having much success), but what happened to the ONE sub-forumbane we asked for months ago? Either guilds politics or politics in general, I don't really care.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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So what? We are responsible for the success of the Kickstarter campaign and to a certain degree the future of the game.

Play2Crush has become Pay2Write4Warnings

 

I understand the need to have safe forums for new players (which as of now are not having much success), but all we asked for months ago was ONE sub-forumbane. Either guilds politics or politics in general, I don't really care.

I think you are forgetting that play2crush isn't the only place people heard about and decided to crowdfund this game.  So when you say "We are responsible for the success of the Kickstart campaign" who are you referring to?  Cause many people were responsible for that success and not all of them share similar views on the nature of the forums.  If you helped crowdfund the game i'm sure ACE appreciates you as a supporter/customer... but that doesn't make you, or you and a group of your friends the priority... thousands of people from all sorts of different backgrounds crowdfunded this game.  As far as "Pay2Write4Warnings".... that's a self-control issue... it's not that hard to stay within their guidelines. 

 

ACE isn't holding a gun to anyone's head demanding that they post.  Nor are they preventing you from posting about the developmental aspects of the game and even debate them, but they do expect you to do it in a civil way, which is not unreasonable. 

 

Why do you need a sub-forumbane?  There are plenty of places on the net for wild behavior....

 

Edit:  When I contributed to crowdfunding this game, I was doing it in support of ACE's vision, not in support of what I wanted their vision to be.  These are 2 different things.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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If you helped crowdfund the game i'm sure ACE appreciates you as a supporter/customer... but that doesn't make you, or you and a group of your friends the priority..

 

How is making a subforum that slightly resemble forumbane (after they clearly baited us with play2crush) prioritizing anything?

Do you even read your posts?

 

As far as "Pay2Write4Warnings".... that's a self-control issue... it's not that hard to stay within their guidelines.

 

Lol, if you haven't been warned yet for a perfectly fine post you're lucky, that's all. I suspect you've been warned before on your first account though.

 

Why do you need a sub-forumbane?  There are plenty of places on the net for wild behavior....

 

Why not? It's not like anyone forces you to read it.

 

On another note, no need to answer. The last thing I want is to start an argument with someone who always want the last words.

I understand you're insulted for how the SB community has been treating you. ;)

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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The last thing I want is to start an argument with someone who always want the last words.

 

Ad hominem

 

 

How is making a subforum that slightly resemble forumbane (after they clearly baited us with play2crush) prioritizing?

 

I played shadowbane... I didn't feel baited by play2crush... it does say PLAY2crush not POST2crush...  Anyway the prioritizing comment is in relation to the fact that many people crowdfunded their game, not just you, and your desires are not MORE or LESS important than theirs. 

 

Do you even read your posts?

 

 

Lol, if you haven't been warned yet for a perfectly fine post you're lucky, that's all. I suspect you've been warned before on your first account though.

 

If you think their guidelines are impossible to follow I don't know what to tell you, they are easy to follow if someone just wants to contribute to the development of the game. 

 

 

Why not? It's not like anyone forces you to read it.

 

Why not?  Because they are professionals trying to make a game that will be taken seriously in 2015.  Having a game that promotes toxicity (and yes even having a subforum on your official forums that allows toxic behavior is perceived as promoting it) would be bad for business.  The benefits do not outweigh the costs.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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ACE isn't holding a gun to anyone's head demanding that they post.  Nor are they preventing you from posting about the developmental aspects of the game and even debate them, but they do expect you to do it in a civil way, which is not unreasonable. 

 

 

But they did advertise the game as Game of Thrones meets Eve Online, and what we have now in the forum is more a The Sims meets Barbies Dreamhouse Party..

 

Thats why people are having issues. Whats to say that ACE wont make changes to the core game aswell to cater to a broader audience?

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But they did advertise the game as Game of Thrones meets Eve Online, and what we have now in the forum is more a The Sims meets Barbies Dreamhouse Party..

 

Thats why people are having issues. Whats to say that ACE wont make changes to the core game aswell to cater to a broader audience?

The game isn't out yet... these are the forums, and right now ACE is hoping you will use them to help build their game. 

 

Has ACE made changes to the core game so far?  I have yet to see them do something that isn't common sense or extremely logical. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Why not?  Because they are professionals trying to make a game that will be taken seriously in 2015.  Having a game that promotes toxicity (and yes even having a subforum on your official forums that allows toxic behavior is perceived as promoting it) would be bad for business.  The benefits do not outweigh the costs.

 

Facepalm_by_Rolzor.gifFacepalm_by_Rolzor.gif

 

sure, an MMO based on game of thrones CANNOT promote toxic behavior... you would be a great dev

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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Facepalm_by_Rolzor.gifFacepalm_by_Rolzor.gif

 

sure, an MMO based on game of thrones CANNOT allow toxicity behavior... you would be a great dev

We're not even playing the game right now though... we are posting on forums for a game that is pre pre-alpha... the priority right now should be helping them get the game made... 

 

Also you can't completely take the game of thrones reference 100% literally... it's not like the game is going to have nudity and beheading and stuff.  Obviously when they refer to game of thrones they are talking about the politics , plotting, and scheming. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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We're not even playing the game right now though... we are posting on forums for a game that is pre pre-alpha... the priority right now should be helping them get the game made... 

 

 

we are worried that the changes made during pre-alpha is also something they are considering for the game aswell.

And its better to nip it in the bud early, than to have to quit playing a game you didnt back in the first place.

 

If a guy can go all SJW in the forum after I have camped him in the game for 3 days and gets me banned, then that isnt the hardcore pvp game I signed up for during kickstarter.

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we are worried that the changes made during pre-alpha is also something they are considering for the game aswell.

And its better to nip it in the bud early, than to have to quit playing a game you didnt back in the first place.

 

If a guy can go all SJW in the forum after I have camped him in the game for 3 days and gets me banned, then that isnt the hardcore pvp game I signed up for during kickstarter.

Which changes in pre-alpha have indicated that ACE have a proclivity towards changing their vision?

 

What does SJW on the forum have to do with camping in game?  Shouldn't you just be following the rules to not have any reason to get banned on the forums or in game?


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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There hasn't been a single announcement contrary to the original goals of this game. It has always been Play2Crush. It has never been Post2Crush. The ability to spam, curse, mock, insult, derail, and link NSFW content on forums has no bearing on the design of the game.

 

People backed a PvP MMO. Not PvP forums. Read the CoC. Follow the rules

 

If this turns into a complaint thread about moderation I'll lock it.


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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