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checkyotrack

An Open Letter and Concerns about the Project

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There hasn't been a single announcement contrary to the original goals of this game. It has always been Play2Crush. It has never been Post2Crush. The ability to spam, curse, mock, insult, derail, and link NSFW content on forums has no bearing on the design of the game.

 

People backed a PvP MMO. Not PvP forums. Read the CoC. Follow the rules

 

If this turns into a complaint thread about moderation I'll lock it.

 

You know we love you <3

 

This thread was never about moderation, but about the overall changes in the forum.

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You know we love you <3

 

This thread was never about moderation, but about the overall changes in the forum.

I think with proper context it's kind of obvious that some moderation related things were at least a partial catalyst to the OP.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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There hasn't been a single announcement contrary to the original goals of this game. It has always been Play2Crush. It has never been Post2Crush. The ability to spam, curse, mock, insult, derail, and link NSFW content on forums has no bearing on the design of the game.

 

People backed a PvP MMO. Not PvP forums. Read the CoC. Follow the rules

 

If this turns into a complaint thread about moderation I'll lock it.

 

There has been a fair push regarding announcements regarding the aspects of the game which can be monetized, which only applies to the EK's.  The only real update regarding PvP for a little bit now has been regarding how testing will work when combat testing time rolls around.  I get that, more money means more game on a better schedule.  May 7th was the last combat-focused update.  Since then the topics have been, in order: 

  • Coins
  • Buy our stuff for a friend
  • EK
  • We may change EK stuff you bought, here's our plan for that
  • EK
  • Backer-only forums
  • Centaurs are Romans
  • Backers get more stuff for their EK
  • Testing will be iterative

Fair or not, this is taken as a pattern of focus to some of us and it leads to concern.


 

Er, what's "edging"?

 

 

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In the end, aslong as I can make a grown man cry babytears because I camp him non-stop for a week, I am happy. I am against Devs protecting care-bears from things they deem is "harrassment" and does not "feel good"

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In the end, aslong as I can make a grown man cry babytears because I camp him non-stop for a week, I am happy. I am against Devs protecting care-bears from things they deem is "harrassment" and does not "feel good"

You can make people cry without breaking the rules in or out of game. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You can make people cry without breaking the rules in or out of game. 

 

Exactly, what I am against is changing the rules mid-way when people start SJW'ing in the forum demanding change.

Or making the rules too protective of the care-snots before the game is launched.

 

If I have to thread on eggshells because I might hurt a grown mans feelings when I kill him repeatedly is the day this game is not a pvp game.

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Exactly, what I am against is changing the rules mid-way when people start SJW'ing in the forum demanding change.

Or making the rules too protective of the care-snots before the game is launched.

 

If I have to thread on eggshells because I might hurt a grown mans feelings when I kill him repeatedly is the day this game is not a pvp game.

Have no fear Gordon Walton already said you can PvP to your heart's content.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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There hasn't been a single announcement contrary to the original goals of this game. It has always been Play2Crush. It has never been Post2Crush. The ability to spam, curse, mock, insult, derail, and link NSFW content on forums has no bearing on the design of the game.

 

If you can't understand why a political subforum without heavy moderation is needed in a Shadowbane kind of game, I don't know what to tell you. Communities and players need it, but now they'll have to move elsewhere in order to fuel competition and diplomacy.

And ACE can only lose credibility by splitting their community. If that was the intention, though, well done.

 

Do you think forumbane was a mistake (or forumfall)? Those forums were unquestionably part of the game.

Alliances and wars were started by a couple of posts.

 

The ability to spam, curse, mock, insult, derail, and link NSFW content on forums has no bearing on the design of the game.

 

1. There are tens of topics full of spam, mostly in Guilds forum;

2. People gets mocked all the time;

3. Half the topics are derailed already;

4. Your definition of "not safe to watch" might be too damn harsh if a video took from /r/funny in a goons topic suddenly is too much.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

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If you can't understand why a political subforum without heavy moderation is needed in a Shadowbane kind of game, I don't know what to tell you. Communities and players need it, and now they'll have to move elsewhere in order to fuel competition and diplomacy.

ACE gains nothing by splitting their community.

 

Do you think forumbane was a mistake (or forumfall, for what that matters)? Those forums were unquestionably part of the game.

 

 

1. There are tens of topics full of spam, mostly in Guilds forum;

2. People gets mocked all the time;

3. Half the topics are derailed already;

4. Your definition of "not safe to watch" might be too damn harsh if a video took from /r/funny in a goons topic suddenly is too much.

 

TBH, you're right... there is a need for a forum that is less moderated.  But, that doesn't have to be on the official forums.  Furthermore, there are no politics to discuss, so you can't use that as an excuse for a less moderated subforum yet.

 

Once the game gets into late Alpha/early Beta, maybe... but again, I'm of the opinion that you don't need that on the official forums.

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Wow, I'm going to have to fetch a small violin for this one.

 

All I'm seeing is tears about not being able to bully/mock people you don't agree with on ACE official forums and try to imply this was promised to you by ACE.

 

If you ever thought that was going to happen/fly in the long run, you are the one that needs (quite ironically) to check yo self.

 

Just because moderation was not full on when they established the forums and probably had much bigger concerns at the time does not make it okay to do whatever you want and then take it for granted. Official forums need to be properly moderated or it just does not look professional. They did the right thing, yes they should have done so from the get go but hey, no one is perfect.

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Wow, I'm going to have to fetch a small violin for this one.

 

All I'm seeing is tears about not being able to bully/mock people you don't agree with on ACE official forums and try to imply this was promised to you by ACE.

 

If you ever thought that was going to happen/fly in the long run, you are the one that needs (quite ironically) to check yo self.

 

Just because moderation was not full on when they established the forums and probably had much bigger concerns at the time does not make it okay to do whatever you want and then take it for granted. Official forums need to be properly moderated or it just does not look professional. They did the right thing, yes they should have done so from the get go but hey, no one is perfect.

lol


gtlLXYT.png

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What do you mean the rules prohibit discussing employee actions?  Are you perhaps referring to the rules preventing people from discussing specific cases of moderation publicly when instead they should be mailed to ace's support email?  That isn't really a thing that is critical to the development of the game itself, as cases of moderation should indeed be private matters and people shouldn't drag that specific kind of dirty laundry all over the forums. 

 

This community makes up what would be a tiny percentage of the eventual playerbase... it does not have enough sway to break the community... nor has a large portion of the community expressed any dissatisfaction with ACE cleaning up their forums. 

 

No. I was reffering to the rule: "If you disagree with a moderator or employee's actions, do not discuss or challenge the matter in forum posts." And i spoke about it in a very specific context to explain a thought. If you prefer to change a constructive conversation into your personal tournament or simply dont want to dive into other peoples thoughts, thats ok, its your vested right. Go on.

 

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All I'm seeing is tears about not being able to bully/mock people you don't agree with on ACE official forums and try to imply this was promised to you by ACE.

 

I am just going to leave this here.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/21/crowfall-creative-director-game-is-not-for-everyone/

 

If people want to get butt hurt and cry foul when things gets heated, then perhaps The Sims is a better game for you.

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I am just going to leave this here.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/21/crowfall-creative-director-game-is-not-for-everyone/

 

If people want to get butt hurt and cry foul when things gets heated, then perhaps The Sims is a better game for you.

I think ACE's point is that the game might not be built for everyone, but the forums are.  So, shape up! :D

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Just because moderation was not full on when they established the forums and probably had much bigger concerns at the time does not make it okay to do whatever you want and then take it for granted. Official forums need to be properly moderated or it just does not look professional. They did the right thing, yes they should have done so from the get go but hey, no one is perfect.

These forums were heavily moderated in the beginning.  So much so that one Guild had most of its members banned.   And then................they were "relaxed"  pre ks'er and during.  Now, post ks'er we seem to be reverting back to the "early"  days.  Read what you want into that.  

 

Perhaps the "official" forums are simply meant to be more of a "marketing" tool and less of a "development" tool.  The ebb and flow of the "tone" has not been consistent.  

 

The "niche" idea appears to have not been replaced simply swept under the rug because let's face it, there are moar sensitive types that appear daily and let's face it, they are skeered off easily and take their plastic with them.  Without using it.  THAT is not going to help fund a game.  

 

In Todds "Odd Bedfellows" post he advised that players from "certain" games get thicker skin.  I guess we now are wondering WHY thicker skin is any longer needed.  It'a all pretty PC and has been for a while.  How PC can you get though w/o running off one factor of the equation and still have a sum total that equals niche? 

 

A candle being burned on both ends at some point meets the middle.   And the flame dies.  For both ends.  

Edited by ellie

Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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I am just going to leave this here.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/21/crowfall-creative-director-game-is-not-for-everyone/

 

If people want to get butt hurt and cry foul when things gets heated, then perhaps The Sims is a better game for you.

 

Dude you should just get with the program. ACE want these forums for now to be about constructive feedback for the alpha stages of the game and not about what 97% of your 1185 post are made of.

 

Don't worry once the game has launched I am certain there will be guild forums for all the "playful" interactions you so desire. In the meantime find your local primary school and go take the kids lunch money it should hold you over until the core module is ready.

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These forums were heavily moderated in the beginning.  So much so that one Guild had most of its members banned.   And then................they were "relaxed"  pre ks'er and during.  Now, post ks'er we seem to be reverting back to the "early"  days.  Read what you want into that.  

 

Perhaps the "official" forums are simply meant to be more of a "marketing" tool and less of a "development" tool.  The ebb and flow of the "tone" has not been consistent.  

 

The "niche" idea appears to have not been replaced simply swept under the rug because let's face it, there are moar sensitive types that appear daily and let's face it, they are skeered off easily and take their plastic with them.  Without using it.  THAT is not going to help fund a game.  

 

In Todds "Odd Bedfellows" post he advised that players from "certain" games get thicker skin.  I guess we now are wondering WHY thicker skin is any longer needed.  It'a all pretty PC and has been for a while.  How PC can you get though w/o running off one factor of the equation and still have a sum total that equals niche? 

 

A candle being burned on both ends at some point meets the middle.   And the flame dies.  For both ends.  

 

I see your point.

 

But I think it has nothing to do with sensitive people or care bears or the game not being niche anymore. It is just hard to have a constructive discussion when every two post derail or just flat out insults the OP with zero constructive feedback and I think people who actually care about trying to help making this game better are tired of constantly having to rebuke personal attacks (or jest/good fun as you like to call it) while trying to have a constructive discussion.

 

And apparently so is ACE so I don't think there is much else to discuss here and we need to accept that it is what they want and get on with it. There will always be a place later when the game is on for trash talk and jest. Dev forums are not that place.

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This is not an attempt to argue for free reign or free passes to do whatever we want on the forum. Moderation is an important tool. However no one wants to be stifled. All of us have great anticipation for this game. That excitement level inherently leads to conflict between more opinionated or vocal posters. Having moderation in those situations to ensure they do not spin out of control is incredibly important.

 

Also, this thread wasn't about community moderation per se but to question the direction the community is going in general.

Edited by CheckYoSelf

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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Dude you should just get with the program. ACE want these forums for now to be about constructive feedback for the alpha stages of the game and not about what 97% of your 1185 post are made of.

 

Don't worry once the game has launched I am certain there will be guild forums for all the "playful" interactions you so desire. In the meantime find your local primary school and go take the kids lunch money it should hold you over until the core module is ready.

 

 

Um, sir, this post is about constructive feedback. If you don't have something to contribute I would ask that you please calm down, your attacks and malice towards a specific "group" or "person" is scaring away the playerbase to actually contributing their thoughts. thank you.

 

 

Edit: P.S. double posts are not appreciated, if you have more you want to contribute please utilize the "edit" button and do not spam a topic. It leads to the closing of a valuable topic. Thanks again.

Edited by knossos

You're hilarious dude, you deserve awards for your degree of wit and intelligence, you truly do.

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