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Meet the combatants - Official discussion thread

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(artistic license on quote)

Exposing Sin with Condemnation and Absolving it with Cleansing Fire sounds right.

The Tag visible to players could be a big scarlet A on the target's chest.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Too  many people want invisibility for every archetype imo

 

In the Confessor sub forum, there is an inquisitor thread where people suggested an inquisitor profession. I suggested that inquisitor would be anti-stealth in that a light would be cast to reveal hidden players.

 

I don't really get why confessor would want an invisibility spell when they could reveal invisibility as it makes more sense, just my 2c

 

It tends to bleed over into "too many people want X for every archetype imo" . It is part of the "everyone must be an island to themselves" that I talked about in the crafting intro months and months ago. The premise is that over time we as game developers have made characters that are a little bit of everything which has led to  very homogenized characters.

 

We are taking a hard look as we implement the powers and build the archetypes and asking if that kit has powers that don't fit for that role. (Ie if q character has stealth for example, this would break them out of a DPS role and make them a Specialist role. This in turn costs them a certain % of damage output)


Thomas Blair
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It tends to bleed over into "too many people want X for every archetype imo" . It is part of the "everyone must be an island to themselves" that I talked about in the crafting intro months and months ago. The premise is that over time we as game developers have made characters that are a little bit of everything which has led to  very homogenized characters.

 

We are taking a hard look as we implement the powers and build the archetypes and asking if that kit has powers that don't fit for that role. (Ie if q character has stealth for example, this would break them out of a DPS role and make them a Specialist role. This in turn costs them a certain % of damage output)

 

 

Thanks for your response, it is greatly appreciated.

 

I am looking forward to seeing how you will tackle the issue of "everyone must be an island to themselves" and promote more diversity and interdependency. Of course I'm sure you must have already considered that too much interdependency might put archtypes at a standstill such as making them too niche or too situational in many aspects.

 

It's an interesting challenge that not many developers seem to be tackling so therefore homogenization seems like an easy way out in some ways. I wish you luck.


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(artistic license on quote)

The Tag visible to players could be a big scarlet A on the target's chest.

 

Exposing Sin goes with Sin, whereas Guilt would be... hmm, man, It's clearly been too long since I read a bible >.>


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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It tends to bleed over into "too many people want X for every archetype imo" . It is part of the "everyone must be an island to themselves" that I talked about in the crafting intro months and months ago. The premise is that over time we as game developers have made characters that are a little bit of everything which has led to  very homogenized characters.

 

We are taking a hard look as we implement the powers and build the archetypes and asking if that kit has powers that don't fit for that role. (Ie if q character has stealth for example, this would break them out of a DPS role and make them a Specialist role. This in turn costs them a certain % of damage output)

Yes!  Please please please do not do what GW2 did, where every class bleed into each other so much where you lost roles and meaningful class distinction.

Archetypes should be different, with clear strengths and weakness, roles they excel at and ones they do not.  Some may be a bit more generalized, but some should be more specialized as well.

 

On a side note.  Your modelling in ZBrush right?

I swear everyone and their grandmother is using that for modelling these days. Is it really that good? And if so why?

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Yes!  Please please please do not do what GW2 did, where every class bleed into each other so much where you lost roles and meaningful class distinction.

Archetypes should be different, with clear strengths and weakness, roles they excel at and ones they do not.  Some may be a bit more generalized, but some should be more specialized as well.

 

On a side note.  Your modelling in ZBrush right?

I swear everyone and their grandmother is using that for modelling these days. Is it really that good? And if so why?

 

ZBrush is really good at making characters and that is about it, you don't want to use it to make a building or a prop. The reason why it is good for character modeling is because it is like using clay where you can shape and mold it into any liking you want just like real clay. Oops you made a mistake just ball it back up into a basic shape or that area and start shaping/molding it out again, where with Maya if you make and error you could spend hours trying to fix it.

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ZBrush is really good at making characters and that is about it, you don't want to use it to make a building or a prop. The reason why it is good for character modeling is because it is like using clay where you can shape and mold it into any liking you want just like real clay. Oops you made a mistake just ball it back up into a basic shape or that area and start shaping/molding it out again, where with Maya if you make and error you could spend hours trying to fix it.

I just noticed in my limited usage in other modelling programs that they tend to be very time consuming event with relatively simple things, even more so if you make mistakes.  Maybe I'll give it a go someday.

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It tends to bleed over into "too many people want X for every archetype imo" . It is part of the "everyone must be an island to themselves" that I talked about in the crafting intro months and months ago. The premise is that over time we as game developers have made characters that are a little bit of everything which has led to  very homogenized characters.

 

We are taking a hard look as we implement the powers and build the archetypes and asking if that kit has powers that don't fit for that role. (Ie if q character has stealth for example, this would break them out of a DPS role and make them a Specialist role. This in turn costs them a certain % of damage output)

 
It is worth noting though that the greater the degree of character archetype differentiation the harder the game becomes to balance across all of its mechanics, specifically in this context game design decisions you are currently making in the combat experience have ramifications elsewhere.  F.ex an Assassin with winged flight and stealth abilities would appear to have a distinct advantage making opposed embargo delivery runs in the campaign worlds.  If you don't balance stealth by more than just a reduction in DPS a lot of players could end up running alt assassin embargo mules on their secondary accounts.

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Nice pick, though if I were a pre-alpha tester i'd like to try an archer class.

I was thinking that the Frostweaver might offer more test options than the Confessor because she deploys a bow and magic, but I think knights have a bow option.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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To a certain extent, ranged is ranged. The nuances of how bows play differently from lightning bolts can be finetuned in later phases.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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To a certain extent, ranged is ranged. The nuances of how bows play differently from lightning bolts can be finetuned in later phases.

In a basic game, range is range, in a physics based friendly fire game, projectile behavior can be extremely deviant, more so than any other attack type.

 

Magic often billows out in short straight lines and cones, or slow lobbing arcs, or remotely appears. While arrows tend to fly in straight or arced lines at higher speeds and without passing through targets. If there's any justice, arrows will fly further than magic too.

 

They can tack a bow anywhere though, Centaur and Knight could test bows practically, so an archetype isn't as necessary, but I hope they are quite different from magic.

 

Flight is the most unique feature which isn't being represented, following that is tunnelling.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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^ That. In fact, it irks me when magic in games is "just another ranged attack."

 

"Ooooooh, I'm a mystical Wizard wielding unheard-of powers? I can fire this fiery projectile at you from a distance!"

 

*archer steps up and fires a flaming arrow*. "So wait, what's your mystical power?"

 

"CONFOUND IT!"  :P

 

 

I'm not saying no magical spell/ability should EVER resemble a regular ranged projectile. But, jeez... if a glowy effect and damage type are the only thing making it different from a simple arrow, it kinda makes you question why you didn't just make a class called "Hawkeye" instead of Wizard.


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Promotions skew the base a little but never jumps tracks. (jumping tracks was causing conceptual problems "I picked a base dps but all my promtions are support or the 1 dps they made I don't like" , and system problems "all my stats are str and now I need int since I promoted") If we want to jump tracks we should just make a new Archetype that promotes into the same role. Each promotion will skew in a direction but not a completely different character, Ie Knight to Swordsman gains a more DPS based primary attack combo chain, but he does not fall under the DPS role umbrella.

 

I'm now sure that this follows, do you choose the Archetype for the Archetype or for the promotions it provides? For example, in Shadowbane nobody played Rogue, they played Scout or Assassin or some other Rogue promotion.

 

To me the point about that stats seems to re-enforce the need to make all stats relevant in some way to every character.


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Sekket on Mourning. Bhorov on Test Server. Youma the Pirate wherever TSP has sailed.

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To a certain extent, ranged is ranged. The nuances of how bows play differently from lightning bolts can be finetuned in later phases.

 

I was kinda hoping in this game my melee toon would be able to swap in a ranged weapon to harass an enemy at range when it was called for.


 Click here to join the Crowfall Discord chat community

Sekket on Mourning. Bhorov on Test Server. Youma the Pirate wherever TSP has sailed.

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