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primal

RIP The Crowdfunder

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Crowfall is crowdFUNDED. Not crowdSOURCED.

Do you think this project will continue to gain funds from new players if all they saw was a front page with an "enter email here" and weekly email updates? Give me a break.


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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You are shooting yourselves in the foot.  YOU are actively making the forum situation worse.  YOU are going to force ACE into making decisions that are pushing the direction away from the goal we want: an engaged and political community in a bad bottom PvP game.  We warned, closed threads, deleted posts, and IP banned people on the SB forums much more frequently then these forums.  The difference there is you could create a new account and be posting again in minutes.  These forums hold your accountable.  This isn't a negative thing.

Thanks for a response on topic Angelmar.

 

I'm wondering if you are suggesting that "YOU" means me (singular) or the small group of active posters (20)? If so, are you telling me that 1 or 20 people have completely ruined this forum to the point it has ruined the community? Because if I have caused so much damage to a $2million dollar game with 15,000 backers as 1 person, I would of expected to be axed and refunded. $500 is a drop in the bucket to the 2mil. Not saying I want it to happen, but if I am that much of a plague I think the repercussions so far would of been much worse.

 

Also, thank you for bring up moderation practices and opening up the door for us to respond to how it is being done. I think that constant locks and suspensions is not community moderation. I think that pruning, merging, and editing are also tools that we have seen used in almost zero way lately.

 

 

The opinion that ACE wants to keep these forums clean for $$$ is laughable. They want to keep them useful. Todd and Gordon don't log in the Suggestion Box thinking "oh poorly made socks, what kind of game are we making... oh look unicorn mounts! BINGO!" They and their team are using it as a sounding board to get feedback on their decisions. We have the opportunity to help guide and shape their decisions, but the design and direction of the game has been very clearly communicated.

I'm not contesting ACE's flow of ideas or communication, but I do believe the stance on how the community is handed has been done to make it 'pretty' for investors instead of catering to the crowd. Maybe they don't know what they want, they just want everything, and now every crowd is alienated. Here we are today.

 

 

Lighten up Francis.

If the new tools you have gotten have made you 100x better mods than the SB era, how come the forums are dead?


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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It's really sad to see yet another one of these conspiracy theory threads.  

 

Ace had an investment round before KS and have decided to offer another round post-KS to assist in expanding the development team further and deliver the game we want.  It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that KS is purely a community interest tool to gauge the interest within the community, while offering early backers with something special.

 

CF is still Play2Crush and you're still able to perform politics within the forum CoC.

 

Even Star Citizen had $100 million of non-crowd funded investment funds early on.

 

Can we stop with all of this negative conspiracy theories and get back to focus on the game?  It's not constructive at all and just makes those involved look bad, which I'm a bit disappointed in as well.

 

We should be fortunate that there are people out there with $ to invest into making this game a great success, because crowdfunding in CF is definitely not sufficient to delivering the game we're all expecting.

Edited by Nyt

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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wow, I am late to this party 0o   *bow's down in shame*

 

I find it interesting that in a game with 15k backers, theres only about 20-30 people active in the forum.

I've seen more active guildforums than this, which is why I think ACE might have gone the wrong route when it comes to growing its community.

Having followed several pre-launch MMOs I can tell you its simply a natural progression. You're not always going to maintain the same lvl of hype, its just not possible. We had the initial hype train after announcement and the first series of info drops and into the KS campaign. Now its understandably slowing down due to the Dev settling into getting the game made and giving us a slow trickle of info drops. There will always be that ebb and flow of hype and activity. The next milestone for CF is when they start the Alphas and testing the combat system. Can pretty much guarantee the hype will pick up again only to inevitably slow down again until the next milestone.

 

Not trying to simply dismiss or trivialize anyone's concerns here but I just think a little more understanding on how pre-launch MMO community's work would go a long way to ease concerns and not need to have these threads made week after week. Just relax, its going to be a longish ride for the next few or so years, save some energy for later or you'll burn yourself out before we even get to launch.

Edited by pang

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If the new tools you have gotten have made you 100x better mods than the SB era, how come the forums are dead?

 

Because there isn't a game to play yet.  


nAd1VPD.png

"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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Because there isn't a game to play yet.  

 

^^ this.  There's over a year of development left and we are many months away from any playable beta.  Most of the topics have been discussed, it's only natural that we should be entering the "waiting" period... waiting for Ace to move through development and offer updates, which open up discussion.

 

Don't be so impatient.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Because there isn't a game to play yet.

I mean, I know you're old school and telling me to get hip with the times, that these forums aren't what they were a decade ago...but have you been on any other crowdfunded game's forum during prealpha?

 

Things have changed Agelmar, and I almost find it sad that so many people can jump on your coat tails and yell "Yes! There's no game! That's why there's no activity!" when I have seen projects build more hype post-KS to their first playable release, it didn't decline to the point of 100 active posters like this one has. I would encourage anyone here to jump onboard the train of another game and gain a new perspective on how crowd funding communities should be. The blame isn't on material which the devs are clearly putting out on a regular basis, it's the fact that the community team is so out of touch with the crowd they targeted that they cut off their own feet.

 

The activity here is absolutely horrendous, but you can use the "wait until there's something playable" excuse all day if you want. When the playable releases and there's not much of a community, I guess I can start another post with an "I told you so".


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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Even Star Citizen had $100 million of non-crowd funded investment funds early on.

 

Please source this, because the Star Citizen community prides itself on Christ Roberts not needing any non-crowd funding investment. I remember being there to push the very early stretch goal so that it wouldn't happen. Again, please source this or look me up on the SC forums and tell me I am wrong.

 

 

Edit:

 

Also @ you throwing out 100$ million. How ridiculous of a figure could you put out there. I can't believe people fall victim to this sort of false information.

Edited by primal

☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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Things have changed Agelmar, and I almost find it sad that so many people can jump on your coat tails and yell "Yes! There's no game! That's why there's no activity!" when I have seen projects build more hype post-KS to their first playable release, it didn't decline to the point of 100 active posters like this one has. I would encourage anyone here to jump onboard the train of another game and gain a new perspective on how crowd funding communities should be. The blame isn't on material which the devs are clearly putting out on a regular basis, it's the fact that the community team is so out of touch with the crowd they targeted that they cut off their own feet.

 

 

Do you have a list of some of these projects with more post-KS hype, please?  I would like to visit them and see if their forum base tells people to get tough or get out.   :lol:

 

Maybe the decline in the Crowfall community that you claim to see isn't the devs' fault, but the fault of the forum users actions and attitudes?


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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Please source this, because the Star Citizen community prides itself on Christ Roberts not needing any non-crowd funding investment. I remember being there to push the very early stretch goal so that it wouldn't happen. Again, please source this or look me up on the SC forums and tell me I am wrong.

 

 

Edit:

 

Also @ you throwing out 100$ million. How ridiculous of a figure could you put out there. I can't believe people fall victim to this sort of false information.

 

Ok, dug deeper and it was a misquote, which Chris did clear up here:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3910150/#Comment_3910150

 

He also did mention "This is based on our intention to invest all the money we raise during initial development back into the game (which I've been quite public about)", which there was quite a bit of $ invested into SC before the KS.  Most projects do, just to reach the prototype stage that you can share during the KS.

 

The level of crowdfunding between SC and CF is quite significant (I've personally been backing both), that CF really does need more investment funds in order to deliver CF around the projected timeframe.  SC is quite a bit past their initial estimate, which is primarily because the scope of SC expanded significantly during their early crowdfunding goals.

 

Although CF is still within the scope of their original vision, they still could use further investment to offset the slower crowdfunding.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Do you have a list of some of these projects with more post-KS hype, please?  I would like to visit them and see if their forum base tells people to get tough or get out.   :lol:

 

Maybe the decline in the Crowfall community that you claim to see isn't the devs' fault, but the fault of the forum users actions and attitudes?

You can go look at any top-5 post KS funded project. Also, they're projects that understand their community and cater accordingly.

 

Again, if you think I single handedly took down CF activity because of my attitude, you need to reevaluate.

 

 

Ok, dug deeper and it was a misquote, which Chris did clear up here:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3910150/#Comment_3910150

 

He also did mention "This is based on our intention to invest all the money we raise during initial development back into the game (which I've been quite public about)", which there was quite a bit of $ invested into SC before the KS.  Most projects do, just to reach the prototype stage that you can share during the KS.

 

The level of crowdfunding between SC and CF is quite significant (I've personally been backing both), that CF really does need more investment funds in order to deliver CF around the projected timeframe.  SC is quite a bit past their initial estimate, which is primarily because the scope of SC expanded significantly during their early crowdfunding goals.

 

Although CF is still within the scope of their original vision, they still could use further investment to offset the slower crowdfunding.

 

There you go.

 

SC's funding didn't expand because their vision expanded. It expanded because their community expanded and they rode the hype train. I'd also like to point out that my posts were 10x more 'toxic' on those forums than I have ever been here, along with many other users. It garnered discussion, not took down the entire project (obviously).


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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I think that star citizen is not a good example for an active community

 

the community of star citizen is (atleast until I made a break from the forums) just active because they compare EVERY ship to another to death, discuss about pricing of the new ships, what they dont like about existing ships and about the next sale ... 

 

crowfall just dont have so much topics to talk about at the moment. Its really pointless to compare archetypes at the moment and they are not selling anything new, which would create much discussions. 

 

We just need to wait until we get more stuff to discuss about :)

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You can go look at any top-5 post KS funded project. Also, they're projects that understand their community and cater accordingly.

 

Again, if you think I single handedly took down CF activity because of my attitude, you need to reevaluate.

 

 

 

I guess I'll take a look, then.  I've funded or visited a couple of those top-5 and I know how friendly their forums can be compared to this one.  However, maybe ACE does understand the community they want to have rather than the one you (meaning the collective you) think it should have.

 

I don't think you single-handedly did anything.  Do you contribute?  Well, topics like this aren't helping.

Edited by teh_ninjaneer

 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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Expectations.

 

The consternation of the remaining active community is generally centered around those expectations that were set early on by the statements of the developers.  Things such as Todd and Gordon telling people this game won't be for everyone and if you want it to be something other than a players driving the content through PvP, then they don't want your money.  This set the tone for the "hardcore" crowd to believe that they'd finally have their paradise to enjoy as they've enjoyed in past games and communities.  Being able to gank and grief and kill at will within a campaign until another person/community came around to stop them.  Then taking those interactions to the forums to sustain the conflict until they could get back into game and back into the fight.  Granted, those forums can be player driven.

(Truthfully, that experience is a necessity in an MMO with the vision of CF's)

 

KS saw the launch of an unbelievable amount of content.  Setting the expectations that ACE had this game pretty well fleshed out.  After Kickstarter ended, the trickling of information started to dry up.  It slowly dawned on the community as a whole that this game was going to be a methodical progression and that details won't be available until that step is reached.

 

 

 

What is ACE doing now? Well, they've made some interesting decisions such as the "pay to post".  They've stood fast on their position for how the community will act.  They've quit releasing information on their goals for systems.  They've gone after venture funding in order to hire a bigger force in hopes of bringing CF to the community sooner.

I can't fault them for their position about their community moderation.  I can't fault them for not releasing unpolished information.  I can't fault them for going after venture funding to grow their team.  I'd only want to ask this question: "As a crowdfunded game that will continue to seek additional funding from their community through cash shop items such as what Star Citizen and Camelot Unchained have done, do you disagree with the obvious concern of shrinking of the active community on the forums through your 'Pay to Post' strategy?"

 

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I guess I'll take a look, then.  I've funded or visited a couple of those top-5 and I know how friendly their forums can be compared to this one.  However, maybe ACE does understand the community they want to have rather than the one you (meaning the collective you) think it should have.

 

I don't think you single-handedly did anything.  Do you contribute?  Well, topics like this aren't helping.

 

 

Please link me to your contributory topics here so I can evaluate their worth to this community.


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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SC's funding didn't expand because their vision expanded. It expanded because their community expanded and they rode the hype train. I'd also like to point out that my posts were 10x more 'toxic' on those forums than I have ever been here, along with many other users. It garnered discussion, not took down the entire project (obviously).

 

That's not entirely true either.  Even through KS, SC was a far bigger draw than CF was.  Aside from EvE, the MMO industry has been severely lacking in that genre and majority of the early backers remember the Wing Commander days (myself included) and would love to see a modern reboot... even if it was just a single player game. 

 

SC's successful funding in the early days is on the backs of a few with deep pockets that are completionists.  CIG capitalized on early on with limited quantity ship sales (e.g. the Idris) and has since, followed through with slight variants of the same ship.

 

CF is barely getting off the ground with their backer shop, but I just don't see the level of crowdfunding that SC sees.  In order to achieve that, Ace would have to move ArcheTypes as a purchasable character unlock and with limited time sales along with limited quantity sales of special archetypes or variants that come "pre-built" with points, profession, and applied ability points.

 

They're completely different and definitely a different scale of crowdfunding.  To think that CF can be purely crowdfunded is just ignorant on the costs it takes to develop the game we're backing. 


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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...

KS saw the launch of an unbelievable amount of content.  Setting the expectations that ACE had this game pretty well fleshed out.  After Kickstarter ended, the trickling of information started to dry up.  It slowly dawned on the community as a whole that this game was going to be a methodical progression and that details won't be available until that step is reached.

 

Their Vision vs. Implementation.  Todd has mentioned multiple times that what may look good on paper (or the whiteboard) doesn't always translate well in-game.  As they develop their concepts, they have every right to make adjustments in order to "find the fun" points.  Once that is reached, they'll release an update for us.

 

What is ACE doing now? Well, they've made some interesting decisions such as the "pay to post".  They've stood fast on their position for how the community will act.  They've quit releasing information on their goals for systems.  They've gone after venture funding in order to hire a bigger force in hopes of bringing CF to the community sooner.

 

Not sure where you've been, but they've been steadily releasing information post-KS as they have more information available.

 

...I'd only want to ask this question: "As a crowdfunded game that will continue to seek additional funding from their community through cash shop items such as what Star Citizen and Camelot Unchained have done, do you disagree with the obvious concern of shrinking of the active community on the forums through your 'Pay to Post' strategy?"

 

 

Repeated, non-value added forum activity is not a good indicator of an active community.  There were a number of individuals that were starting to get harsh toward new community members for not reading the FAQ or the massive number of info spread out across the Internet on CF.  The forum change now protects the new members with questions in finding the right answers, while providing those that are interested in CF enough to back the development with forums to further discuss CF features.

 

It was a good change.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Their Vision vs. Implementation.  Todd has mentioned multiple times that what may look good on paper (or the whiteboard) doesn't always translate well in-game.  As they develop their concepts, they have every right to make adjustments in order to "find the fun" points.  Once that is reached, they'll release an update for us.

 
 

 

Not sure where you've been, but they've been steadily releasing information post-KS as they have more information available.

 
 

 

Repeated, non-value added forum activity is not a good indicator of an active community.  There were a number of individuals that were starting to get harsh toward new community members for not reading the FAQ or the massive number of info spread out across the Internet on CF.  The forum change now protects the new members with questions in finding the right answers, while providing those that are interested in CF enough to back the development with forums to further discuss CF features.

 

It was a good change.

You're rambunctious today.  Look at their news updates and tell me what information they've released that we had not already discussed on the forums in the past month?  We're looking at fractions of information, and as I said, much has already been sifted through and deduced before it's "official" introduction.  I'm not upset about it... I understand why, but that doesn't change fact.

 

You've lumped anyone who wasn't a backer into a group that were detrimental to the community.

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