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primal

RIP The Crowdfunder

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Repeated, non-value added forum activity is not a good indicator of an active community.  There were a number of individuals that were starting to get harsh toward new community members for not reading the FAQ or the massive number of info spread out across the Internet on CF.  The forum change now protects the new members with questions in finding the right answers, while providing those that are interested in CF enough to back the development with forums to further discuss CF features.

 

It was a good change.

 

Actually, that had existed since the creation of the FAQ. You'd have repeat threads because green names couldn't be bothered with splicing threads. They could've edited these answers, but if things got too harsh, they would just lock the entire thread.

 

Then you had people like dmbrandon inspiring his twitch followers to come in and bombard a thread demanding dev answers for things already answered on the FAQ. You're going to tell me the forums went backers only because people couldn't read a FAQ? People wanting instant gratification is nothing new. Seeing 100 threads you'd love to participate in but can't isn't helping people read better.

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I think the developers might have chosen to get the game hyped periodically. Play2Crush, Hunger Week, Kickstarter... Those were for me the 3 major hyped periods, where a lot of media attention was brought on the game and a lot of discussions took place.

 

Currently, however, I think it might be beneficial for Crowfall development to not get too much hype and forum activity. This summer, when the game will be presented on Twitch, YouTube, etc. we can expect a lot of benefits to get tons of active people on the forums.

 

Pretty sure the restriction for backers right now has more to do with developers being super busy with the game. It looks like even Pann and Tully are both spending lot of time on website & development. (edit : I meant that they're focusing on the game more than on the forums, not that they're usually lazy  :D)

 

I believe that investors prefer to see forums active to validate that the game they invest in has a large player base and large audience, rather than a forum with only harmonious discussions. Investors may not necessarily read a lot of the messages posted anyway. So the concerns about censored forums to appeal investors may not be founded imo.

Edited by courant101

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I am sure you've convinced yourself that you are fighting the good fight, but I think you should step outside of it all and look at it from another point of view. 

 

VIKINGNAIL 30-March 15 563 46

8.83%

 

And you've convinced yourself that you're a White Knight? Hardly. For an entire week you've led the charts in frequency of posts. You've posted more than anyone else since the forums have been dead (or the creation of slack, whichever).

 

I'm sure you've convinced yourself that you're better than the tr0lls. But 90% of your responses are disagreeing with other posters. Maybe you should look inside the box.

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To me, as a business mind, I'd look at one of my 3 or 4 sources of income as the "Crowd".  The people who see "Crowfall- Badarsse PvP MMO" and decide to come see what is going on on the forums.  They get to choose to read around and maybe create an account to join the discussion and get to know the community and ask questions.

 

But, they only get 30 days access.  I'd just not create an account personally, and I know many would agree.

 

 

You've just lost all of those people as potential investors as they are no longer going to be watching the community NEARLY as close as they would have otherwise.

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I think the developers might have chosen to get the game hyped periodically. Play2Crush, Hunger Week, Kickstarter... Those were for me the 3 major hyped periods, where a lot of media attention was brought on the game and a lot of discussions took place.

 

Currently, however, I think it might be beneficial for Crowfall development to not get too much hype and forum activity. This summer, when the game will be presented on Twitch, YouTube, etc. we can expect a lot of benefits to get tons of active people on the forums.

 

Pretty sure the restriction for backers right now has more to do with developers being super busy with the game. It looks like even Pann and Tully are both spending lot of time on website & development.

 

I believe that investors prefer to see forums active to validate that the game they invest in has a large player base and large audience, rather than a forum with only harmonious discussions. Investors may not necessarily read a lot of the messages posted anyway. So the concerns about forums censored forums to appeal investors may not be the founded imo.

Welcome back Courant101  We have missed you.

 

Sorry to derail.  Continue.   


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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I read the OP but not the thread. I don't have time at the moment.

 

I don't think you see the forest through the trees here. The reason why the community is diminishing is the lack of information and updates coming from ACE. You can only have so many discussions based on Eternal Kingdom design documents. We have nothing on combat. We have nothing on inport/export. We have nothing with win/loss conditions. We don't know how you win or lose a game. We don't know what you can build or how you can build inside a campaign. We don't have closs details/skills.

 

We don't  have what daily acitivites the game will have. We don't have control schemes. We don't have how crafting works outside the basics. 

 

So what is left to discuss? Originally people were discussing the idea of campaigns, the resets, the wins, the EK relationship. All broad ideas and you can only go so much on just a basic concept.

 

Just look at Crowns and Crows as a guideline. We went from discussing the game, to discussing points and threads on the forum.

 

Once ACE nails down content, design, and can show things off I bet you'll see a ton of people back here talking about the game. Why would someone not really invested in this infant, early-as-faq community really care about coming back on a daily schedule? There is only so much to debate. Unless you're super fans like all of us here today, there is nothing here for you right now, and you're just waiting for your Crowfall email update with new info. Once that comes, they'll all come back and talk about stuff. 

 

Honestly, most of us have too much time on our hands.

 

Creating a paywall didn't do it. Because those people have access.

Creating new mods didn't scare people off. And the people it "scared" off were useless to any good debate anyway.

 

Honestly, it's not an issue. There is no game to discuss right now. The forums have devolved into their own meta of bullcrap. You have a subset of people who attack people. You have a subset of people who are "just asking questions". You have a subset of people who spam the thread. Hi eonwe! ;)

 

Honestly what do you expect in this community right now with the so so so so early development state of the game.

 

Look at it from a dev's point of view. They sold a concept. They don't have any details ready for public concumption because they need to code, test and implement them internally before you can even talk about them conceptually with the public. Just look at Sarcan's MMORPG post; it's all based on supposition on a system that was only written down on paper and a whiteboard. All that angst and all the worry over a skill/rune/disc system based on simple prepreprepre-dev design is silly. Devs HATE that. They hate people taking their ideas, wrapping them up in their own bias and spitting it out.

 

NOT only that, they are putting that up on MMORPG.com a highly trafficed site that lends a lot of weight behind those opinions. It's not like he wrote that on the forum or a small personal blog.

 

So everyone needs to take a deep breath and go outside and enjoy the weekend and f'ing relax.

Edited by draegan

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Co-Host of Crowns and Crows Livestream: Every Tuesday 8:30pm EST
Follow me on Twitter: @jdodge80

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I've stayed out of all these topics, but I might as well chime in with a few thoughts:

 

1) This is totally normal. Somewhere early on, somebody mentioned "when you have 100 people posting out 15K, you should look at changing things". Well, that's just not true. For almost all games, a very tiny percentage of the playerbase posts on the forums. This is particularly true when the game is 2 years from release and there are few details about it. Expecting a huge volume of consistent posters at this point is just not going to happen. 

 

2) There is a certain segment of the population, for whom I'm not sure why they even want a game with any game mechanics. It appears they would need only the following to accomplish what they want.

  • An Undmoderated Forum for socksposting
  • An App that calculates how many people you've swayed from these forums to log on at the same time as you.

Because it sure sounds like the game they came from consisted of talking trash on the forum and then logging onto the game to have whichever side had the most players win. I'm not sure why a game is needed to measure this.

 

3) Again. This game is still years away from release. There is just no need for waging forum wars at this point. The vast majority of players that will be in this game come release are not going to be here for years. While there are a handful of cross-game, "gaming club" type guilds following this, the vast majority of Crowfall specific guilds don't even exist yet and won't for quite some time. It's far too early (for me) to look for a guild, or join a guild or start a guild and I'm actively following this game and checking in on the forums daily. 99% of eventual Crowfall players aren't even doing that much.

 

4) Crowdfunding as a whole is going very strong. The Bard's Tale 4 kickstarter just reached over a million in 48 hours. And to circle back to the first point, (about number of posters compared to backers) after inXile kickstarted Wasteland 2 with over 60,000 backers, there were only probably 25-50 regular posters for quite awhile during the early development on their forums. It grew as development got closer and spiked when people were able to play alpha builds.

 

Next year, these forums will be much more active, once people start getting their hands on it and seeing more. As Alpha rolls into beta, new guilds and alliances and rivalries will begin to form and the forums will be more active. At that point, they will need to make a decision on where they want the political discussion to go, but without a game to play, guild politics shouldn't be anything that ACE should worry about supporting. Completely unmoderated discussion will never be allowed here and, that is simply a change in the internet and the world, that people need to get used to. It wasn't like that 15-20 years ago, but now days companies are legally liable for what is posted on their message boards in ways they weren't in the past.

Edited by ColdSlither

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Well, to address the OP, I don't think that CF has gated the boards and shifted the tone of them only in order to make them more palatable to investors.

I also don't think that they are stifling the creation of a thriving community.

 

I do agree that the tone of the board has changed but it's changed several times since I hopped on in February.

 

When I came on board it was mostly SB and Wiz101/Pirate101 folks and it was just after the Carebear wars.  I spent a lot of time asking about the game basics and got my butt handed to me a lot.  However, it was a pretty reasonable group.  Most of the comments were along the lines of "CF is a PvP game, so if you don't like PvP it's not the game for you" and "just get with a guild".  No one actually did much actually attacking and if they did it was more along the lines of defending the dev's vision or reminding folks that it's PvP. There were not a ton of posters but it was still fun.

 

Then the KS started and everyone was flooded with info and we were all hyper crazy about the game.  Lots of back and forth, highs and lows, as new info was released and the PvP folks got disgruntled at the EKs and the squishies got disgruntled at the Dregs only at the start ruleset.  Great conversations and still a fair amount of get good or get gone but the only real attacks/dogpiles were in the Shadowbane forum.  Lots and lots of posts and forum activity.

 

Then the KS ended and the post counts dropped fairly quickly. A lot of folks went into hibernation and waiting mode until Alpha.  There was still a lot of interaction though and while the gap between PvP and Snowflake was still there it was handled pretty decently and the forumbaning was mostly in the Shadowbane forums.  This is when I think the boards started developing a community.  I don't think we had a huge number of posters then either but there was a great feeling on the boards that we were all in the same boat.

 

Then Doc Gonzo got de-modded and honestly that is when the boards changed IMO.  The boards shifted from the gang's all here to us vs. them.  I don't think that Doc as a mod made such a difference that he was the glue that held the boards together but I do think that his downshifting then leaving the boards changed the relationship with the mods and CF itself.  Don't get me wrong - I can respect what Pann is doing - but I think that the shift in how the boards are happened back then.

 

Since then it's tapered off even more to just a small percentage of active posters.  The player attacks are different now and more along the lines of decimating and destroying rather than defending devs or defining the game. Dogpiling became a thing outside the SB forum.  Pulling in outside info from other sources than these boards to "incriminate" players started happening. I know that I post a lot less simply because it's not worth the trouble to do so/not worth making myself a target unless I have something to say that I think strongly about. 

 

I don't see the change in the boards as a result of the paywall, or being caused by a need for additional funding.  We have a huge amount of control on these boards and if you think there should be more posts and activity here then look no further than the players.

Edited by oridi

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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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This will be the low point for forum activity - as others have said, there has been virtually no content released for some time and that's unlikely to change until pre alpha.  Also, it's the beginning of summer and some people have lives outside of posting on a forum for a game that does not yet exist.  There is literally nothing left to talk about when you consider the amount of new information we have available to us.  At this point it's just so much easier to listen to C&C every week and skim the biweekly updates then come on here and argue with people over the same topics which have been beat to death over the past few months.  The only way to entertain yourself on the forums these days is tr0ll and be a d1ck - something that is fun but eventually losers it luster, especially considering the lack of targets.  

 

Don't worry, the community will be reignited once pre alpha launches and we have meaningful content to discuss and/or tr0ll (if that's what you're in to).  

Edited by Abel

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i love how everyone interprets this thread as plight of the tr0lls.

 

I love the tr0lls - some of you guys are probably my favorite posters on these forums.....that being said, that interpretation is hard to argue with.  I would amend you post to "plight of the tr0lls and/or sb'ers though"

Edited by Abel

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I love the tr0lls - some of you guys are probably my favorite posters on these forums.....that being said, that interpretation is hard to argue with.  I would amend you post to "plight of the tr0lls and/or sb'ers though"

 

I hide in slack most of the time. So, my tin foil hat is off most of the time.

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i love how everyone interprets this thread as plight of the tr0lls.

That's how you might see it sure. Most of what I see is people explaining that its natural for ebbs and flows of hype and activity during the dev cycle. Its fact it happens.

 

Your little one line snarky jabs don't really help matters either. You and others cry about the community being ruined by this that or the other thing that's the flavor of the day but fail to realize the community is what you ,we , I make of it. Be rude, condescending and dismissive to people and that's what you get.

Edited by pang

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That's how you might see it sure. Most of what I see is people explaining that its natural for ebbs and flows of hype and activity during the dev cycle. Its fact it happens.

 

Your little one line snarky jabs don't really help matters either. You and others cry about the community being ruined by this that or the other thing that's the flavor of the day but fail to realize the community is what you ,we , I make of it. Be rude, condescending and dismissive to people and that's what you get.

 

What have you done to help? For every snarky jab I make, there's you, VN, new people, double digit posters, and a few other fan bois on my nuts letting me know how you feel. At this point, the anti-tr0lls are the tr0lls.

 

For every "mods suck" post, there's 3 attacks letting us know that we're "rude, condescending, and dismissive". Let me know when you've googled condescending.

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What have you done to help? For every snarky jab I make, there's you, VN, new people, double digit posters, and a few other fan bois on my nuts letting me know how you feel. At this point, the anti-tr0lls are the tr0lls.

 

For every "mods suck" post, there's 3 attacks letting us know that we're "rude, condescending, and dismissive". Let me know when you've googled condescending.

All I know is there aren't constantly threads being made complaining about how toxic the forums are, but there are constantly threads being made by people upset that they have no room to be toxic.  The same people, over and over...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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What have you done to help? For every snarky jab I make, there's you, VN, new people, double digit posters, and a few other fan bois on my nuts letting me know how you feel. At this point, the anti-tr0lls are the tr0lls.

 

For every "mods suck" post, there's 3 attacks letting us know that we're "rude, condescending, and dismissive". Let me know when you've googled condescending.

Post history is publicly viewable. Feel free to check.

 

In the meantime playing victim and playing the martyr doesn't help anything either. When you figure out what your cause is that you keep crusading about let us know.

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