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Jah

Misgivings about Eternal Kigdoms

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This thread is intended as an appropriate place to constructively discuss disinterest in, disdain for, or misgivings about the Eternal Kingdoms.
 
For me, the Eternal Kingdoms seem like an odd element to add to a Play to Crush game.  The people who want risk and reward, conflict with consequences, and adrenaline-pumping immersion aren't exactly begging for safezone trophy cases to hang out in.
 
In games like Shadowbane, the few safezones that existed felt like a necessary evil.  In Ultima, the introduction of Trammel was widely hated by the PvP crowd.  Generally, safezones get in the way of immersing yourself in the gritty struggle for survival that people love about hardcore PvP MMORPGs.
 
Adding Play to Crush elements to the Eternal Kingdoms was my first instinct, but as many have pointed out, that would just make them compete with Campaigns.  We'll need people playing the campaigns, so why would we try to encourage people to spend time eleswhere?
 
Thematicly, I don't get why we will build huge fortifications in a realm that cannot be attacked.  What is the point of having thick walls, battlements, portculis, et cetera, for a place that is essentially a magical, peaceful, paradise?  If we are going to spend resources on decorations in such a place, wouldn't it make more sense to make gardens full of topiaries than militarized architecture?  What role do these worlds play in the grand scheme of things, the eternal War of the Gods?
 
What are your misgivings about Eternal Kingdoms?

 

 

 

Good thread Jah, appreciate it greatly.

 

 

I think the biggest reason why me personally is against the EK is the fact that it will become a place for people to stay away from campaigns. The campaigns have since the Kickstarter been said to be the main game, and we were told the EK was a sort of lobby, a place to connect with friends in between campaigns.

 

But it has evolved to become much more. People want more and more stuff in the EK and the focus on the EK from ACE's side has been increasing since the KS.

 

 

Play2Crush was the main reason I came to Crowfall, and I dont want the game to turn into a quick cashgrab by selling EK items and making kingdoms the priority.

 

 

My main dislike for the EK's ( and interpret this as how they will turn out based on what ppl are wanting/asking for ) is that they appear to now be more than a "lobby" of sorts as was originally presented.   I guess it is ACE trying to incorporate the different aspects of different games and gamers and what attracts them to the play style they choose.  My concern is that the EK's will eventually become THE game and the core , the CW's will eventually have a lower and lower pop.  Also, those players , the one's that like to play with no risk.  They are a demanding group.    Give them a few castles. A few Citadels and they will want more and more and more.  I can see packs of furniture being able to be purchased.  Holiday themes all for the small price of $x.xx.   More and more time will be taken to provide the things that can bring in the most money ( because this is business , right? ) At what point does the EK become the game and PvP become secondary?  Like every other game.   Thought it was "niche".  Guess it isn't anymore.  

 

I don't mind housing in games, hell I have spent hundreds on it in "other" games.  I just don't think it belongs here in CF as it was originally marketed.  

 

Firstly I do not hate or like EK's I am neutral in that point, however I would say that I think people are forgetting one simple fact.  One cannot simple hang out in their dirt box all day playing house because one will need the resources and materials the CW offers...a risk/reward system people remember?  If you do not risk anything you do not gain anything and your EK will be some backwater dust bowl podunk hamlet that no one will visit, do business in, nor ally with.  The taxes will erode away your coin, you will be unable to craft any wares to use or sell, and in the end you will become a fearful shut in, afraid to attempt a CW with no clan support or membership in whatever clan you hold to because people do not follow cowards, or clans that don't put the work in.  Pride and respect puts a clan into the fight, and while I too believe EKs to be somewhat lame, at the same time I also believe every clan needs a rally point, and something which they can display as proof to their enemies and allies that they deserve that respect.


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"They are two independent game loops, built from the same base, with a simple interface layer (character transfer and import/export of items and materials) connecting them. "

 

"This does mean that a player could fill a sprawling (cosmetically impressive) kingdom day one, but it wouldn't really do anything.  And they would be severly limited in their ability to upgrade the buildings to MAKE the land do anything, without materials from the Campaign Worlds.  I'm not sure why anyone would do that, but it's certainly possible."

 

If one was not concerned about the shrines etc to house thralls and blessings, the it will be possible to have an Eternal Kingdom as simply housing.  It wouldn't be a dust bowl, just not top tier.  

 

"Cosmetically Impressive" will be enough for some and I don't think crafting will have anything to be with "location" as crafters (as least the braver ones) will be "crafting" in the CW's and have the same ability in the EK.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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"They are two independent game loops, built from the same base, with a simple interface layer (character transfer and import/export of items and materials) connecting them. "

 

"This does mean that a player could fill a sprawling (cosmetically impressive) kingdom day one, but it wouldn't really do anything.  And they would be severly limited in their ability to upgrade the buildings to MAKE the land do anything, without materials from the Campaign Worlds.  I'm not sure why anyone would do that, but it's certainly possible."

 

If one was not concerned about the shrines etc to house thralls and blessings, the it will be possible to have an Eternal Kingdom as simply housing.  It wouldn't be a dust bowl, just not top tier.  

 

"Cosmetically Impressive" will be enough for some and I don't think crafting will have anything to be with "location" as crafters (as least the braver ones) will be "crafting" in the CW's and have the same ability in the EK.

 

To reiterate the point, materials and resources can only be found in CW this will force people to leave EK and play the game, thus the EK's are not worthy of this much discussion because whether you hate them or not it is irrelevant.


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Firstly I do not hate or like EK's I am neutral in that point, however I would say that I think people are forgetting one simple fact.  One cannot simple hang out in their dirt box all day playing house because one will need the resources and materials the CW offers...a risk/reward system people remember?  If you do not risk anything you do not gain anything and your EK will be some backwater dust bowl podunk hamlet that no one will visit, do business in, nor ally with.  The taxes will erode away your coin, you will be unable to craft any wares to use or sell, and in the end you will become a fearful shut in, afraid to attempt a CW with no clan support or membership in whatever clan you hold to because people do not follow cowards, or clans that don't put the work in.  Pride and respect puts a clan into the fight, and while I too believe EKs to be somewhat lame, at the same time I also believe every clan needs a rally point, and something which they can display as proof to their enemies and allies that they deserve that respect.

Well, once the game launches, I guess then and only then will we know how popular EK's will be. As a lot of us have known and continue to point out. EK's will be useless if they aren't supported by CW's. So don't worry too much about EK's becoming a standalone product of Crowfall. I thoroughly enjoy the concept of EK's but I also don't want them to become easy mode. I know for a fact I will have a ton of fun helping build up my guilds Kingdom. While Crowfall isn't necessarily a gear based game, even a few points extra from well crafted gear might just be enough to take down a larger sized enemy group. Of course skill and tactics will be necessary, just like they were in Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot and similar games. The EK's will have a minimal role in the CW's but a huge role in relaxing and taking a break.

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While Crowfall isn't necessarily a gear based game, even a few points extra from well crafted gear might just be enough to take down a larger sized enemy group.

Can I ask how that statement is related to the EK's?  TIA


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Can I ask how that statement is related to the EK's?  TIA

 

Because having access to ALL resources in the CW is very unlikely. Thus, your best gear will most likely be the gear you brought with you into the CW from your EK crafting. I certainly can't imagine everyone having access to ALL resources in a CW unless you happen to be dominating the campaign. However, we know very little about anything in terms of crafting, so most of us can only speculate.

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Because having access to ALL resources in the CW is very unlikely. Thus, your best gear will most likely be the gear you brought with you into the CW from your EK crafting. I certainly can't imagine everyone having access to ALL resources in a CW unless you happen to be dominating the campaign. However, we know very little about anything in terms of crafting, so most of us can only speculate.

What you are saying could be true, a couple years down the road and dependent on which campaigns you join.   When I talk about CF, I talk launch and the first 6 to 12 months.  In that time frame, the very best crafters will have to be in the campaigns, creating gear for their guild, repairing equipment, etc.  I can see small centers of commerce springing up w.in the CW's as that is where the resources will be.  They won't have to worry about getting them back to the EK.  If you play the Dregs ( where the very best resources are), then chances are good you have come into the CW with nothing to very little ( import rules)  and will be accumulating your stuffz there.  Whether you are dominating or not in a campaign will have less to do with availability as you are right in the same place the resources are.   If you want your gear to be "better" have it made there, use it there, have it repaired there.  Why chance or worry about what you can export especially if you don't appear to be doing well.  1 to 3 months is a long time, game wise.  Plenty of time to get that economy game going IN the campaign worlds.  

Edited by ellie

Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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How about you not worry about what other people do.

It affects me. It affects everyone who reads the thread. Your unwillingness to edit quotes pushes the burden of dealing with the issue from you, where it properly resides, to everyone who reads. It's lazy, it's selfish, and it's inconsiderate.

 

If you think being lazy, selfish, and inconsiderate is a good way to convince others to take your arguments seriously, by all means, proceed apace.


I mean, I'm assuming "fluffer" is just another pjorative term for carebears, whales, etc. Of course, I could be incorrect, but I doubt it.

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Well, since you're singling me out as the only one who doesn't know how crafting works in this game, by all means fill us in Freeze. I'm sure we'd all love to hear your expert opinion on the matter.

Doesn't take an expert to know that most crafting and most meaningful crafting will be done inside the CWs. That's where it'll be needed the most. Certain CWs you won't even be able to bring in gear. Some you will be able to bring in gear but gear in all CWs is subject to loss due to decay and being looted when we die. We'll need to be replacing that gear constantly throughout the lifespan of the CW. So yes the majority of crafting and by default the economy will take place within the CWs. EK will play its part no doubt but make no mistake the real heart of the game is in fact played within the CWs.

Edited by pang

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Not directed at anyone, but I don't understand the hate for EK's.  I'm glad to have a separate gameplay option where you can build your own setup and take a break from PvP for a bit.  The start and restart of CW's will require something more permanent over time.  Also variety was one of the best things about SWG.  It's an overall plus without many, if any, minuses.  You will bring a couple, if any, things from the EK into the CW worlds and have to build everything up inside there (fortifications, weapons, armor, etc.).  There will be more of a need for good crafters inside the CW.  

 

The people that only want to play in the EK likely wouldn't play the game at all if not for the option to do that.  We need a strong player base for this game to continue and expand.   Another positive for this option.   The EK may also be a way for PvE folks to start the game, grow to love it, and then slowly branch into PvP as they meet people.  They will have the option to use cash to buy things for the EK rather than rely on the CW, but that cash goes into development.  Those types of players wouldn't be fun to PvP against anyway, as they aren't willing participants.  I'm here to fight the best.  That is what I'm looking forward to as far as PvP. 

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I've answered to CW for so long that hearing it used for campaign world is really weird XD

 

I like the EK's.  If I had a criticism for them, it would be that they are meaningless.  Give them cosmetic awesomeness you can only get from the CW's and I'll be super happy.

 

They are a trophy case, perhaps for most, however, I think that is just fine.  Expand on that.  Give a tournament won only guild hall of epicness, each season.  Let people know your legacy through your EK :) that sounds pretty spiffy to me.  

 

People are worried they'll release couches etc?  Make those legendary couches you can only get in the dregs.  Just sayin'.  Reward the CW's with the EK stuffs. They don't all have to be monetary.  Status is huge, especially in a game with political power.  Valor implied they are not meaningful and should not be, but I disagree.  They are meaningful for networking, for politics, for playing a different game within the game, that can VERY MUCH impact a campaign.  The plotting will happen in the EK's and will throw entire campaign worlds.

 

I like them.  I want the campaigns to shape them, and not the other way around.


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í blóði er hefnd kvöl er ótta dýrð sorg ríkir

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I've answered to CW for so long that hearing it used for campaign world is really weird XD

 

I like the EK's.  If I had a criticism for them, it would be that they are meaningless.  Give them cosmetic awesomeness you can only get from the CW's and I'll be super happy.

 

They are a trophy case, perhaps for most, however, I think that is just fine.  Expand on that.  Give a tournament won only guild hall of epicness, each season.  Let people know your legacy through your EK :) that sounds pretty spiffy to me.  

 

People are worried they'll release couches etc?  Make those legendary couches you can only get in the dregs.  Just sayin'.  Reward the CW's with the EK stuffs. They don't all have to be monetary.  Status is huge, especially in a game with political power.  Valor implied they are not meaningful and should not be, but I disagree.  They are meaningful for networking, for politics, for playing a different game within the game, that can VERY MUCH impact a campaign.  The plotting will happen in the EK's and will throw entire campaign worlds.

 

I like them.  I want the campaigns to shape them, and not the other way around.

That's how it already works pretty much.

 

You need CW resources to build up your EK. The trophy's we win will be displayed in our EK. The winner of the tournament gets a Dragon Throne which is displayed in our EKs. You also have relics that are gotten from the CWs that are displayed in your EK and give you small buffs during CWs.

Edited by pang

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What role do these worlds play in the grand scheme of things, the eternal War of the Gods?

 

This may have been addressed already, but for this specific question, the EK are where you bring the souls you reaped in the dying worlds. That's why we're out there. To harvest souls for the gods. Where do you store what you've reaped? Think of the EK as the silo for your thralls.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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That's how it already works pretty much.

 

You need CW resources to build up your EK. The trophy's we win will be displayed in our EK. The winner of the tournament gets a Dragon Throne which is displayed in our EKs. You also have relics that are gotten from the CWs that are displayed in your EK and give you small buffs during CWs.

 

I have admittedly been away for a while attending to other matters in other games, and so I apologize if I have missed some critical updates.

 

Tell me more about this dragon throne?  (link to it?)  That sounds pretty much amazing to me.

 

I was aware of the relics and those small buffs etc.  They seem to be easy enough to come by though, and the power curve is shallow enough they won't be game breaking.

 

*Edit* also, I was aware of some cosmetic impact, such as resources only coming from campaign worlds to build them etc.  Seriously though, what's this dragon throne?  I want one. XD

Edited by Corpsewake

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í blóði er hefnd kvöl er ótta dýrð sorg ríkir

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I have admittedly been away for a while attending to other matters in other games, and so I apologize if I have missed some critical updates.

 

Tell me more about this dragon throne?  (link to it?)  That sounds pretty much amazing to me.

 

I was aware of the relics and those small buffs etc.  They seem to be easy enough to come by though, and the power curve is shallow enough they won't be game breaking.

 

*Edit* also, I was aware of some cosmetic impact, such as resources only coming from campaign worlds to build them etc.  Seriously though, what's this dragon throne?  I want one. XD

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo/posts/1176510

 

Tournaments! We will add a single-elimination Tournament ladder for guilds to compete on a annual (or bi-annual) basis. Guilds will have to win a Campaign to qualify, at which point they will be pitted against each other in a single elimination, winner-take-all Tournament to take home the Dragon Throne -- an Artifact which benefits everyone in the Kingdom -- and which shows, without question, which Guild is the best.

 

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