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Roxfall

What I learned from playing Tera

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This wall of text comes with a disclaimer: there's a TL;DR at the bottom. You can skip to it and get the cliffnotes.

 

There were some threads here about combat this and combat that and how people hate Wildstar telegraphs and how people love Wildstar telegraphs and how people hate each other in principle. And then a couple times Tera combat was mentioned.

 

Having never played Tera, I decided I need to educate myself, so I downloaded and played it this past weekend solely based on the mentions in this here forum! Besides, this game has elves, swords and pvp (3 out of 3 in my personal criteria for game rating), therefore it must be good!

 

What did I learn? Nothing... no, I'm kidding. I actually have some insights.

 

To be fair, I played a bunch of characters only to level 10 (go through the tutorial area, beat on mobs, unlock some key abilities). I've played slayer, mystic, priest and warrior. 

 

Out of the bunch the only one I actually liked was the warrior. Why? Because the warrior had the fastest attack animations. As it turns out, Tera locks your characters feet in place when you attack until the animation is complete. Coming from WoW, Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar, that was physically painful. Oh, such pain, oh such misery and suffering. 

 

I know of one other mmo that does this: Neverwinter. 

 

A lot of players don't expect this, we are "spoiled" if you will, by other games that allow you free or limited movement while casting (at least basic attacks), and if you build and balance your combat system around players standing still while attacking, that will turn off a lot of people. Like me. So that was a downer.

 

What was fun about Tera combat then? Aiming. Some projectiles are faster than others, and there are limited ground telegraphs, and hey, if the healer has to actually land the heals on the tank, that means that even the healer gets to play the game. As opposed to sitting in the corner and clicking on spreadsheets all day. By spreadsheets I mean the raid addons that look like spreadsheets. Yeah, yeah, Crowfall is not a PVE raid game, and there aren't any dedicated healers planned - I know - I'm just saying that aiming and dodging is fun - as long as your latency and server load are merciful.

 

The more abilities require aiming, the more engaged your players will be. Now, some people don't want to be engaged in that way - but Crowfall is primarily a pvp game so the target audience here is more action-oriented.

 

The reason why I didn't play Tera up to this point actually has to do with the high heels. High heels are not a victimless crime! Just because I'm playing a guy with normal sized heels over here does not mean that I'm immune to aneurysms from watching everyone else run around and jump, jump, jump in high heels everywhere. Since I was playing throw-away characters, I rolled a couple of females and yeah, the experience was cringe worthy. I could get used to impractical armor that looks like a wardrobe malfunction in progress with wedgies from hell (it's really amazing how quickly an ass crack can grow on you), but when that girl jumped off a cliff with a featherfall effect and landed on her heels, that made me twitch. I'm still twitching thinking about it. Ouch. The ankles!

 

Also, lancer without a horse. In high heels. Just watching that made my suspense of disbelief fall over crying. Or laughing. I forget. It's a repressed memory. I don't want to talk about it.

 

So anyway, I liked Wildstar combat a lot more. The telegraphs were a little noisy, but I've never had as much fun healing a pvp team with a spellslinger healer as I did in Wildstar. I know spellslingers aren't the best healers in the meta game (because they actually have to aim their heals!), but I had fun while it lasted. 

 

Cheers!

 

TL;DR:

1. Movement locks based on attack animations are bad for you, your health, your business, your industry and your planet. They're only tolerable when the attacks themselves are cartoonishly snappy and responsive (under 0.3 seconds or less).

2. Aiming is fun (even healing spells - especially healing spells). Dodging is fun. Telegraphs in moderation are fun.

3. High heels break immersion faster than you can say 'asian grind fest', especially when the character falls, jumps, runs or does anything related to action combat.

4. Sexy clothes are fun. Sexy clothes on childlike models are a known cancerogen.

5. This is the internet. Every word everyone says is true. And also, forever.


Greatswords for Frostweavers 2015! For great justice! And swords.

P.S. I like swords.

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I played tera from cb1 and for a very long time, but I no longer do. 3/4 level 65s, rest of the classes at 60, did everything in the game, etc.

 

That animation lock is absolutely awful, it really is. The thing is, when you are low level you have very little of the attack (animation) speed stat, but when you are max level you get it on most gear. People level up with 0-8% attack speed bonus from their gear, then at 65 they have 20%+, sometimes 30%+. It makes a HUGE difference. I would even recommend watching some max level of whichever class, slayer might be the best at showing the difference. At max level, with appropriate gear, you don't feel the animation locks pretty much at all. There are a few skills, all classes combined that is, that you feel it, but that's it. I've actually written on the tera forums before that if BHS/EME would increase base attack speed, especially at low levels, their problem of losing a lot of people in the first 20 levels would all but cease.

 

Really, the attack speed stat is maybe the most important in the game.

 

Not the greatest, but it's a side-by-side berserker attack speed comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8kz-qEr_Hw

Edited by Sciocco

gCWxS8u.jpg

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See I knew I was missing the big picture but I didn't want to slog through the game for a week or more to discover what the end game is like.


Greatswords for Frostweavers 2015! For great justice! And swords.

P.S. I like swords.

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When you leave the starting island the mobs no longer have telegraphs.  Unless you played to 20, you'd never know that.  Mystics have targeted heals. With my Mystics I have to move the reticle over 1-3 targets to heal them. Cleanse worked the same way.

 

It takes a while to get use to the lock in place combat.  Again, playing to 10 didn't showcase that to much.

 

I'd like to see Tera setup that every ability allows movement.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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See I knew I was missing the big picture but I didn't want to slog through the game for a week or more to discover what the end game is like.

 

Honestly, I don't think the game is worth playing to max level and attempting to even get half decent gear at this point.


gCWxS8u.jpg

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You also have to understand the need for said animationlock.

Tera has been praised for having a flashy type combat, well animated and looks flawless when done right.. But you have to lock a character into an animation for this to actually work.

 

In other actionbased mmos like GW2, the combat is more simplistic when you look at the animations, why? Because they want you to move around more, so to be able to do that the animations are simple but effective.

 

So it all depends on how you want the game to look. Do you want flashy well done animations that looks incredible, or do you want simple, effective and short animations that makes the combat flow better.

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So it all depends on how you want the game to look. Do you want flashy well done animations that looks incredible, or do you want simple, effective and short animations that makes the combat flow better.

 

Definitely the second one. User experience is king. At least, for me. Because it's my experience, as the player, and not some guy watching a video I made on youtube.


Greatswords for Frostweavers 2015! For great justice! And swords.

P.S. I like swords.

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I played TERA from CB-1 up until the end of the summer 2012 and basically nolifed it. I loved the hell out of it, the only MMO I'd played that much since early WoW days. I could never, ever go back to a tab-targetting system, there is no comparison in terms of how engaging I find it.

 

Nexus basically killed it for me, though. In the end, TERA was 100% about gear, and without the time or willingness to nolife the game (especially on their schedule) post-summer I lost interest pretty quick.

 

There really isn't much to say beyond that. The only lessons I take from TERA are "ACTION COMBAT GOOD" and "DAILIES AND GRIND-FOCUSEDNESS BAD", which wasn't really something I needed to learn in the first place.

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I played TERA from CB-1 up until the end of the summer 2012 and basically nolifed it. I loved the hell out of it, the only MMO I'd played that much since early WoW days. I could never, ever go back to a tab-targetting system, there is no comparison in terms of how engaging I find it.

 

Nexus basically killed it for me, though. In the end, TERA was 100% about gear, and without the time or willingness to nolife the game (especially on their schedule) post-summer I lost interest pretty quick.

 

There really isn't much to say beyond that. The only lessons I take from TERA are "ACTION COMBAT GOOD" and "DAILIES AND GRIND-FOCUSEDNESS BAD", which wasn't really something I needed to learn in the first place.

 

Dam, you are like my twin. What server did you play on? I went from Jagged Coast to Valley of Titans sometime in July I guess.


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Dam, you are like my twin. What server did you play on? I went from Jagged Coast to Valley of Titans sometime in July I guess.

 

I played on VoT from beta until I quit, although I'm pretty sure VoT stopped being called VoT at some point (I don't really remember when that was!).

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I played on VoT from beta until I quit, although I'm pretty sure VoT stopped being called VoT at some point (I don't really remember when that was!).

 

Early september (I think) 2012 they merged all four pvp servers together. I guess you might remember Man Up, huh...

 

We getting off-topic a bit though...


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This wall of text comes with a disclaimer: there's a TL;DR at the bottom. You can skip to it and get the cliffnotes.

 

There were some threads here about combat this and combat that and how people hate Wildstar telegraphs and how people love Wildstar telegraphs and how people hate each other in principle. And then a couple times Tera combat was mentioned.

 

Having never played Tera, I decided I need to educate myself, so I downloaded and played it this past weekend solely based on the mentions in this here forum! Besides, this game has elves, swords and pvp (3 out of 3 in my personal criteria for game rating), therefore it must be good!

 

What did I learn? Nothing... no, I'm kidding. I actually have some insights.

 

To be fair, I played a bunch of characters only to level 10 (go through the tutorial area, beat on mobs, unlock some key abilities). I've played slayer, mystic, priest and warrior. 

 

Out of the bunch the only one I actually liked was the warrior. Why? Because the warrior had the fastest attack animations. As it turns out, Tera locks your characters feet in place when you attack until the animation is complete. Coming from WoW, Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar, that was physically painful. Oh, such pain, oh such misery and suffering. 

 

I know of one other mmo that does this: Neverwinter. 

 

A lot of players don't expect this, we are "spoiled" if you will, by other games that allow you free or limited movement while casting (at least basic attacks), and if you build and balance your combat system around players standing still while attacking, that will turn off a lot of people. Like me. So that was a downer.

 

What was fun about Tera combat then? Aiming. Some projectiles are faster than others, and there are limited ground telegraphs, and hey, if the healer has to actually land the heals on the tank, that means that even the healer gets to play the game. As opposed to sitting in the corner and clicking on spreadsheets all day. By spreadsheets I mean the raid addons that look like spreadsheets. Yeah, yeah, Crowfall is not a PVE raid game, and there aren't any dedicated healers planned - I know - I'm just saying that aiming and dodging is fun - as long as your latency and server load are merciful.

 

The more abilities require aiming, the more engaged your players will be. Now, some people don't want to be engaged in that way - but Crowfall is primarily a pvp game so the target audience here is more action-oriented.

 

The reason why I didn't play Tera up to this point actually has to do with the high heels. High heels are not a victimless crime! Just because I'm playing a guy with normal sized heels over here does not mean that I'm immune to aneurysms from watching everyone else run around and jump, jump, jump in high heels everywhere. Since I was playing throw-away characters, I rolled a couple of females and yeah, the experience was cringe worthy. I could get used to impractical armor that looks like a wardrobe malfunction in progress with wedgies from hell (it's really amazing how quickly an bottom crack can grow on you), but when that girl jumped off a cliff with a featherfall effect and landed on her heels, that made me twitch. I'm still twitching thinking about it. Ouch. The ankles!

 

Also, lancer without a horse. In high heels. Just watching that made my suspense of disbelief fall over crying. Or laughing. I forget. It's a repressed memory. I don't want to talk about it.

 

So anyway, I liked Wildstar combat a lot more. The telegraphs were a little noisy, but I've never had as much fun healing a pvp team with a spellslinger healer as I did in Wildstar. I know spellslingers aren't the best healers in the meta game (because they actually have to aim their heals!), but I had fun while it lasted. 

 

Cheers!

 

TL;DR:

1. Movement locks based on attack animations are bad for you, your health, your business, your industry and your planet. They're only tolerable when the attacks themselves are cartoonishly snappy and responsive (under 0.3 seconds or less).

2. Aiming is fun (even healing spells - especially healing spells). Dodging is fun. Telegraphs in moderation are fun.

3. High heels break immersion faster than you can say 'asian grind fest', especially when the character falls, jumps, runs or does anything related to action combat.

4. Sexy clothes are fun. Sexy clothes on childlike models are a known cancerogen.

5. This is the internet. Every word everyone says is true. And also, forever.

High heel prejudice has already been addressed... It should not break immersion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc17H68IKMs

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I still don't agree with the general consensus that telegraphs are bad.

 

I think it just takes some iteration and if you don't like them they'll at least be something you wouldn't mind.

 

 

That being said, I still like the positioning game, and I think movement locks turn something that was randomly running-clipping and running through folks laggily into a bit more of a smarter slower game that probably works better with lag.

 

Dunno.

 

Just a gut check.

 

I think its an interesting space to explore for action combat.

Edited by Zomnivore

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I still don't agree with the general consensus that telegraphs are bad.

 

I think it just takes some iteration and if you don't like them they'll at least be something you wouldn't mind.

 

I think TERA's approach to telegraphs was actually fine. The average attack wasn't telegraphed, but dangerous boss attacks and some of the more dangerous PvP attacks "basically" were (in various different ways). That's not really a bad system.

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I like the idea of no telegraphs because of ranged attacks.

 

You could be sitting on a rock then out of no where you see a red telegraph behind you. Well you know someone is attacking you.

 

You could be sitting on a rock then out of no where you're 5% HP. You know you were attacked, but from where??


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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Animation lock is not bad if the skills are instant cast.  My problem comes with long cast sequences.  I been dabbling with echo of souls recently.  The only ranged class I could stomach was the archer.  the skill were all instant cast (attack) with cool downs on the back end.  There was animation lock but the archer class was fast fun and furious.  If they do animation lock they need to make the game flow well,  Long cast times that lock you down are evil and boring and just plain suck.

 

here is a link to the archer in EOS.  EOS is tab target which kinda sucks though.  But imagine fast fun and furious game play with reticle targeting...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_r4IX4QWS4

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I prefer animation locks. It makes the combat feel like it has some weight and makes people commit to an attack instead of the floaty style of melee you see in WoW, Chivalry or GW2 where you can be swinging a sword bigger than you are and change your movement from a full charge to instantly running backward. It adds another layer of skill and intelligence to a fight that other games just don't have. Animation locks also remove the stupid circle strafing dance as people run around each other smacking each other with wet tampons while trying to get in back hits (Darkfall and WAR were especially bad about this).

 

I'm hoping Crowfall is much closer to Tera and Darksouls than GW2 and Chivalry. It's simply a more fun, engaging and skillful style of combat.


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I still don't agree with the general consensus that telegraphs are bad.

 

I think it just takes some iteration and if you don't like them they'll at least be something you wouldn't mind.

 

 

That being said, I still like the positioning game, and I think movement locks turn something that was randomly running-clipping and running through folks laggily into a bit more of a smarter slower game that probably works better with lag.

 

Dunno.

 

Just a gut check.

 

I think its an interesting space to explore for action combat.

 

Telegraphs are only bad when you force everyone to see / use them, and the screen is absolutely saturated with hogwash.

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