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saludeen

Copy Dragons Nest combat.

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Not in years. I remember it as being a simplistic button masher lacking in any true depth. Not something I would ever cite as a combat system to be exemplified.

 

It was better than tab-targeting but I don't remember the fights being nearly as engaging or skillful as the ones I enjoyed in games like Freelancer or DFO.

 

There's a fairly expansive pro scene that really shows how high the skill cap is in that game. DFO is juggle heavy too, especially if you're playing a class like rogue.

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DFO didn't have classes bud, and if you are talking UW, then first of classes can be mixed, second off, there isn't a rogue class.

 

There was a bit of knockback in DFO but it didn't render you helpless and you could not juggle someone until dead period. 

 

Point to me where someone gets completely wrecked while completely helpless anywhere in this vid or any other DFO PvP Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAbjIxSzwc

Edited by Andius

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Y'know, let's not have Crowfall copy anything and just let the team make a system they feel fits the sort of game they're aiming for [Meaning don't try to throw systems that worked in one particular game into a different game]. I'd prefer something new, which is what I assume most people here signed on for.

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I've played Dragon's nest. Its combat makes wonderful PvE gameplay.

 

Thing is...Crowfall isn't PvE.

 

I only watched a few mins in that video, and kinda skipping though. Probably not the best one to show, that was a ton of CC and juggling (also a crap ton of health). sure you were having fun killing the player, but I bet if you were on the other side, getting your butt kicked and nothing you could do, I doubt you would be saying that same jingle. 


MMOs I've Played:

WoW (up to LichKing) - GW2 - FFXIV (Beta) - ESO (Beta)  - Wildstar - 

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Being able to juggle someone I would say is not fun. That doesn't require thinking.... that only requires repeating the same combos so you lock down an opponent so they cant fight back. Poor Design. That's boring for intelligent players and boring for the victim of the endless combo.

 

Soft CC, low RNG elements, twitch combat, and the ability for a skills matters. Learning a combo and perfecting the button mashing isn't skill.

 

Crowfall is going to focus on medium-large scale combat involving a lot of tactics. Juggling wont work with that.

 

People are not forced to play one game... if you enjoy juggling then go play a fighter game on the side.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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Dragon nest has by far the best pvp combat of any mmorpg (though calling it an mmorpg is a stretch)...

That s your opinion. Not a fact. From the video the OP posted... it seems very boring. Like on par with tab targeting boring. Which is my opinion.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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That s your opinion. Not a fact. From the video the OP posted... it seems very boring. Like on par with tab targeting boring. Which is my opinion.

Yea , good pvpers generally have certain opinions... i think their opinions count the most when it comes to pvp. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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My god you bait so much its unreal.

That's not a bait though... i respect good pvper opinions and conclusions the most... it's sorta like that example JTC gave regarding gameplay... if someone puts themself in a bunch of situations that aren't good for them, it's not necessarily a problem with the game or them being underpowered, maybe they are just a bad player.  That bad player also has an opinion, but is it really correct, or realistic, or accurate?  No....

 

People that have proven they are proficient in games have a much more valuable opinion in my opinion.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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That's not a bait though... i respect good pvper opinions and conclusions the most... it's sorta like that example JTC gave regarding gameplay... if someone puts themself in a bunch of situations that aren't good for them, it's not necessarily a problem with the game or them being underpowered, maybe they are just a bad player.  That bad player also has an opinion, but is it really correct, or realistic, or accurate?  No....

 

People that have proven they are proficient in games have a much more valuable opinion in my opinion.

it truly is a bait since you just said that you are a good pvper therefore your opinion is correct and I am a bad pvper because I don't agree with you. Like how pompous can you be? You really either need to get over yourself or start thinking not on such a basic level.

Edited by Vitalized

PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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it truly is a bait since you just said that you are a good pvper there for your opinion is correct and I am a bad pvper because I don't agree with you. Like how pompous can you be? You really either need to get over yourself or start thinking not on such a basic level.

This is going to be a hardcore pvp game... all that matters is proficiency to me. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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This is going to be a hardcore pvp game... all that matters is proficiency to me.

 

The proof that you're a "good pvper" remains to be seen. Your word means jack in regards to that. We should get a beer sometime. Ever in jersey?

 

EDIT: FPS =/= MMO pvp, sorry. The fact that you might be ranked 1st in CS:GO, which you aren't, means hooligan to me and gives you absolutely zero credibility regarding pvp. If you play these games for 20 years you have no choice but to gain experience. MMORPG experience. This MOBA fad BS is a niche, and if you want to hang your hat on it, then stick to it.

Edited by caledon

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The proof that you're a "good pvper" remains to be seen. Your word means jack in regards to that. We should get a beer sometime. Ever in jersey?

 

EDIT: FPS =/= MMO pvp, sorry. The fact that you might be ranked 1st in CS:GO, which you aren't, means hooligan to me and gives you absolutely zero mote credibility tegarding pvp. You play these games for 20 years, you have experience. This MOBA fad BS is a niche, and if you want to hang your hat on it, then stick to it.

Dragon nest isn't an fps.  I don't think you can call a genre with over 100million players a niche tbh... and if it's a fad it's one that has lasted a very long time, since dota was popular since it was a mod in warcraft 3. 

 

Also crowfall draws a lot of parallels to mobas...

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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CF draws comparisons, but it isn't a moba.

 

When do subscriptions determine niches? From my understanding a niche is a subsect. In this case, a subsect of mmorpgs.

 

The length of time, in comparison to mmorpgs, is laughable. MMORPGS brought about MOBAS.

 

You have a knack for skewing the argument in your favor before the arguement even begins. However, this isn't a MOBA and your pvp history (real or otherwise), like mine, is irrelevant.

 

How bout that beer, jack?

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CF draws comparisons, but it isn't a moba.

 

When do subscriptions determine niches? From my understanding a niche is a subsect. In this case, a subsect of mmorpgs.

 

The length of time, in comparison to mmorpgs, is laughable. MMORPGS brought about MOBAS.

 

You have a knack for skewing the argument in your favor before the arguement even begins. However, this isn't a MOBA and your pvp history (real or otherwise), like mine, is irrelevant.

 

How bout that beer, jack?

CF isn't a moba but it shares a lot in common with mobas.

 

If you want to argue semantics mobas are a niche, but let's be realistic, it's not a very specialized market right now, it's a very mainstream market. 

 

Also mobas are not a subsect of mmorpgs

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena

 

You can see there that the grandfather of moba was inspired by a third person shooter, and that moba itself inspired dota which then inspired so many others. 

 

My experience isn't really irrelevant, it helps formulate my perception which i consider to be very accurate because performance speaks louder than anything else. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Being able to juggle someone I would say is not fun. That doesn't require thinking.... that only requires repeating the same combos so you lock down an opponent so they cant fight back. Poor Design. That's boring for intelligent players and boring for the victim of the endless combo.

 

Soft CC, low RNG elements, twitch combat, and the ability for a skills matters. Learning a combo and perfecting the button mashing isn't skill.

 

Crowfall is going to focus on medium-large scale combat involving a lot of tactics. Juggling wont work with that.

 

People are not forced to play one game... if you enjoy juggling then go play a fighter game on the side.

 

I'd llke to clarify something for the sake of understanding. it takes a lot of skill to operate complex sequences and execute precise timing, it's a very detailed part of a lot of fighting games...

 

It just fails in a war game scenario, in a fighting game, there is a vacuum of activity going on, it's often barely 2 dimensional, like 1.5 or 2.5 dimensions in 3D fighters, and it rarely involves several opponents, you can see a significant disparity between a 2 player fighter with 40 hit combos and a brawler that simplifies it's moves to chaining a dozen or two independent skills.

 

These are not strategy game behaviors, where your suppose to dial back and observe opponent positioning and terrain, and coordinate with a large army.

 

In a Single player action game or an isolated 2 person fighter, even in a small arena or brawler, it makes some sense, there's a lot less going on so you can emphasize button mashing and precision and aim, but that's not what works for a good war simulation. Mild forms of those challenges and behaviors may make a strategy action MMO a little more exciting, but going into 40 hit juggles is nonsense in the context of large group fights and interactive combat. Fighting games and Single player action games maintain that kind of gameplay by abstaining from much more complex features.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I'd llke to clarify something for the sake of understanding. it takes a lot of skill to operate complex sequences and execute precise timing, it's a very detailed part of a lot of fighting games...

 

In a Single player action game or an isolated 2 person fighter, even in a small arena or brawler, it makes some sense, there's a lot less going on so you can emphasize button mashing and precision and aim, but that's not what works for a good war simulation. Mild forms of those challenges and behaviors may make a strategy action MMO a little more exciting, but going into 40 hit juggles is nonsense in the context of large group fights and interactive combat. Fighting games and Single player action games maintain that kind of gameplay by abstaining from much more complex features

I guess you are right. I see the video and that just seems boring for the attacker and the victim. it seemed unskilled as if you have good ping then using a key board and mouse just clicking buttons in sequences does not appear difficult. Using a control on the other hand could be more difficult.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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