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Wrathmane

Animation canceling.

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Hello all,

 

They mentioned in the newest combat video that there will be no global cool downs on abilities. Instead abilities usage will be limited by their animations. This bring up my question. Does that mean animation canceling or "light weaving" like in ESO will be possible. I personally hope this will not be the case as I find it incredibly annoying in ESO and I think it wasn't intended in that game. What does everyone else think?


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Wrathmane - Remnant of Ascendance

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I fear animation lock will slow combat down way too much and come off as "rigid". I didn't like how wildpoop and gw2 saturated the battlefield with garbage, but I liked the speed and fluidity of combat. I'd rather they just have 10-12 abilities,on my bar out of 20-25 and put low-medium cool downs rather than forcing mr to stand still for x duration for y ability animation.

Edited by helix

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animation lock, if done right, can lead to amazing combat...

 

same goes for animation cancel. Actually put planning into animation cancel and don't let it develop from some sort of bug.

Let only certain animations be canceled and don't let that technique be used to boost certain combos' dps/effectiveness.

Stuff like Jump-Cancel in the DMC-series, despite having awesome combat, has no place in an MMO.

 

 

Now people, stop being so anrrow minded, TERA isn't the only game that has animation lock.

Plenty other games out there that did it right.

Edited by freeze

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Okay I've see a lot of people talk about this in the other thread and other threads around the forums, so I'll give my personal experience working with Unity and animations. A few updates ago in Unity 4.0 update the makers of Unity put in a brand new animation system into the engine because older animation system was lackluster. This new animation system added in a lot of new support for things like Generic Skeletons, support for human avatars and much more. Now in the animation Inspector for an animation there are a lot of different parameters you can set for the animation, like what makes a said animation start, or how does the animation blend into a different animation, does it blend in after its animation ends or does it blend half way like a walk into a run animation should be. One of these parameters are for how exit transitions should act and it is called "Has Exit Time", which when selected will determine if the transition condition can take effect at any time or only during a state's exit time. When this option is selected a lot of other settings become enabled, so that you can be more precise. Take for instance the "Exit Time" parameter that becomes enabled once "Has Exit Time" is enabled:

 

If “Has Exit Time” is enabled, this value represents the time after which the condition can take effect. This is represented in normalised time, so for example an exit time of 0.75 would mean that the transition can take effect only whene when the playback of the current state is more than 75% complete, and the transition’s conditions are met.

So take the this example for instance if ACE  were to use this option animations they have the control on making it, so that before another animation could start the one before it would need to be 1-100% done before the next would start playing. ACE is using the Unity Game Engine to make this game and if you were to have any questions about it how the engine does something, you could always google it first and see if some where in the documentation is answers it. If you want to learn more about how Unity Animation System does transitions you can look here: http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/class-Transition.html or if you want to learn about Unity's Animation System as a whole you can always read this: http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/AnimationOverview.html

 

Edit: Oh here a quick picture I took of a simple character animation controller would look like:

 

DCVtxy6.png

Edited by Nex

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I'm sure people will find out small exploits/advantages in the animation system to squeeze in more/faster abilities per minute. Most MMOs have small little ways you can do this that aren't completely gamebreaking but will absolutely give you an advantage.

 

Wildstar was full of abilities that if used in a certain way/timed right would save you a few hundredths of a second on your GCDs. I personally like little things like that that differentiate the people who know the systems in and out from the newer players, however they can't be too advantageous. 

Edited by Zybak

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I'm sure people will find out small exploits/advantages in the animation system to squeeze in more/faster abilities per minute. Most MMOs have small little ways you can do this that aren't completely gamebreaking but will absolutely give you an advantage.

 

Wildstar was full of abilities that if used in a certain way/timed right would save you a few hundredths of a second on your GCDs. I personally like little things like that that differentiate the people who know the systems in and out from the newer players, however they can't be too advantageous. 

 

I think of this in 2 ways: firstly, this will make not a big difference due to the lack of 1on1 combat but rather based on strength in advantageous situations. Secondly this will not be planned for or welcomed so that it will be not even in the game or maybe patched out later because of the combat they aim for.


 

I AM ME!
I love you all.

 

 

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they need to handle it like EOS (echo of souls) does, The only thing that will break animation lock is dodge, block or interrupt skills.  other then that everything else needs to be on a que system with animation lock.. Do this without tab target and you will have a fast furious style game play that is not twitchy...

Edited by Nakawe

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I hope it will be somewhat similar to Tera, animation locks that doesnt mean we need those long animations there could be animation locks for a double swing that only takes 0.5 seconds and another animation for a huge fireball or what ever that takes 3 seconds. Eso really had this issue and many other games do as well mostly older once.


Arrogance diminishes wisdom

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I personally think that Feints (IE ability to start an attack with the intention of faking it) should be in the game, but it has to have a cost 

 

Feinting an attack should cost stamina and it should NOT be something you can "spam."

 

Feints have a purpose just like in real life, making your enemy think you're about to attack or do something (while you know you aren't) and opening them up to defend vs that attack when you plan to use a different one.

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There are a lot of ways I think this could work. I do think that unlimited, instant cancelling would end up feeling like a really wishy-washy combat system. I also think having specific abilities and timings for cancels adds a lot.

 

Adding to some other games people are bringing up, I'd also like to point to mount & blade warband as having a pretty awesome melee system. You could "start" to cancel a swing at any time, but aborting a swing to parry took time, and attacks don't deal much damage unless there's a good swing behind them. It looked incredibly awkward, but it felt pretty amazing once you started to get the hang of it. very timing intensive system. Very rewarding to learn.

 

It's almost certainly not the kind of system people want for CF, but it had depth and there's basically nothing else like it, so it's a nice one to have in the mental library-of-systems-past.

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I got thinking about this a little more......I do believe strongly that animation cancelling should not exist, except in the cases of using an interrupt, a dodge, or combo type mechanics. if using one of these skills then it needs to interrupt anything your doing and become top priority.

 

Combine this with a que system that is adjustable, via the option for how many skills you want to que from 1 to 5....  This puts everything back into the users hands and can fine tuned for the various play styles.

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animation lock, if done right, can lead to amazing combat...

 

same goes for animation cancel. Actually put planning into animation cancel and don't let it develop from some sort of bug.

Let only certain animations be canceled and don't let that technique be used to boost certain combos' dps/effectiveness.

Stuff like Jump-Cancel in the DMC-series, despite having awesome combat, has no place in an MMO.

 

 

Now people, stop being so anrrow minded, TERA isn't the only game that has animation lock.

Plenty other games out there that did it right.

Of course TERA isn't the only game that has animation lock. Neverwinter, DCUO, and others have it too, and they all suck as well.

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I fear animation lock will slow combat down way too much and come off as "rigid". I didn't like how wildpoop and gw2 saturated the battlefield with garbage, but I liked the speed and fluidity of combat. I'd rather they just have 10-12 abilities,on my bar out of 20-25 and put low-medium cool downs rather than forcing mr to stand still for x duration for y ability animation.

 

Well I haven't played Tera much beyond starting lvls or any other MMO with animation locks really but pretty sure your character isn't locked into place or rooted. The animation would play while you are moving.

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I for one would like to see animation cancelling having a form of "realism" where it puts you at a disadvantage.  i.e. if you are in the middle of swinging a big axe and decide to sidestep the incoming fireball, you should have a bit of a defense penalty.

 

Now from the dev video, I believe animation time is essential in this game because it is taking the place of global cooldown.

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I personally think that Feints (IE ability to start an attack with the intention of faking it) should be in the game, but it has to have a cost 

 

Feinting an attack should cost stamina and it should NOT be something you can "spam."

 

Feints have a purpose just like in real life, making your enemy think you're about to attack or do something (while you know you aren't) and opening them up to defend vs that attack when you plan to use a different one.

I think an excellent ability would be a feint that has a random set of animation starts instead resulting in a defense bonus  (or attack bonus if part of a combo) rather than a penalty for cancelling an animation (as I suggested above).  as you say, they should not be spammable.

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Of course TERA isn't the only game that has animation lock. Neverwinter, DCUO, and others have it too, and they all suck as well.

 

or are you just bad at these game?

 

maybe maybe maybe

Edited by freeze

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Of course TERA isn't the only game that has animation lock. Neverwinter, DCUO, and others have it too, and they all suck as well.

Animation lock only sucks if you also have a global or ability cooldown.  If you do not, animation lock is good because you actually have to commit to the move rather than spam your buttons.  The trick the devs have it make abilities hit quick enough that its not as easy as dodging a old lady in a walker (except on Black Friday... shudder)

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