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Ducem

Who gets to loot?

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Wouldn't your support be in the same group as the people they're supporting?

 

And if the people you are supporting are not sharing the loot then consider supporting someone else.

 

This was not the point at all, and I feel you're both picking at straws at this point. The point flat out is that all roles should contribute equally, not just raw damage. This isn't 1995 where coding past biggest number wins is not possible. And from what I've seen, this game is about the subtle nuances that will make it great. Not sure why we'd skimp here.

 

But either way, this is probably beating a dead horse at this point.

Edited by zephel

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I would start with group loot going first to the group that did the most damage.

 

I think the fact that support is in a group with damage dealers is very relevant to a conversation about this proposal.


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Agree.  Usually a mix of damage taken should also be thrown in.  Support will provide either damage mitigation or enhancement in some (all-be-it often) indirect fashion.

 

Not sure if you caught this, but this sums up what Savevs and I were discussing. This wraps up my thoughts exactly, I'm not sure where you are going past this? You seem to think that the discussions of support/defenders being less desirable was just thrown in there without thought of how to even the field so all roles provide equal points to the pool.

 

All we were saying is that EVERY role should put into this magical pool of who gets loot, not just roles who punch things the most. This way good support roles etc. are valued at their job in group settings and providing equally to the literal effort of loot gain. I'm not talking figuratively (as in the group MAY of failed without support, that's an endless vacuum argument with  no solid numbers), I'm speaking specifically of whatever mathematical algorithm that calculates who gets it. That should *not* be calculated purely by damage dealt, which I think Savev nailed right on the head.

Edited by zephel

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I can not see any other way that FFA loot for this game.
And that is the way it should be.

First come, first served....

 

Edited by Agravenn
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Not sure if you caught this, but this sums up what Savevs and I were discussing. This wraps up my thoughts exactly, I'm not sure where you are going past this? You seem to think that the discussions of support/defenders being less desirable was just thrown in there without thought of how to even the field so all roles provide equal points to the pool.

 

All we were saying is that EVERY role should put into this magical pool of who gets loot, not just roles who punch things the most. This way good support roles etc. are valued at their job in group settings and providing equally to the literal effort of loot gain. I'm not talking figuratively (as in the group MAY of failed without support, that's an endless vacuum argument with  no solid numbers), I'm speaking specifically of whatever mathematical algorithm that calculates who gets it. That should *not* be calculated purely by damage dealt, which I think Savev nailed right on the head.

I am not going down the role/archetype tangent.  I used damage but meant to suggest that the group that has the largest "participation" in a kill gets the loot and that is divided by the group's loot rules.  After 60 sec (or whatever number) is becomes FFA.  Let the devs figure out what participation equals.

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I am not going down the role/archetype tangent.  I used damage but meant to suggest that the group that has the largest "participation" in a kill gets the loot and that is divided by the group's loot rules.  After 60 sec (or whatever number) is becomes FFA.  Let the devs figure out what participation equals.

 

I know. Sorry I was going rather lengthy to try and explain that, and agree let the devs figure that portion out.

Whatever can be left in the hands of the players should be. Let us figure/fight it out for ourselves.

 

This gives me the chills, and not the good kind.  <_<

Edited by zephel

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I know. Sorry I was going rather lengthy to try and explain that, and agree let the devs figure that portion out.

 

 

Disagree heavily here. No offense, but players can tend to dig their own grave with half thought ideas on what is most fun "now" but not what is fun in the long run. Player input is very important, but player decision on a very key aspect of the game might not go well...

 

Maybe I don't have a lot of faith in humanity? <shrug>

Thats the point, and i thought the point of Crowfall. Its all about player conflict. Have faith in your guild to defend your resources from your opponents, and take their stuff. If members of a guild cant behave fairly with themselves, you have to doubt their effectiveness.

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You're right, but I believe there still have to be smart controls set in place for that to work properly. There's a delicate balance on that slider between player control and game control. Going full throttle in the wrong direction can cause a lot of issues IMO.

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We don't want another game to hold our hand.

 

No offense, but I suppose the "we" is in reference to every single backer?

Edited by zephel

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Seems like this is just a want to create a grief fest, and not good PvP. But that's just my opinion, and judging from most responses, I'm one of the few. Can't win every battle I suppose!

Edited by zephel

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No offense, but I suppose the "we" is in reference to every single backer?

Cant speak for everyone, but the kind of people ACE have said the game is aimed at would be "we".


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I feel like a lot of the responses to this thread (including mine) are ignoring the fact that some campaign rules won't have FFA PvP, so killing the looter won't actually be an option.

 

My responses, like many in this thread, come from the perspective of a Dregs player.  In the Dregs we can kill any and all people who try to steal our loot.  Problem solved.

 

In a factional campaign type, it may not be possible to kill ninja-looters who are in your own faction.  There may be nothing you can do about "enemies" in your own faction.  In that sort of situation, a looting mechanic might be needed.  In that context, some of the stuff being discussed in this thread makes more sense.

 

Until we know how the faction rules will work it is hard to speculate on what sort of looting makes sense for them.  The more restrictions there are on how players police themselves, the more hand-holding mechanisms become important.  That is part of why I have little interest in the factional rulesets.


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I feel like a lot of the responses to this thread (including mine) are ignoring the fact that some campaign rules won't have FFA PvP, so killing the looter won't actually be an option.

 

My responses, like many in this thread, come from the perspective of a Dregs player.  In the Dregs we can kill any and all people who try to steal our loot.  Problem solved.

 

In a factional campaign type, it may not be possible to kill ninja-looters who are in your own faction.  There may be nothing you can do about "enemies" in your own faction.  In that sort of situation, a looting mechanic might be needed.  In that context, some of the stuff being discussed in this thread makes more sense.

 

Until we know how the faction rules will work it is hard to speculate on what sort of looting makes sense for them.  The more restrictions there are on how players police themselves, the more hand-holding mechanisms become important.  That is part of why I have little interest in the factional rulesets.

Good point, Jah.

 

It would be interesting if loot rights fell in line with the CW's ruleset. Dregs = FFA loot, Shadow = non-guild members can loot, Infected = different deity factions can loot, God's Reach = the other two factions can loot... Mechanics would be in place to maintain the integrity of the CW rules, but the possibility of somebody ninja looting would still be there.

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The smallest of arguments could be made towards 'instanced' loot but in a hardcore PvP game like this, it isn't a very strong one and the cons easily outweigh the pros. As for the defeated not losing their loot.. answer me this. If this is implemented; what is the point of inventory loot beyond the other player essentially being a smarter mob? It's already been made clear that only inventory will be lootable, not equipped gear. Said gear will only degrade in durability, later to be repaired by a crafter at the cost of a loss of it's overall durability.

 

Edit: I will point out, however, that on certain rulesets it seems that even equipped gear will be lootable or have a percentage chance to be so when you die. Something to also bare in mind.

They've not really explained much in depth on what campaigns will have what loot rules, but different campaigns will come with different rulesets for sure.  That being said, armor degrading isn't the justification for not dropping loot. Even the loot you drop will have degraded some through your death.

 

 

I think this is a tricky topic that has to be looked at carefully. You'll have one side of the fence that wants FFA loot, whoever gets it first etc. While this is more of an old school form of loot, this does not appeal to the masses. You can argue this point, but the games with the largest player bases have the hand holding loot systems.

 

Being a PvP oriented game it has some luxury to be more brutal (as noted by different campaigns), but you have to realize the more elitist you make the loot system, the more it turns off the masses preventing the company from money and inevitably, more content.

 

So before we pull a super elite approach, think about the larger player base and what works well for the majority of people. That will generally spell the most success for all.  At least, this is my opinion and experience from playing MMOs since NWN on AOL.  :P

The games with the largest player bases don't have loot drop.  The biggest games with loot drop don't have a hand holding mechanic that I've ever seen.

 

I would start with group loot going first to the group that did the most damage.  A person solo in this case is a group of 1.  Let the group leader have some toggles/options for how group loot is disbursed.  This is not only fair, but will speed things along.

 

HOWEVER, if the body sits for more than, say 1 min, it becomes free-for-all loot.  This is prevent loot-lag bodies everywhere, and if people are wanting to get loot from the kills, they have to spend some effort to do it or it goes to the crows!

 

I believe what you drop when you die is based on the rulesets per campaign.

Group looting with a timer leads me to ask the question: What problem does this system solve?  I can't seem to grasp what problem you're attempting to solve with this suggestion.

 

This was not the point at all, and I feel you're both picking at straws at this point. The point flat out is that all roles should contribute equally, not just raw damage. This isn't 1995 where coding past biggest number wins is not possible. And from what I've seen, this game is about the subtle nuances that will make it great. Not sure why we'd skimp here.

 

But either way, this is probably beating a dead horse at this point.

Why should loot be automatically distributed among a group?  Why can't the group just do what you normally do and just pick up the gear you need/want?

 

You're right, but I believe there still have to be smart controls set in place for that to work properly. There's a delicate balance on that slider between player control and game control. Going full throttle in the wrong direction can cause a lot of issues IMO.

 

Player controlled loot distribution isn't a problem in PvP games because if you get into a REAL conflict with people you're with, you can drop team/guild and just kill them and take it back.

Edited by valor

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Multiple people are killing a target.   Does the person who did the most damage get the loot, the person who gets the kill shot, or is it based on a percentage of damage dealt is the percentage of loot you get?

 

lol what??? lmao

 

Gold splits among your group. First person to open the body for the items gets it. You guys can split among yourselves later. Being an open PvP world with possible stealthers around you you don't want the loot to stay on the body for long. 


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lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

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People are also under the impression that everyone will just grab everything until the corpse is empty.

 

I routinely left many items on dead bodies in UO. I didn't have time to pick up every newbie's sextant, candle, seven broad swords, and ten sets of bone armor after killing them in the Brit GY.

 

Waste of space.

 

Loot should be first come first serve, half the time you wont even want it or have space for all of it.

Edited by Adall

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