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Ducem

Who gets to loot?

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lol what??? lmao

 

Gold splits among your group. First person to open the body for the items gets it. You guys can split among yourselves later. Being an open PvP world with possible stealthers around you you don't want the loot to stay on the body for long. 

Why are you laughing, get over yourself, this is a serious topic.  What if your group isn't the only one killing a target?

 

I have a feeling the Devs will go Free For All, but I was wondering what everyone else thought.  In case you didn't read the rest of the thread,  there are quite a few opinions in different directions for this to be handled.

Edited by Ducem

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I agree that FFA is the best way to go for all Campaign rulesets in general,

simply to prevent silly issues with Ninja looting of the same faction without being able to deal with it properly.

 

It would also allow for emergent gameplay and backstabbing of your own faction, if any desired to do so.

 

Maybe the difference between Dregs and the other Rulesets will simply be,

that you can't accidently attack/hurt people in your own group/guild outside of the Dregs Campaign.

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Why are you laughing, get over yourself, this is a serious topic.  What if your group isn't the only one killing a target?

 

I have a feeling the Devs will go Free For All, but I was wondering what everyone else thought.  In case you didn't read the rest of the thread,  there are quite a few opinions in different directions for this to be handled.

 

It's funny cause in a game like this it's a non issue. If you are fighting along side people that would steal from you and your group / guild then you can only blame yourself. The best way to deal with a Ninja looter is just to kill him/her, then ban him/her from the guild / nation if they aren't in your guild / nation then burn their city down. If they aren't a part of a city then burn any city down that they every join effectively blacklisting them. Self regulating society.. why have the devs hold your hand and do it for you?

 

 

edit: added "/her" for inclusiveness <3

 

I agree that FFA is the best way to go for all Campaign rulesets in general,

simply to prevent silly issues with Ninja looting of the same faction without being able to deal with it properly.

It would also allow for emergent gameplay and backstabbing of your own faction, if any desired to do so.

Maybe the difference between Dregs and the other Rulesets will simply be,

that you can't accidently attack/hurt people in your own group/guild outside of the Dregs Campaign.

 

Zola brings up a great point.. I'm guessing friendly fire will be disabled for faction based campaigns.. if you can't kill the ninja looter then this can create problems.. pretty funny either way though.. just let everyone kill anyone else.. with a penalty for killing your own faction. 

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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If loot is FFA, the most likely scenario is that it will evolve naturally.

 

I imagine players will get wise to the risks and agree with their group who will get what kind of loot when available: Kind of a pre-negotiated contract of spoils before heading out. 

 

Beyond that, if you run  a guild, faction or whatever form of persistent group: You want your players to be effective as possible. So spoils will probably be divided among players who need specific items or resources. 

 

Most obvious example: Say you recruit a group of crafters for your guild. These guys are rubbish in combat, but amazing at building fortifications and providing your guild with really nice armour, items and whatnot. 

These guys need materials and resources, but chances are its unlikely they'll be able to earn it all themselves in a competitive environment.

 

So what do you do? You send out your combat specialist to go earn materials for your builders, which they get for free.

In turn, your builders provide your combat team with awesome gear. 

 

 

The only players running a risk of never getting the good stuff, are the players who go at it alone.

But then chances are, they'll take refuge in groups or get chewed up by the time Winter comes around. 

 

 

In the end, I believe a system like this will emerge (what I did here, do you see it?) naturally.


~Strategy is the art of making use of time and space.
I'm less concerned about the latter than the former: Space we can recover, lost time never.

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It's funny cause in a game like this it's a non issue. If you are fighting along side people that would steal from you and your group / guild then you can only blame yourself. The best way to deal with a Ninja looter is just to kill him/her, then ban him/her from the guild / nation if they aren't in your guild / nation then burn their city down. If they aren't a part of a city then burn any city down that they every join effectively blacklisting them. Self regulating society.. why have the devs hold your hand and do it for you?

 

 

editL added / her for inclusiveness <3

 

 

Zola brings up a great point.. I'm guessing friendly fire will be disabled for faction based campaigns.. if you can't kill the ninja looter then this can create problems.. pretty funny either way though.. just let everyone kill anyone else.. with a penalty for killing your own faction. 

It isn't a non issue as you even contradicted yourself within your own post by mentioning what Zola brought up.  Also, you say go kill whoever ninja loots and any guild/nation they join.... what if the person is in stealth when they go ninja loot so you have no idea who took the loot?

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate now to flesh out the discussion, like I said, I believe that the Devs will go FFA.  Just making known the consequences. 

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what if the person is in stealth when they go ninja loot so you have no idea who took the loot?

 

Use anti-stealth powers to nab that ninja.


IhhQKY6.gif

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what if the person is in stealth when they go ninja loot so you have no idea who took the loot?

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate now to flesh out the discussion, like I said, I believe that the Devs will go FFA.  Just making known the consequences.

 

The "what if" game is great... What if the stealther automatically drops stealth on looting? What if a member of the party has track? What if a member, maybe the same member, has reveal? What if injuries automatically drop stealth, so every person IG throws down some AOEs once they have a stealther OT? What if, what if, what if... It's not devils advocate, it's preschool for PVP.

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The "what if" game is great... What if the stealther automatically drops stealth on looting? What if a member of the party has track? What if a member, maybe the same member, has reveal? What if injuries automatically drop stealth, so every person IG throws down some AOEs once they have a stealther OT? What if, what if, what if... It's not devils advocate, it's preschool for PVP.

 

This is called emergent gameplay.  


nAd1VPD.png

"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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The "what if" game is great... What if the stealther automatically drops stealth on looting? What if a member of the party has track? What if a member, maybe the same member, has reveal? What if injuries automatically drop stealth, so every person IG throws down some AOEs once they have a stealther OT? What if, what if, what if... It's not devils advocate, it's preschool for PVP.

Get over yourself.  The point of "what if" is to determine the consequences of situations. It is important to understand the consequences of which way looting will be handled as just because you may think it will happen one specific way is not necessarily how the Devs will make it.  There will be different consequences for which one the Devs choose.

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It isn't a non issue as you even contradicted yourself within your own post by mentioning what Zola brought up.  Also, you say go kill whoever ninja loots and any guild/nation they join.... what if the person is in stealth when they go ninja loot so you have no idea who took the loot?

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate now to flesh out the discussion, like I said, I believe that the Devs will go FFA.  Just making known the consequences. 

 

I didn't contradict myself. If you read my post and use a bit of deduction you would see that I am stating that, even though this might be an issue in campaigns where friendly fire might be disabled against your entire faction (not just those in your group) I still propose that the solution to this is just killing the ninja looter. People need to be able to kill who every they want, even those in your own faction. If they make it so you can't kill people in your own faction I and many others will have a lot of fun on our spy characters as we ninja loot from you and disable your city's defenses as you stand there unable to do anything. This isn't against the rules, who say's I can't role-play as a "disgruntled follower of the Spaghetti Monster god"?

 

ALSO, if you'd like for me to repeat myself: If anyone is PvPing with someone (WHO IS INVISIBLE) who would steal from them they are stupid and could only blame themselves (not to mention they are also a bad judgment of character). If you are out in the world killing people or monsters and someone who is NOT in your group happens to be invisible and they loot a corpse before you do (and they get away with it) "then you are bad player and you need to get better." - Todd Coleman

 

If you do not have the ability to reveal people who are invisible then you need to delay killing the mob and kill anyone who comes around until someone who can reveal invisible players for you can come and help you make sure there isn't anyone invisible around you. This was common practice in Shadowbane. 

 

In Shadowbane the way Discipline Runes spawned was that they would spawn inside of a monster that spawned on a fixed timer (every 4-8 hours). If you and a group of your friends went to kill this mob you usually had to kill everyone else (who also want the rune) around the mob camp in order to "win" the right to kill and loot the mob. If none of your group could reveal invisible players then you needed to spam AoE's around the mob as you killed it or you needed to wait until one of your friends who could reveal invisible players came and helped you.

 

Rule of thumb: You always assume there is an invisible player around you waiting to steal loot from a corpse you kill.

 

Other rules to live by:

-If you are in a farming group have a designated looter (anyone else who loots is warned/killed/kicked). 

-If you join some one else's group ask if you can loot if they say no then don't loot. If you do loot prepare to be killed/kicked/banned from your guild.

-If you are allowed to loot and something you need drops that someone else also needs you two type /random 100 to manually roll for it. The winner then gets the item via trade if they weren't the initial person to loot it.

 

 

This IS a NON-Issue: Play a class that can reveal stealth or play with a friend who can. If you don't play a class that can reveal stealth or suck at making friends, then you're assed out. "Get good or die." - Todd Coleman.

 

 

In case you missed it, the devs already stated that they like stealing and ninja looting because "its fun" and that they "do love it and want to have it in." - Thomas Blair & Todd Coleman --> https://youtu.be/TErDtyeQIDI?t=8m6s

 

If you want server/client forced looting rules where loot is frozen in a mobs corpse until you guys decide who gets it, then go play World of Warcraft and stop trying to carebear Crowfall.

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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Speaking of loot. I hope they have a thief class with stealth looting. It was a lot of fun stealing form a party. It also gives the Anti Stealth classes a multi role in a group.

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Speaking of loot. I hope they have a thief class with stealth looting. It was a lot of fun stealing form a party. It also gives the Anti Stealth classes a multi role in a group.

 

You didn't watch the video link I added above did you? They say they want this in game and would be surprised if it wasn't: 


OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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Get over yourself.  The point of "what if" is to determine the consequences of situations. It is important to understand the consequences of which way looting will be handled as just because you may think it will happen one specific way is not necessarily how the Devs will make it.  There will be different consequences for which one the Devs choose.

Get over myself? Maybe one day? The struggle is real.

 

The point of "what if" is to determine consequences to reasonably common PVP occurrences...? Gotcha! Whatever you say Chief.

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I didn't contradict myself. If you read my post and use a bit of deduction you would see that I am stating that, even though this might be an issue in campaigns where friendly fire might be disabled against your entire faction (not just those in your group) I still propose that the solution to this is just killing the ninja looter. People need to be able to kill who every they want, even those in your own faction. If they make it so you can't kill people in your own faction I and many others will have a lot of fun on our spy characters as we ninja loot from you and disable your city's defenses as you stand there unable to do anything. This isn't against the rules, who say's I can't role-play as a "disgruntled follower of the Spaghetti Monster god"?

 

ALSO, if you'd like for me to repeat myself: If anyone is PvPing with someone (WHO IS INVISIBLE) who would steal from them they are stupid and could only blame themselves (not to mention they are also a bad judgment of character). If you are out in the world killing people or monsters and someone who is NOT in your group happens to be invisible and they loot a corpse before you do (and they get away with it) "then you are bad player and you need to get better." - Todd Coleman

 

 

Having to have second accounts to roleplay "disgruntled follower of the Spaghetti Monster god" is an issue.  One shouldn't have to have second accounts.  So let us hope they make it so you can kill your own faction.

 

You seem to forget that this is a large scale warfare game as well.  You think you are going to be able to just stop and loot during the chaos of a large amount of people going at it?  Do you really think someone is going to notice a 3rd party stealth looter in the midst of all that chaos?  Do you think that it's going to be acceptable that you are doing damage to your own allies just so you can loot? 

 

 

If you want server/client forced looting rules where loot is frozen in a mobs corpse until you guys decide who gets it, then go play World of Warcraft and stop trying to carebear Crowfall.

 

I never said I was in favor of any one or the other.  I asked the OP to get discussion rolling as the topic had never been covered.  People state their opinions and give various logic behind it.  I reply with situations with which might be exceptions to their logic.

 

Stop saying that I am trying to carebear Crowfall when I am not.  I do not appreciate your slander.

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Libel, not slander.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Having to have second accounts to roleplay "disgruntled follower of the Spaghetti Monster god" is an issue.  One shouldn't have to have second accounts.  So let us hope they make it so you can kill your own faction.

 

You're right, one should not HAVE to purchase multiple accounts to have other characters in a campaign. They should let people use multiple characters per account per campaign. On a side note.. I don't think I mentioned using a second account to do this.. I'd just do it outright on one account.

 

You seem to forget that this is a large scale warfare game as well.  You think you are going to be able to just stop and loot during the chaos of a large amount of people going at it?  Do you really think someone is going to notice a 3rd party stealth looter in the midst of all that chaos?  Do you think that it's going to be acceptable that you are doing damage to your own allies just so you can loot? 

 

Nope didn't forget..  if you are in a "large scale" warfare situation in game people are expecting to die which means their inventory will likely be empty and only have junk items like recall scrolls and mana / hp pots.. nothing worth preventing and not worth assigning a stealth popper to. Who cares if some random stealther is looting all the mana/hp and buff pots. 

 

Where ninja looting happens tend to be be in small scale PvP and 1v1 Pvp where there is a rare mob and something small where desirable loot is present. Obviously when things like that are happening you need people who can detect stealthers and who are assigned the task of just focusing on popping and detecting stealthers. 

 

 

 Do you think that it's going to be acceptable that you are doing damage to your own allies just so you can loot? 

 

If you and your allies are trying to loot something and they are forced to run into a friendly AoE to prevent other people from ninja looting... yeah that's pretty acceptable.. it's called teamwork.
 

 

Stop saying that I am trying to carebear Crowfall when I am not.  I do not appreciate your slander.

 

Your initial post (Does the person who did the most damage get the loot, the person who gets the kill shot, or is it based on a percentage of damage dealt is the percentage of loot you get? -Ducem) implies that you are either not familiar with the concept of FFA Loot and therefore, probably have only played games with a loot system that some may consider "carebearish."

 

Being a carebear is not a bad thing. It's just a play style that some people find more favorable. Don't know what people are so against carebears.. we all need someone to hunt.

 

Also, I'm not trying to "slander" you. I just said that "*** If *** you want server/client forced looting rules where loot is frozen in a mobs corpse until you guys decide who gets it, then go play World of Warcraft and stop trying to carebear Crowfall." 

 

It was an open statement, I never said that "You are.." or "Ducem is trying to..". If you're not trying to advocate for "server/client forced looting rules" then you have nothing to be offended about. If you ARE an advocate for such looting ruleset then you are in-fact in favor of what many would consider a "carebear" ruleset and therefore would be a "carebear" (at least when it comes to looting rules) and calling youa carebear would not be considered "slander" since it is in-fact your stance on the given subject. 

 

I would like to elaborate on this point, a "carebear" according to the MMO lingo is a person who avoids PvP combat and situations where PvP might ensue. In this case we are talking about the looting system in Crowfall. Crowfall for the most part has presented it's vision of becoming an open world FFA PvP game where action have their consequences. This being the case, one can assume that if ACE is to uphold the spirit of "the vision" in all aspects of the game, FFA should be the most logical and deductive route they would choose for the looting ruleset. 

 

The largest cons people usually present when presented with the idea of FFA loot usually has to do with the unfair distribution and stealing (ninja looting) of loot. However, since Crowfall is a game with open PvP and anyone could be killed for their actions the logical solution to stopping someone from ninja looting would be to kill them and threaten to kill them if they take something that belongs to someone else. 

 

Since locking loot to "force" collaboration and prevent people from stealing from you (a type of "PvP") could be considered a method of preventing / mitigating / avoiding PvP, anyone who is an advocate for forced loot collaboration and theft protection could be considered a "carebear".

 

 

The system should not protect you from the consequences of playing with people you don't know or from playing with people who are likely to steal from you. If you decide to play with people who would do that then it's your own damn fault. If you are on a large battlefield where people are expecting to kill and be killed the chances of you actually looting something of value is very low. Forcing everyone into a "forced" loot distribution system because a random invisible person is out there looting mana and hp pots seems unreasonable and anyone advocating such a system, is in-fact, a carebear.

 

If you're an individual who avoids conflictive situations where PvP might happen and believes that game mechanics should help to eliminate or reduce risk when it comes to loot rulesets / PvP then you are a carebear.

 

I just wanted to briefly clarify what I believe a carebear is.

 

 

Now.. since you consider being called a carebear slander.. you're saying that you want a FFA loot ruleset right? If not, please see the above third* section of this post.

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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Also, I'm not trying to "slander" you. I just said that "*** If *** you want server/client forced looting rules where loot is frozen in a mobs corpse until you guys decide who gets it, then go play World of Warcraft and stop trying to carebear Crowfall." 

 

It was an open statement, I never said that "You are.." or "Ducem is trying to..". If you're not trying to advocate for "server/client forced looting rules" then you have nothing to be offended about. If you ARE an advocate for such looting ruleset then you are in-fact in favor of what many would consider a "carebear" ruleset and therefore would be a "carebear" (at least when it comes to looting rules) and calling youa carebear would not be considered "slander" since it is in-fact your stance on the given subject. 

Your statement had been poorly placed.  It should have been in a separate post.  It made it seem like you were trying to make me look bad.

 

 

 

Now.. since you consider being called a carebear slander.. you're saying that you want a FFA loot ruleset right? If not, please see the above third* section of this post.

 

I tend to take a game, however it is designed, and play it.  I really can't stand people who try and change a game (especially after release!).  I will be happy to play this game regardless of looting rules and have no advocacy for any way over another.

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Such an intense discussion for a pre alpha game.


PvE is like water to my whiskey. Don't water down my whiskey.- Ronald Reagan

 

Don't be a custard gonzo.- Abraham Lincoln

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