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In the majority of games I've played/are aware of, all disciplinary actions against players are considered private and not allowed to be discussed in any fashion with other parties (as they rarely, if ever, know all the elements of situation and history).

Privacy is normally cherished by people and violating it typically ends up intersecting with the real-world legal system. 

Should Crows have zero privacy to maximize transparency?

 

If you're referring to my post, I was talking about letting people AT LEAST talk about and mention people that were banned. When I asked on the forums why X person was banned I was genuinely curious and was asking the community** not the mods. If anything, a response from a mod that said "Primal was banned for violating XXX section of the ToS/CoC/ETC.. for all we know he was banned for hacking into Crowfall's payment system causing all the checkout errors.. in that case I would say hell yeah! ban the custard! And give us his address so we can mail him our excrements.

 

People should not be punished for talking about events that affect the community. Primal getting banned, though miniscule in the grand scheme of things, is an important event in the community. People can learn from it and know not to do what he did. If people see contributors with large post counts getting banned from the game before it even comes out for trolling someone on the forums then people will think twice before they act like a fool. That's the type of transparency I'm calling for. It's not much to ask and it would actually benefit the community. If someone starts making fun of Primal and trolling him and his buddies because of it give them a warning/strike because that is what is actually against the CoC.. talking about someone who was banned / suspended is not a bad thing and allows people to understand the direction mods are going with the community and can produce talking points that the community can talk about and help it improve / become more stable.

 

People who do not intend to break the rules (like many of us who are active on the forums) should not be afraid that their next post is going to land them a strike / suspension or a ban. The fact that people feel that way is a problem and maybe being more open about why people are being issued warning, strikes and bans will help people understand where Pann and the mods are coming from.

 

Common Gordon don't try to derail my post.. let's be friends and get along  icon-16x16-heart.png MvsWY19.png?1 icon-16x16-heart.png MvsWY19.png?1icon-16x16-heart.pngMvsWY19.png?1 icon-16x16-heart.png MvsWY19.png?1 icon-16x16-heart.png MvsWY19.png?1icon-16x16-heart.png

 

Also, this really can't be considered a violation of someone's privacy considering they got warned / suspended / banned for something they posted in a PUBLIC forum.. you can throw the privacy argument out the window.

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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I believe there should be a "about the forum" section that includes certain threads, such as:

1. Moderators post who was banned, for how long, and maybe say why. Thread should be locked to non-moderators.

2. A single thread for member suspension discussion where members and moderators can discuss and question bans and ban details.

3. A moderator discussion thread where members may question, give feedback, and discuss the moderators and their actions. Different from thread #2 as that is for discussing specifically bans and not other things such as locks, edits, etc.

 

These threads alone aren't their point in all honesty, for what these threads create is what is important. I don't want to see User231414 spamming multiple threads about over-moderation, what this does is basically limit it to several threads. Instead of having what frankly can be annoying and possibly off-topic displayed across the forums you funnel it all into one nice little section. This gives a place for people to discuss the moderating, keeps it out of everything else, and coupled with making the mods known I believe leads to a better forum.

 

Anonymous moderators is beyond silly, like what in the custard.

 

I know a forum (a sport forum at that) that has known mods and has the three threads described above and I believe it works well.


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Also, this really can't be considered a violation of someone's privacy considering they got warned / suspended / banned for something they posted in a PUBLIC forum.. you can throw the privacy argument out the window.

 

Many times the post that gets someone sanctioned is hidden, in fact we probably don't do that enough.  If it violates the rules enough to get someone in trouble, it should not remain on the forums.  (thanks for bringing up that point)

 

Usually if a person is actually suspended or banned, it's because of a pattern of behavior (i.e. repeated issues).  So people seeing the final offensive post often are outraged by "how could this be a suspension or banning offense" when they don't know the person involved has been a very slow learner.

 

The privacy part is about their record of prior issues and the fact they've been involved in being moderated at all. 


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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Many times the post that gets someone sanctioned is hidden, in fact we probably don't do that enough.  If it violates the rules enough to get someone in trouble, it should not remain on the forums.  (thanks for bringing up that point)

 

Usually if a person is actually suspended or banned, it's because of a pattern of behavior (i.e. repeated issues).  So people seeing the final offensive post often are outraged by "how could this be a suspension or banning offense" when they don't know the person involved has been a very slow learner.

 

The privacy part is about their record of prior issues and the fact they've been involved in being moderated at all. 

What ever happened to "Play to Crush"?

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Many times the post that gets someone sanctioned is hidden, in fact we probably don't do that enough.  If it violates the rules enough to get someone in trouble, it should not remain on the forums.  (thanks for bringing up that point)

Usually if a person is actually suspended or banned, it's because of a pattern of behavior (i.e. repeated issues).  So people seeing the final offensive post often are outraged by "how could this be a suspension or banning offense" when they don't know the person involved has been a very slow learner.

The privacy part is about their record of prior issues and the fact they've been involved in being moderated at all. 

 

Understood, I would still like to see people able to talk about actions moderators have taken.. if a mod decides they would like to respond and say something along the lines of "X person continued to violate sections of our CoC despite a number of warnings which ultimately lead to his suspension/ban" that would be great.. but not necessary. If people disagree that's fine, but let them disagree in an orderly fashion and let them vent a little.. I find that alot more respectable than outright locking threads / banning and issuing warnings to everyone who mentions the name of an offender.. that's a little ridiculous wouldn't you agree?

 

I once created a thread where a handful of individuals decided to try to derail the subject by posting memes / pictures (against the CoC), I was also directly insulted and was obviously being trolled. Since I had been issued a warning previously for responding to trolls I simply hit the report button. This soon became a 19 page thread.. I later reported some of the same people who were trolling and I was issued a warning (strike) for abusing the report button.. lol

 

I made a comment about being issued a warning and then received a warning for talking about my warning... lmao! This has happened to numerous people on the forums.. people should be able to talk about warnings, suspensions, bans etc. Why the hell couldn't I talk about my own warning? Was I violating my own privacy? It's not like I attacked the mod.

 

I still don't understand why my thread about primal being banned was locked and why I was issued a (verbal) warning. I'm assuming the decision was based on this section of the forum rules:

 

If you disagree with a moderator or employee's actions, do not discuss or challenge the matter in forum posts. Send an e-mail to support@Crowfall.com, and be sure to include your forum handle and game name, but NOT your password, and clearly state your concerns.

 

But I never stated I disagreed, I was just curious and concerned.. imo it shouldn't of been locked.

 

In-fact, learning opportunities (as I mentioned earlier were lost) here are the responses people made:

 

wargasmo (Sapphire): I leave you guys alone for 5 minutes... This, this is why we can't have nice things..."

Kiro Elmarok (Sapphire): Lame. Must have rubbed one too many people the wrong way. Was a cool dude... its a true shame really. Im sure he'll pk the kids that got him banned though.

Nakawe (Emerald-ACE Development Partner): Doesn't forum banned mean game banned?

ellie (Pledge Unknown - Active Posts 2,701):Another warriors name relegated  to Crowfall history.

 

The mod made the decision that the opinions and questions of these people did not matter and locked the thread. Do you think they are going to feel safe asking a question next time someone is banned or issued a warning? Hell no, and that's very unfortunate.

 

Also, keep in mind that over $6,500 was raised collectively between only 4 of these people (including myself). But I guess our opinions were not worth even answering.. better to just issue out warnings.. yeah.. great moderating.

 

imo, if any policy needs to change it's the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil policy the mods seem so fond of. Sure, people complaining about the mods on your public forums doesn't look good to prospective players and investors, but you also need to consider retention and keeping those who are already here.

Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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what is the commotion

 

there is no need to be upset friends~ McLg4gxca.gif

 

^____^ v

 

namaste, find your center and just cheer on ACE!

 

頑張ってください Gordon-san! 頑張ってください Pann-chan! 頑張ってください Todd-san! 頑張ってください  ACE!!

 

tumblr_inline_nl5nokzp7a1sptc1c.gif

Edited by Lastgirl~

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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what is the commotion

 

there is no need to be upset friends~ McLg4gxca.gif

 

^____^ v

 

namaste, find your center and just cheer on ACE!

 

頑張ってください Gordon-san! 頑張ってください Pann-chan! 頑張ってください Todd-san! 頑張ってください  ACE!!

 

tumblr_inline_nl5nokzp7a1sptc1c.gif

 

To you I say!

 

Communicate constructively: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3-forum-rules-of-conduct/

 

All communication, whether between players, moderators or ArtCraft, must be constructive. Posts without constructive commentary can distract from the topic at hand, reduce the visibility of valuable communication, and discourage others from participating in the conversation.

 

Things to avoid:

  • Images: Posting single images or animated .gifs instead of engaging in discussion is not allowed. Images will be deleted and users may be banned for repeated offenses. Please note that using images to support your discussion is fine, as long as the images follow the forum rules (no adult content, defamation, racism, etc.).


OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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IMO the only gating that should be on the trash talk forum is a sign off on a waiver by the players entering.  There should be no gating by donor level other than what is already needed to get onto the boards.  Anything other than complete access after waiver signed is CF shooting themselves in the foot.

 

You want people to go to that forum that are looking for that experience they're not finding on the moderated boards.  You want them to use it.  Monitor it closely and ban anyone that crosses into personal insults/creeper behavior. 

Also, while I don't like the "no discussion of moderator actions" I also think it's the smartest approach at this point.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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In the majority of games I've played/are aware of, all disciplinary actions against players are considered private and not allowed to be discussed in any fashion with other parties (as they rarely, if ever, know all the elements of situation and history).

 

Privacy is normally cherished by people and violating it typically ends up intersecting with the real-world legal system. 

 

Should Crows have zero privacy to maximize transparency?

 

I, for one, could care less if my warning points were visible. But with the amount of tears that flow in these forums over some jabs at their opinion, i couldn't imagine the oceans that would be created over warning points. The first half of these forums is people PM'ing me to ask if I got them a warning point, because they were arguing with me when they got it. The tears flowed deep then and I wasn't even responsible.

 

But i think taking something common knowledge and throwing out warning points for it is a little ridiculous. Thenebrosity screenshotted YOUR forums that told him Primal got banned. Thread gets locked for discussing moderator action. If you didn't want anyone to know, don't ban people? Here's 3 ways banned player threads could go:

 

1. RIP headlight. Miss you. #sorrynotsorry

2. RIP headlight. I didn't like you anyhow (not okay because it's a flame fest).

3. RIP headlight. Let's talk about every warning point he ever had and let's all post our own warning points (not okay).

 

Sure, #1 is the best case scenario. But if someone persuses this thread and sees me banned and say "rip headlight" or create a "rip headlight" thread, then what's the big deal? If I go into slack and say "i got banned ya'll" and someone posts a rip thread, what's the problem? Moderating a rip thread is no different than moderating a thread about any other subject: keep the insults to a minimum and remove discussions of moderator actions. Banning and suspensions are Pann's area, isn't it?

 

It's really discussing community manager action, especially a ban.I don't see how zero transparency is the extreme needed when people are just asking moderators to lighten up.

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Repeat:

 

P.S. It is against the current Rules of Conduct to talk about specific moderation issues.  Those are private between us and the specific backer.  We are here to talk about policy, not specific instances so try and stay out of trouble please!

 

 

My main issue is that these decisions and reports that are acted upon come from the most thin skinned part of the community. It bothers me that policy seems to cater to this crowd.

 

 

"Fear will keep the local systems in line ... fear of this battle-station"

 

when 'good intentions' require near perfect implementation & collaboration to avoid the (sometimes unavoidable) 'bad results' that may arise.  Treading on 'freedom of speech' is never an easy undertaking or without drama & debate.

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100% transparency? Let's start this train.

 

I'm down.. technically this isn't against the CoC so it shouldn't yield anyone strikes/warnings. This thread needs a little bit of positiveness, let's see which mod has done their job the best guys! You can view your warning log by clicking "warning points" under your avatar.

 

 

Abide by moderator and ArtCraft employee instructions

If you disagree with a moderator or employee's actions, do not discuss or challenge the matter in forum posts. Send an e-mail to support@Crowfall.com, and be sure to include your forum handle and game name, but NOT your password, and clearly state your concerns.

(Good thing we aren't disagreeing with their actions, but rather appreciating and sharing their hard work.)

 

I REPEAT: POSTING YOUR WARNING LOG DOES NOT VIOLATE ANY SECTION OF THE FORUM RULES OF CONDUCT.

(PLEASE SEE: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3-forum-rules-of-conduct/)

 

 

Mod of the Year: ★★★★★ XconVic still in the lead with 2 Verbals and 3 Warning-Points! ★★★★★

 

Agravenn:

Verbal Warnings: 1

Warning-Points: 0

 

HungerMod:

Verbal Warnings: 1

Warning-Points: 0

 

Conspiracy Theorist:

Verbal Warnings: 0

Warning-Points: 3

 

arawulf:

Verbal Warnings: 1

Warning-Points: 2

 

cmurder:

Verbal Warnings: 0

Warning-Points: 1

 

Agelmar:

Verbal Warnings: 2

Warning-Points: 0

 

Zoltariel:

Verbal Warnings: 1

Warning-Points: 0

 

XcomVic:

Verbal Warnings: 2

Warning-Points: 3

 

Pann:

Verbal Warnings: 1

Warning-Points: 1

 

 

Bad Guys: ☹☣☢☣☹ checkyotrack is one bad mofo, with 6 Warning Points and 7 Verbals ☹☣☢☣☹

 

checkyotrack: 6 Warnings - 7 Verbals

thenebrosity: 4 Warnings - 2 Verbals

 

UwVRGVU.png?1

 
Edited by thenebrosity

OQa1xvz.png?1

lol ok.. I wonder if I'll still be able to steal directly from people's inventories.. hrmmm

;)Twitch - Twitter

RIP DOC GONZO

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To you I say!

 

Sheesh you dont have to be so mean, you big lump!

 

tumblr_ltuqc9dqVI1qktqch.gif

 

Hmph! </3

 

I just want Pann-chan to do her best! I just want ACE to give it their all! I believe in them!! A solution can be met!! GO TEAM ACE!!(‐^▽^‐)

Edited by Lastgirl~

The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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Transparency?  At any percentage.....no.

 

Why?  Way back when I was in the fourth grade, we had a teacher that would put our name up in the corner of the black board when we got a whooping.  Each time he used his paddle on us, he would add a mark next to our name.  

 

A lot of us made it into a contest to see who could get the most marks.

 

We have a lot of fourth graders on this forum.

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My experience with Crowfall so far: 10/10 ACE dev team communication, 1/10 forum moderation (one point thanks to this thread only).

Utterly disappointed by how the forum is being handled at the moment to say it politely.

 

1. Remove any pre-anonymous era moderators from the pool;

2. Introduce a way to "punish" bad moderation, for example transfer warning points to a moderator when their WPs get challenged and removed by Pann;

3. Rethink the policy against "discussing" moderation (fyi pann, there's a difference between mentioning and discussing), the more people know about WHAT is considered an effraction the better (even if only inside a topic).. especially considering how DIFFERENT the rules are being interpreted according to the user who "breaks them";

4. Explain the logic behind verbal warnings.. why some get them for major insults and others get suspended without ever being PMed for a minor offense;

5. Rethink the policy against images/gifs;

6. Open up a light moderated subforum ASAP;

7. Don't apologize 3 months after a questionable action has been done if you're doing nothing about it either;

8. Grow a sense of humor.

 

And now let's take a moment to picture how everyone is behaving post-KS (curious timing btw), aka since the strict rules have been applied:

 

ahhh-my-face.gif

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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