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My main issue is that these decisions and reports that are acted upon come from the most thin skinned part of the community. It bothers me that policy seems to cater to this crowd. In a PvP game such as Crowfall and the influx of SB veterans there were going to be sparks on the forums-I mean we've spent twelve years playing a game for the sole purpose to talk trash to other people on forums. The more you moderate the more push back you receive. It seems the policy here is, "Delete posts first, ask questions later" I find this behavior to create a more toxic environment than the alleged tr@lls.

This. Some of the things I've been getting warned about and getting warning points for are on the verge of being extremely ridiculous.


For example, sometimes it's COMPLETELY obvious that it's just a joke post, yet the moderators still take it 100% seriously as if their lives depended on keeping order on the forums.


I don't think I've ever seen a more strict official forum for a game in the last ~15 years. As soon as you post anything that could even be considered remotely offensive to anyone, it gets deleted and you get a "no no, don't do that" warning point on your account.


Sometimes entire threads are pruned out of the blue because someone got offended by something.


Also, the whole "you can't discuss moderator actions" is really getting to the point where it's kinda stupid. What's wrong with discussing something that you think is wrong? If you don't go in-depth about the warning/ban/whatever and you don't mention any names anyway, what's the harm?


It's like as if you're trying to make the forums some sort of safe-zone hugbox where everyone can bring their family to have picnic and no one is allowed to say anything at all because someone might get a boo boo on their feelings. Are you making a PvP game or are you making a family friendly picnic adventure game?


The whole play2crush campaign should have probably been play2cuddle instead if you look at what's been happening on these forums the last month or so.


(I fully expect this post to get removed and another warning point added to my account, which would just prove my point).

Edited by macavity



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Also, the whole "you can't discuss moderator actions" is really getting to the point where it's kinda stupid. What's wrong with discussing something that you think is wrong? If you don't go in-depth about the warning/ban/whatever and you don't mention any names anyway, what's the harm?




They did state that is something they need to take a good long look at, when i read the replies to that being addressed.  I think the issue which they are concerned with is questioning it openly on the forums and in full view of other people can lead to trolling, flaming and other such things like that which they want to avoid.  But it seems clear that isn't the right answer.


I think the reason they don't want names mentioned is that it has a tendency to cause problems such as "witch hunts" and the like.  Problem is, that is an assumption, everything I've written is a guess, problem with it all is apparently it isn't clearly defined the reasons for it, it just is and the explanations are not clear.  


That is what everyone seems concerned about apparently, or I could be talking out my bottom again apparently ...

Edited by Psyctooth

My hubris is the size of a 2 by 4 nailed to the side of a YF-12 jet barrel rolling into a volcano piloted by a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

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Where I come from, it is in fact considered a personal attack.

Reason:  It is provocative of a negative response, a.k.a starts flame wars.  Which would result in the victim getting in trouble if the victim bit the bait.  it is entirely inappropriate.  If people want to avoid the situation where they could hurt someone's feelings, it's best to bite ones lip and keep their opinion to themselves, as much as some may dislike what I wrote, I believe it was necessary to say, with that stated, I most cirtianly won't bring it up or repeat it a second time considering how much I must of obviously upset certain individuals.


It is rather obvious the issue in question is moderators acting outside the bounds of forum rules. moderators abusive of power, the unclear definitive of rules.


I believe the accusations of moderators abusing power to be absurd, all I see is people getting upset their in trouble for being uncivil or discussing things their not allowed to discuss.


As far as the unclear nature of the forum Rules, I do believe this is something that needs addressing, but I do not believe I have a right to have a say on what they are, as my opinion and position is bias to begin with.  With that stated, if such things were put to a vote, I believe myself and everyone included has a right to a say.

Your opinion offends me. 

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The report forum button could be exploited after the main CF launch though as @Surbear mentioned used as a weapon

politically against a faction or a certain alliance in-game for sure.


Although, CF is not even in pre-alpha stage and we had several well known forum guys banned already for CoC violation: Perhaps that was some of the forum people main concern - maybe it's too strict at the moment.. ..if you compare it to in-game hackers in other survivial games. 


Hopefully ACE have a strict anti-hacking policy in near future. 

Perhaps it's wise for ACE to pay backers if they discover severe in-game exploits or dupes as they do in Ark game at the moment.

Edited by mythx


Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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The fact that we can not openly discuss moderators or actions they have done is bad itself.

Don't think Ive been a part of an MMO forum or any game forums site that allows that. Can email or PM support or the mod team to discuss it but no for obvious reasons it shouldn't be open season to second guess and call out the pitchfork brigade for every thing that get moderated.

Edited by pang

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Don't think Ive been a part of an MMO forum or any game forums site that allows that. Can email or PM support or the mod team to discuss it but no for obvious reasons it shouldn't be open season to second guess and call out the pitchfork brigade for every thing that get moderated.


I've been on non-mmo forums that have allowed it and I've been on mmo forums where discussing moderation was a non-issue.


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Maybe I'm a minority, but I actually like this stance and part of the reason I was so drawn to the project to begin with:


"This game won't be for everyone, and we're OK with that"


While I haven't been actively digging through every thread, when I was there was way too much petty/personal comments. Which is why I mainly check out Dev comments/threads such as this one and a few topics that catch my eye that actually are on topic.


Seems to be maybe 50 people (probably being generous) that seem invested one way or another in the forum drama that has zero to do with the actual game in development. Most of this could take place on any forum on the internet and seems off topic to me.


50 out of 20k (hoping a few more join pre/post launch) isn't a lot of folks and probably only 200 or so that seem active in general.


While I believe it is smart to keep policies relevant and to make sure they are being upheld properly, I also believe a very small vocal minority shouldn't dictate things nor be coddled.


I get the whole hand that feeds view, but maybe if things were a bit different around here, it wouldn't only be ~200 people participating in the conversations.


I'm all for in-game drama and for out of game drama that relates directly to said game, but as we don't currently have one, seems most of this bickering is to prove who rules the roost and nothing more or basically the internet in a nutshell.


Popularity contests, over inflated egos, and best (worst) of all anonymity.


Hopefully after the upcoming revision of policies, people will get a decent idea of what is acceptable behavior and they can choose to play by the rules or not. Which goes back to the quote above. Someone has to be in charge and a hard stance should be maintained to keep uncertainty to a minimum.


Don't bite the hand that feeds, but realize that hand is currently being represented by a fingernail. Sometimes nails have to be ripped off to make room for a new one.

Edited by allein

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Lol, I'd say the fact that we don't have more activity is a worrisome sign. poorly made socks, those dozens of DF clans on the df clan list there that are quite huge and normally are very active on forums list forum policies as why they don't post. But that's a different topic for a different threads.

Edited by cannibal man

Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.


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Maybe I'm a minority, but I actually like this stance and part of the reason I was so drawn to the project to begin with:


"This game won't be for everyone, and we're OK with that"


While I haven't been actively digging through every thread, when I was there was way too much petty/personal comments. Which is why I mainly check out Dev comments/threads such as this one and a few topics that catch my eye that actually are on topic.


Seems to be maybe 50 people (probably being generous) that seem invested one way or another in the forum drama that has zero to do with the actual game in development. Most of this could take place on any forum on the internet and seems off topic to me.


50 out of 20k (hoping a few more join pre/post launch) isn't a lot of folks and probably only 200 or so that seem active in general.


While I believe it is smart to keep policies relevant and to make sure they are being upheld properly, I also believe a very small vocal minority shouldn't dictate things nor be coddled.


I get the whole hand that feeds view, but maybe if things were a bit different around here, it wouldn't only be ~200 people participating in the conversations.


I'm all for in-game drama and for out of game drama that relates directly to said game, but as we don't currently have one, seems most of this bickering is to prove who rules the roost and nothing more or basically the internet in a nutshell.


Popularity contests, over inflated egos, and best (worst) of all anonymity.


Hopefully after the upcoming revision of policies, people will get a decent idea of what is acceptable behavior and they can choose to play by the rules or not. Which goes back to the quote above. Someone has to be in charge and a hard stance should be maintained to keep uncertainty to a minimum.


Don't bite the hand that feeds, but realize that hand is currently being represented by a fingernail. Sometimes nails have to be ripped off to make room for a new one.


Horribly constructed argument. Needs more cliches. You bash popularity contests (trolls) and anonymity (anonymods) in the same sentence. Do you even know which side you're on?


You start out with "the game won't be for everyone" that's meaning gameplay, not forum behavior. You say you haven't been digging through every thread because there's mostly player comments. There's 20,000 registered users that are backers and 50 devs. Like you said, just follow the devtracker.


Your view is way off, not even pertinent to the topic at hand, and doesn't have anything relevant that was covered in this discussion. You think that if the forums was locked down more, that more than 200 people would be posting? Lol. Toxicity isn't keeping back the post count. A lack of a game, the hype train pulling in for repairs, intermission before alpha, moderation, and lastly, toxicity is the reason for post count (toxicity is last because if moderation > toxicity = less posting. can't post if you're counting those WP's).


Glad to hear we're being coddled. Text me next time so I know.

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This is my take. This is also being typed on a phone (I did get home and finish up though)... so please forgive or tear me a new unpleasant person for all typos.

You guys want constructive official forums. Awesome! I like constructive things too. I have posted many constructive posts here and I hope you all liked them! The problem I have is I don't see much discussion anymore, maybe one or two threads every few days outside of official postings that are worth discussing anything in. Even the official news and announcement threads are getting progressively less traffic than they used to. Why? Here are my thoughts:

The Community

This is a gaming community. I think we need to remember that. Gaming communities are built around a form of entertainment and entertainment is supposed to be fun. This is not a cancer support forum, a quit smoking forum or a religious group forum. Not all forums are built the same, and different communities need to be managed differently. This one feels all too corporate and I feel that really stifles the fun of a gaming community.

A number of folks have requested some reasonable changes to spark some life back into this place. It is time to relax rules in off-topic and create a guild/personal drama center (invite only or by accepting a waiver perhaps). If we can hooligan around in off-topic and build up some fun... excellent! You can have your nice, discussion filled main forums. They should be that way! Perhaps a little heated at times... but arguments within reason are important. Recognizing the extremes on both sides of that is important as well, however. Those that push boundaries and those who are quick to report and request correction are both extremes and are both detrimental to your discussion paradise. I look at how low the bar is set from a player like psyctooth on what he deems a personal attack and I fear for him. That is one extreme. I also see headlight posting insanely offensive pictures and pushing boundaries every now and again... I feel it adds some spice, but yes... he is on the extreme of pushing boundaries. As for myself, I consider myself in the middle... perhaps a little abrasive and I am okay with that! I have no warning points and I have only been warned once for something that was completely innocent and yet entirely my fault. Moderation recognized that and handled it appropriately. I have seen some very terrible things happen though that shouldn't, and because of that I fight for change in the community.

One thing I feel needs to change is the engagement of our community manager. I would love to hear exactly what Pann's role is supposed to be. Currently we are a very small community that is very inactive on the whole. I feel Pann, as a Community Manager, should be doing a lot more to build an inclusive environment for all and generating some buzz in the community. I find it strange that I hear more from one of the founders, Gordon, than I do from the person I would expect to be the community liaison. I don't see a community leader in Pann, in fact I don't really see any leadership qualities from her at all. She is not engaging or responsive. I honestly consider Gordon or Todd more the community managers just because of how willing they are to engage with the community. Perhaps engaging isn't in her job description though... if it isn't I suggest hiring someone to handle that role. Most community managers I have worked with or posted under in the past reach out to where their community is, even off official forums. Is Pann in our slack? No. Gordon, Todd and Tully are. Strange... maybe she just doesn't care about building a vibrant community. Perhaps this post is a catalyst for change. We can only hope! Still, even now... Pann has not responded to the thread, only Gordon. Just... ugh...

The Rules

I know you want to do a hard look and you want community input. This is a fantastic idea! Let's take a look shall we?

Be respectful and courteous
The Crowfall forum is a safe and constructive space to discuss Crowfall video game content and related items. In order to keep this a fun place for all community members, there are a few ground rules that must be followed for all methods of communication.

It is okay for users to disagree with one another, but opinions must be expressed in a reasonable and polite manner. It is important to maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect, so that all voices may be heard.

Communicate constructively
All communication, whether between players, moderators or ArtCraft, must be constructive. Posts without constructive commentary can distract from the topic at hand, reduce the visibility of valuable communication, and discourage others from participating in the conversation.

I wouldn't change a single word, just remember that there are some extreme opinions on what is negative and perhaps those sensitivities, while valid to them, should not be taken seriously. Please manage this reasonably. Sometimes things get a little heated. If you need to, expand on where the line is!

Off-Topic Commentary: Don’t post topics or replies unrelated to a thread. Posts like these are unlikely to be seen by the intended audience and can spawn non-productive discussions, as well as split otherwise useful discussions into multiple channels.

Do a better job understanding this. You cannot stay true to the original topic for twenty pages. Supportive side commentary is not off topic!

The spam one is fine.

Images: Posting single images or animated .gifs instead of engaging in discussion is not allowed. Images will be deleted and users may be banned for repeated offenses. Please note that using images to support your discussion is fine, as long as the images follow the forum rules (no adult content, defamation, racism, etc.).

Reasonable, but off-topic needs this for the fun factor!

Cross-posting is annoying. Keep this one.

Naming/Accusing: Openly accusing another player or group of misbehavior is not permitted. You may discuss the type of behavior at issue, but specifically naming individuals or groups is not appropriate. In cases of exploiting, harassment, or other violations of conduct, please use the report tool instead of engaging with the user.

This should go, and it is never enforced. People constantly drag on the entire slack group for whatever reason. I am cool with this. Everyone is more than welcome to call me an unproductive asshat because I am part of the slack group. I will sleep well knowing that isn't the case. If we aren't allowed to call out behavior then fine, but enforce it across the board.




  • Disrupting Official Threads: Do not post about other topics in official threads or use official threads as a platform to advance another agenda. These are created to gather feedback on specific issues or topics relevant to the Crowfall Forum.

  • Threatening Legal Action: Any player who feels the need to take legal action with regard to their experiences with Crowfall or its games should contact support@Crowfall.com directly. We do not allow such discussions to take place on the forums.

  • Advertising: Openly linking to non-gaming related subjects in threads and signatures is not permitted (with the exception of off-topic discussions). 

Sounds good.



Do not troll or make personal attacks

Trolling and attacking others, in any form, is not allowed. Trolling is posting with the intent to provoke an emotional response from another user.

Examples include:

  • Non-constructive feedback or comments.

  • Personal attacks: Do not insult, degrade or criticize any person or group of people. Personal attacks are hurtful and destroy useful discussion. Examples of personal attacks include calling someone stupid, saying "you suck," "I wish you would die," or "you should be fired."

  • Attacks on groups: Attacking groups of people, companies, or user locations, including, but not limited to, home countries, is prohibited.

  • Intolerance/Hate: Attacks specifically regarding race, politics, religion, or sexual orientation are grounds for immediate suspension or banning.

  • Excessive Reporting of Posts: Using the report tool to draw attention to a specific cause, individual, or to bypass a forum suspension or a ban is considered trolling, particularly if used frequently for this purpose.

  • Accusing Others of Trolling: Calling someone a troll to incite someone or falsely accusing them of trolling can also be a form of trolling.

If you feel someone is behaving in a manner that violates the rules, please use the report tool on the forums. Do not engage the person exhibiting these behaviors, as this is often the very response and attention they are looking for.


This again is a hard area to moderate. It needs more reflection, communication and an understanding that some people are far too sensitive. Please if you are going to moderate this, things need to be clear and you should communicate with the troll before taking any action. Personal attacks are often more clear than trolling, but still... keep in mind those super sensitivities... perhaps life isn't for them.


Do not reveal account information when discussing Customer Service interactions

Due to privacy concerns, Customer Service (CS) interactions should not contain sensitive account information. If discussing CS interactions, comments must be kept constructive, civil, and should not reveal personal or account information. Additionally, if a moderator or ArtCraft representative removes the post, you will be contacted.






Profanity is not allowed

The use of profanity is not allowed. Please be respectful of your fellow players, and do not use this sort of language. This includes intentionally working around the word filter or partially masking profanity by substituting characters or words. The intent will still be clear.


This is fine, the filters are more fun anyway.



Some actions can result in the immediate suspension of forum privileges

There are some actions severe enough to result in immediate temporary or permanent suspension of posting privileges without prior notification. Serious or sustained offenses may result in suspension of not only the user's forum account but game account as well.

Examples include:

  • Threats against anyone or any group.

  • Viruses, malware, worms, or Trojans.

  • Sexually explicit content.

  • Sharing personal information about ArtCraft volunteers, employees, or any other individuals.

  • Hate speech, including the degrading or vilifying of a particular race, religion, ethnic group, gender, sexual preference, or sexual identity, as well as any members of these groups.

  • Evading suspension through account hopping.

  • Impersonation of an ArtCraft employee or community member.

  • Promoting or linking to exploits, cheating programs, piracy, or any sort of illegal activity

Serious violations of these rules may result in further steps taken with your Internet Service Provider (ISP), Law Enforcement, or required authorities or agencies.


If I were king for a day, as Gordon put it, this would be the only thing I would moderate. This list is classic needs moderation and I agree 100% with any actions taken against these.



Abide by moderator and ArtCraft employee instructions

If you disagree with a moderator or employee's actions, do not discuss or challenge the matter in forum posts. Send an e-mail to support@Crowfall.com, and be sure to include your forum handle and game name, but NOT your password, and clearly state your concerns

IMPORTANT: Forum content is moderated at ArtCraft’s sole discretion, and content may be modified, removed, or otherwise restricted by ArtCraft employees and/or moderators.



Yes, you should abide by these and there are appropriate methods to challenge. My only problem is with the last bit though... It should be a requirement that anytime content is edited or removed that the moderator or ACE employee let the individual know why. I have had numerous posts deleted... and strangely restored later... without any word from anyone. That to me is just baffling.


Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the forum and forum rules. I really do appreciate the work you have done Gordon in trying to undo some of the damage over the last few months. Why you are the one stepping in to fix this and not Pann is beyond me. I know she made the post, but you must be the one directing it.

Edited by Adall

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Wow.  Take a day off from the forums and look what happens.    Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing ( it almost seems like bait, but hey, I have been sensitized by all the bait these days)  but I applaud Headlight and the others for their candid responses to tyrant and his apparent willingness to at least read what community members have to say.  It is definately a step in the right direction.


I am going to preface this with saying I have NO WP ( nor have I ever had one, nor intend to ) and I come from that "other" game but  don't subscribe to rainbows and unicorns and yes men and was very much looking forward to an more or less adult thinking community.   Sure we all here seem to have had our differences....but for them most part it settled, we were becoming a community, I thought.  Then the Doc thing happened.  Not going into details, ya'll know or think you know.  Doesn't matter any more I guess.   The point is, at that point, things began it change.  Maybe for a variety of reasons.  Maybe they were more lax during KS'er cuz money?  Maybe there was a change in the captain of the ship and her being hit with so many things at once, or maybe Doc kind of held both sides , all sides of the community together in only the way Doc could.  But, that being said , it began to fall apart.   Slowly at first, then more rapidly.  To the point where even given my post count and lack of ever having a warning I fear each time I post that "this" will be the time.  I see community members falling, one after another, and wonder why.  And what comes to mind is a quote of Todds from couple  of his more memorable posts #1 " Where did we go wrong?"   ( and by we I mean all of us, devs and community members , inclusive) and #2 "it almost worked".    We seemed to be going in what, imo, WAS the right direction.  Now, I just don't know. 


I have no issue with the RoC really.   Other than they appear to not be being used fairly and equally but rather in a manner to "trap" certain members.  I picture "certain" community members having the RoC pulled up at all times waiting to see if they can "use" it against that "certain" other poster that they dislike ( ya know, the one that looks at your profile omg, the one that likes PvP too much, the one that isn't crazy about the EK and voices it ) and then hit the report button.  Trolling comes in all forms and it seems the passive aggressive kind is being ignored and actually encouraged.  Not sure how it should be handled but I good start would be for the CM to have an awareness of it and know that just because some come from a less aggressive game does not mean their tactics and passive aggressiveness are any less toxic.  In some cases it is far worse.


I want Crowfall to succeed.  I want it to be the "game"  we all finally want to play, have to play, can't wait to play.  But unless things "change"  I can't see many of us "first day" people left to play it.  We seem to be a dying breed.  


We need fair, equal w/o bias across the board moderating from the moderation staff.   

Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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I've never really understood what everyone is always fighting about, but I think that making these forums more PvP-y would make them a lot more fun.


Maybe give us a PvP subforum, and every time someone likes your post you get a gold coin. Everyone also gets forum hitpoints, and the ability to attack posts (with a cooldown and cost in gold of course!). If enough people attack a post, it gets hidden, and the poster loses hitpoints. If they lose enough, then they gotta wait to respawn and can't post for a while. Threads would be much tougher to kill, and you'd have to spend a whole bunch to siege them.


Thanks for reading my idea on improving the community.

Edited by Hi!



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Ok I took this entire ToS from a popular video game company and adapted it to our needs please enjoy:THIS IS JUST A SAMPLE MOCK UP FOR ILLISTRATION I AM IN NO WAY SMART





Crowfall is offered to you conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms, conditions, and notices contained herein (collectively, these “Terms”). Your download, install or use of any of Crowfall constitutes your agreement to all such terms, conditions, and notices. By registering with us or using or browsing www.Crowfall.com, you acknowledge that you have read, understood, and agree to be bound by these terms and conditions. If you do not agree to these Terms, please stop using the Crowfall Services. Your use of Crowfall Services is also subject to the Crowfall Privacy Statement, which is incorporated by reference into these Terms. The Crowfall forums may also contain additional terms that govern particular features or offers (for example, PvP Chat or sweepstakes/giveaway's) ("Additional Terms").



In the event that any of the terms, conditions, and notices contained herein conflict with the Additional Terms or other terms and guidelines contained within the Crowfall Services, then these Terms shall control.





Crowfall Services are not directed to children younger than 16 and are offered only to users 16 years of age or older. If you are under 16 years old, please do not use the Crowfall Services. Any person who provides their personal information through the Crowfall Services represents to us that they are 16 years of age or older. You hereby represent that you are fully able and competent to enter into the terms, conditions, obligations, representations and warranties set forth in these Terms. If you are using the Crowfall Services as a representative of a company or legal entity, (i) you represent that you have the authority to enter into these Terms on behalf of that company or entity, and (ii) you agree that the terms "you" and "your" in these Terms refers to your company or legal entity.








Unless otherwise specified, the Crowfall Services are for your personal and non-commercial use. Except as expressly provided in these Terms, you may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Crowfall Services.








The Crowfall Services may contain links or functionality that use or point to other Web Sites or services ("Third Party Services"). The Third Party Services are not under the control of Crowfall and Crowfall is not responsible for the contents of any Third Party Service, including without limitation any link contained in a Third Party Service, or any changes or updates to a Third Party Service. Crowfall is not responsible for webcasting or any other form of transmission received from any Third Party Service. Crowfall is providing these links to you only as a convenience, and the inclusion of any link does not imply endorsement by Crowfall of the site or any association with its operators.








As a condition of your use of the Crowfall Services you warrant to Artcraft that you will not use the Crowfall Services for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by these terms, conditions, and notices. If you connect to your Crowfall account or otherwise access the Crowfall Services through a Third Party Service, you warrant to Artcraft that you are in full compliance with all terms and conditions governing your use of such Third Party Service. You may not use the Crowfall Services in any manner which could damage, disable, overburden, or impair the Crowfall Services. You may not obtain or attempt to obtain any materials or information through any means not intentionally made available or provided for through the Crowfall Services.








The Crowfall Services may contain bulletin board services, chat areas, news groups, forums, communities, personal web pages, calendars, and/or other message or communication facilities designed to enable you to communicate with the public at large or with a group (collectively, "Communication Services"), you agree to use the Communication Services only to post, send and receive messages and material that are related to the particular Communication Service. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using a Communication Service, you will not:



Stalk or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy) of others.




Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any obscene, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information.



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Upload files that contain viruses, corrupted files, or any other similar software or programs that may damage the operation of another's computer.




Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically allows such messages.




Conduct or forward surveys, contests, pyramid schemes or chain letters.



Download any file posted by another user of a Communication Service that you know, or reasonably should know, cannot be legally distributed in such manner.



Falsify or delete any author attributions, legal or other proper notices or proprietary designations or labels of the origin or source of software or other material contained in a file that is uploaded.




Restrict or inhibit any other user from using the Communication Services.



Harvest or otherwise collect information about others, including e-mail addresses, without their consent.



Violate any applicable laws or regulations.


Artcraft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Artcraft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Artcraft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever.



Artcraft reserves the right at all times to disclose any information as necessary to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or governmental request, or to edit, refuse to post or to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in Artcraft's sole discretion.



Always use caution when giving out any personally identifying information about yourself or your children in any Communication Service. Artcraft does not control or endorse the content, messages or information found in any Communication Service and, therefore, Artcraft specifically disclaims any liability with regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from your participation in any Communication Service. Managers and hosts are not authorized Artcraft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Artcraft.



Materials uploaded to a Communication Service may be subject to posted limitations on usage, reproduction and/or dissemination. You are responsible for adhering to such limitations if you download the materials.



Additionally, by using the Crowfall Services you agree to comply with the Crowfall Code of Conduct, which is incorporated by reference into these Terms.






Artcraft does not claim ownership of the images, video, text, or other materials you provide to Crowfall (including feedback and suggestions) or post, upload, input or submit to any Crowfall Service or associated services (collectively "Submissions"), to the extent what you post does not include materials provided to you or otherwise owned by Artcraft or its licensees. However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting your Submission you hereby grant Artcraft, its affiliated companies and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, perform and otherwise use your Submissions in connection with the Crowfall Services and Artcraft (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including, without limitation, distributing your Submissions in all current and future media in which the Crowfall Services may now or hereafter be distributed or transmitted and to publish your name in connection with your Submission. This license grant will survive any expiration or termination of these Terms.



No compensation will be paid with respect to the use of your Submission. Artcraft is under no obligation to post or use any Submission you may provide and may remove any Submission at any time.



By posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting your Submission you warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to your Submission as described in this section including, without limitation, all the rights necessary for you to provide, post, upload, input or submit the Submission (excluding materials provided to you by Crowfall for the purpose of making your Submission).






You may have the opportunity to use virtual, in-game or in-app currency ("Virtual Currency") or license a variety of virtual, in-game or in-app items ("Virtual Items") that can be used through the Crowfall Mobile App or Crowfall games. You may be required to pay a fee to obtain Virtual Items or Virtual Currency. You have no property interest in any Virtual Currency or Virtual Items. Any purchases of Virtual Currency or Virtual Items (whether through actual monetary transactions or accumulation through membership benefits or gameplay) are purchases of a limited, non-transferable, revocable license to use such Virtual Items or Virtual Currency within the applicable Crowfall Mobile App or Crowfall game. Virtual Currency and Virtual Items may not be transferred or resold for commercial gain in any manner, including, without limitation, by means of any direct sale or auction service. Virtual Currency and Virtual Items have no monetary value, and cannot be used to use products or services other than within the applicable Crowfall Mobile App or Crowfall game. Virtual Currency and Virtual Items cannot be refunded or exchanged for cash or any other tangible value. If you do not redeem your Virtual Currency or Virtual Items, so long as your Crowfall account remains active and in good standing, you will be offered an opportunity to convert any unused Virtual Currency or Virtual Items into one or more in-game or other options determined by Artcraft in its sole discretion. All Virtual Currency and Virtual Items are unconditionally forfeited if your Crowfall account is terminated or suspended for any reason, in Crowfall’s sole discretion, or if Artcraft discontinues any Virtual Currency or Virtual Item program. Artcraft has no liability for hacking or loss of your Virtual Currency or Virtual Items. Artcraft has no obligation to, and will not, reimburse you for any Virtual Currency or Virtual Items lost due to your violation of these terms and conditions. Artcraft reserves the right, without prior notification, to limit the order quantity on any Virtual Currency or Virtual Items and/or to refuse to provide you with any Virtual Currency or Virtual Items. Price and availability of Virtual Currency and Virtual Items are subject to change without notice.






In order to access some features of the Crowfall Services, you will have to create an account. You agree that the information you provide to Artcraft upon registration and, at all other times, will be true, accurate, current, and complete. You also agree that you will ensure that this information is kept accurate and up-to-date at all times. You agree that Artcraft may access, preserve and disclose your account information if required to do so by law or in a good faith belief that such access preservation or disclosure is reasonably necessary to (a) comply with legal process; ( B) enforce the Terms; © respond to a claim that any Submission violates the rights of third parties; (d) to respond to your requests for customer service; or (e) protect the rights, property or personal safety of Artcraft, its users and the public. When you register you will be asked to provide a password. As you will be responsible for all activities that occur under your password, you should keep your password confidential. You are solely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your account password and for restricting access to your computer, and you agree to accept responsibility for all activities that occur under your account. If you have reason to believe that your account is no longer secure (for example, in the event of a loss, theft or unauthorized disclosure or use of your account ID or password), you will immediately notify Artcraft at support@artcraftent.com. You may be liable for the losses incurred by Artcraft or others due to any unauthorized use of your account. You may use Facebook Connect to connect the Crowfall Services with Facebook using your Facebook username and password to access some features of the Crowfall Services. Your use of Facebook is governed by the Facebook Terms of Use and Facebook shall be considered a Third Party Service hereunder.






Software (if any) that is made available to download from the Crowfall Web Sites, excluding software that may be made available by end-users through a Communication Service, ("Software") is the copyrighted work of Artcraft and/or its suppliers and publishers. Your use of the Software is governed by the terms of the end user license agreement, if any, which accompanies or is included with the Software ("License Agreement"). You may not install or use any Software that is accompanied by or includes a License Agreement unless you first agree to the License Agreement terms. For any Software not accompanied by a license agreement, Artcraft hereby grants to you, the user, a personal, noncommercial, non-transferable license to use the Software for viewing and otherwise using the particular Crowfall Web Sites in accordance with these Terms, and for no other purpose provided that you keep intact all copyright and other proprietary notices. All Software is owned by Artcraft and/or its suppliers and publishers and is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Any reproduction or redistribution of the Software is expressly prohibited by law, and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties. Violators will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, COPYING OR REPRODUCTION OF THE SOFTWARE TO ANY OTHER SERVER OR LOCATION FOR FURTHER REPRODUCTION OR REDISTRIBUTION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED. THE SOFTWARE IS WARRANTED, IF AT ALL, ONLY ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF THE LICENSE AGREEMENT. You acknowledge that the Software, and any accompanying documentation and/or technical information, is subject to applicable export control laws and regulations of the USA. You agree not to export or re-export the Software, directly or indirectly, to any countries, individuals or organizations that are subject to USA export restrictions.






Your use of our data and content must be non-commercial, unless you obtain Artcraft’s prior written permission. That means you don't own our stuff, so you can't sell it, use it to sell other things, or give other people permission to use it. The license that we grant to you only covers the things that we create: the “Crowfall Content” (as defined below). If we have a license to use someone else’s music or art, we can’t extend it to you, so you’ll have to reach out to them for permission.



We ask that you put some time and effort into your content. Make it your own. Don't just upload a copy of our video and slap ads on it. We don't slap ads on our own stuff. If you do that, we reserve the right to have the content removed and send you a nasty letter.



In fact, we can change this policy, or order you to stop sharing our content for any reason, at any time without warning, even if we have previously given you permission. We have a hard time imagining why we’d do that, but we reserve the right.



All of your use of the Crowfall Content must comply with these Terms and the Content Usage Rules (as defined below).



You may use game footage, screenshots, and other elements of Crowfall games that are owned by Crowfall (“Crowfall Content”) to create your own content (“Your Content”) provided that you must comply with these Terms and all of the following restrictions (the “Content Usage Rules”):



You must not use Crowfall Content to create any infringing, threatening, libelous, obscene, or otherwise unlawful or tortious material.






You must not sell or earn any revenue or other compensation from Your Content, including any advertising revenue or subscription revenue.





You must not post Your Content or Crowfall Content on any page that is used to sell products or services or use Your Content or Crowfall Content in apps that are distributed for a fee, or in which fees are collected (e.g., “freemium apps”) or advertising revenue is received.





You must not use the Artcraft name in the title of Your Content.





You must not grant anyone else an exclusive license to distribute Your Content.





Your Content must not infringe any intellectual property rights, violate any person’s rights (such as right to privacy), or misappropriate any person’s intellectual property.





You can use Your Content on a page on which you make a donations request.





You can use Your Content to enter a contest so long as the contest organizers comply with the Content Usage Rules.





Anyone else who uses Your Content must follow the Content Usage Rules.



You must obtain Artcraft’s prior written permission for any use of Crowfall Content or Your Content not in accordance with the Content Usage Rules. If you don’t obtain Artcraft’s prior written permission and you violate any of the Content Usage Rules, your license to use the Crowfall Content will terminate automatically.



If you share Your Content with anyone else, (a) you grant to Artcraft a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, sub-licensable, transferable license to Artcraft and its assigns to use, create derivative works of, distribute, display and perform Your Content and to use your name if Artcraft chooses in connection with Your Content, in each case, without paying any compensation to you, and ( B) you must include the following notice about the Crowfall Content with Your Content, whether in a README file, on the appropriate web page, or anywhere else that makes sense so that users of Your Content see the notice:






“©ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. Crowfall, and the Crowfall Logo are among the trademarks of ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.”






Your correspondence or business dealings with, or participation in promotions of, advertisers found on or through the Crowfall Services are solely between you and such advertiser. YOU AGREE THAT ARTCRAFT WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY SORT INCURRED AS THE RESULT OF ANY SUCH DEALINGS OR AS THE RESULT OF THE PRESENCE OF SUCH ADVERTISERS ON THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE.






You agree to indemnify and hold harmless Artcraft, and its parent, subsidiaries, affiliates, suppliers, licensors and partners, and the officers, directors, employees, agents and representatives of any of them from any and all claims, losses, obligations, damages, liabilities, costs or debt and expenses (including attorney’s fees) arising out of (i) your use or misuse of any of the Crowfall Services; (ii) your Submissions, including Artcraft’s use, display or other exercise of rights granted herein with respect to your Submissions; (iii) your violation of these Terms; (iv) your violation of the rights of any other person or entity, including claims that any Submission infringes or violates any third party intellectual property rights; and (v) your breach of the representations, warranties, and covenants herein. Artcraft reserves the right, at your expense, to assume the exclusive defense and control of any matter for which you are required to indemnify us and you agree to cooperate with our defense of these claims. You agree not to settle any matter without the prior written consent of Artcraft. Artcraft will use reasonable efforts to notify you of any such claim, action or proceeding upon becoming aware of it.


















ArtCraft reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate your access to any or all Crowfall Services and the related services or any portion thereof at any time, without notice.






You are solely responsible for your involvement with other users of the Crowfall Services. If you have a dispute with one or more users, you release Artcraft (and Artcraft's's parent, subsidiaries, Affiliates, officers, directors, agents, joint ventures and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes.






You may from time to time choose, in your sole discretion, to provide suggestions, comments, improvements, ideas, recommendations or other feedback or materials to us related to the Crowfall Services or our other products and services, including, without limitation, through any Crowfall Service, or in connection with surveys or on third party sites, including, without limitation, Facebook and Twitter ("Feedback"). If you choose to provide us any such Feedback, you hereby grant Artcraft a nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, sublicensable, royalty free, fully paid up license to use such Feedback in any manner without restriction, and without any obligation of confidentiality, attribution or compensation to you.






These Terms are governed by the laws of the State of Texas, U.S.A. You hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of courts in ? County, Texas, U.S.A. in all disputes arising out of or relating to the use of the Crowfall Services. You agree that no joint venture, partnership, employment, or agency relationship exists between you and Bungie as a result of these Terms or use of the Bungie Services. Bungie’s performance of these Terms is subject to existing laws and legal process, and nothing contained in these Terms is in derogation of Bungie’s right to comply with governmental, court and law enforcement requests or requirements relating to your use of the Crowfall Services or information provided to or gathered by Artcraft with respect to such use. If any part of these Terms is determined to be invalid or unenforceable pursuant to applicable law including, but not limited to, the warranty disclaimers and liability limitations set forth above, then the invalid or unenforceable provision will be deemed superseded by a valid, enforceable provision that most closely matches the intent of the original provision and the remainder of the agreement shall continue in effect. Unless otherwise specified herein, these Terms constitute the entire agreement between you and Artcraft with respect to the Crowfall Services and it supersedes all prior or contemporaneous communications and proposals, whether electronic, oral or written, between the user and Artcraft with respect to the Crowfall Services. A printed version of these Terms and of any notice given in electronic form shall be admissible in judicial or administrative proceedings based upon or relating to these Terms to the same extent and subject to the same conditions as other business documents and records originally generated and maintained in printed form.






All contents of the Crowfall Services, Software or Mobile Apps are: Copyright © Artcraft Inc. and/or its suppliers. All rights reserved.






Artcraft, Crowfall and/or other related products referenced herein are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artcraft Inc. or its suppliers. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.



The example companies, organizations, products, people and events depicted herein are fictitious. No association with any real company, organization, product, person, or event is intended or should be inferred.

Any rights not expressly granted herein are reserved.






Pursuant to Title 17, United States Code, Section 512©(2), notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to Service Provider's Designated Agent. ALL INQUIRIES NOT RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE WILL RECEIVE NO RESPONSE. If you believe that your work has been posted on a Bungie Web Site in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please contact Bungie at the address below and provide the following information: (1) an electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; (2) a description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed, and identification of the URL or other specific location on the Site where the material that you claim is infringing is located; (3) your address, telephone number, and email address; (4) a statement by you that you have a good faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; and (5) a statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner’s behalf.



Artcraft’s designated agent for notice of copyright infringement can be reached at:






The terms, conditions and notices governing the Crowfall Services, Crowfall Mobile Apps and Software are drafted in the English language and, in the event of any conflict between the English language version of these terms, conditions and notices and any translation hereof, the English language version will govern.

Edited by KRIPTIK


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It's going to impossible for me to read through this entire thread.... but from what I've been able to gather here is the one thought on the top of my mind:


1) Community volunteer mods create a huge trust gap between devs and community.  If an issue was caused by an employee the environment on forums is always exacerbated when a community uses volunteer mods.  So even if volunteer mods weren't directly responsible their presence puts a community on the edge.  All game communities I've been apart of this has been true.


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