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Handies

Why do people think they can fix "toxicity"?

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Right but there are things you can do to discourage people from being d*ckholes. For example, in old WoW before cross-realm dungeons, notorious trolls and ninja-looters would be basically blacklisted on the server and nobody would group with them anymore. Because levelling a new character was arduous, and you couldn't change your character name, you were stuck with your reputation no matter what.

Nowadays you mostly play with people from other realms who will never see you again, so it doesn't make a difference if you act like a pr*ck or not.

 

There are ways of dealing with idiots better than the banhammer, namely, make it so that your community has the tools to ostracise unpleasant players if they wish.

 

You mean like a Banestone?....

 

Eventually the community will regulate and police itself.. when people start getting loud it will usually mean that they are in a big guild and are well protected.. meaning that the louder they get the more enemies they will tend to create.


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I agree that the forums are also apart of PvP. Animosity leads to higher quality and quantity PvP.

 

Not sure that is true.  Crowfall, if it is well-designed as it seems to be, should give plenty to fight over without needing to gin things up on the boards.  Also, since there are recurring campaigns where today's ally could be tomorrow's enemy and vice versa, who benefits from creating RL animosity and permanent enemies?  I think there will be board warrioring....but it won't be like other games.  

Edited by cemya

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Not sure that is true.  Crowfall, if it is well-designed as it seems to be, should give plenty to fight over without needing to gin things up on the boards.  Also, since there are recurring campaigns where today's ally could be tomorrow's enemy and vice versa, who benefits from creating RL animosity and permanent enemies?  I think there will be board warrioring....but it won't be like other games.  

I just think the forums add an additional factor to it. And I'm 100% behind, if people don't get along, there's more PvP. I don't think it's RL animosity, nor do I believe it tends to be permanent. But the animosity brings in the emotional side that friendly PvP does not. Yes friendly PvP exists and it can be good, but when groups go at it that actually dislike each other for various reasons, PvP tends to be more fun.


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You surely cant change humanity, but we aint talking about changing toxicity on 6 bil scale.Toxicity can be removed or reduced to minimum withing small society group like for example society of crowfall game. There is no argue that pvp games are very fertile grounds for toxic players but that doesnt mean we shouldnt put effort into making our society enjoyable to play and be a part of.

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Toxicity?

 

Isnt that the thing that waste disposal people do?

 

If you have issues with how its being managed and how its polluting the environment, lobby your congressman! It's not too late for a healthier and cleaner environment for our children! :)

 

It can be fixed, as long as you believe in yourself. But we must take action!

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No government or religion has ever been able to change human nature. No leader or god has ever been able to change human nature. No law or holy book has ever been able to change human nature. Yet people think reporting and banning people in a  game is somehow going to change human nature and that "toxicity" will disappear.

 

Right, this is why we've gotten rid of all government because you can't make humans get along!  It's just been death and chaos and everyone being poorly made socks to each other since the dawn of time, and since that's never been improved at all, we should all just give up on ever trying to improve things.  Good plan!

 

 

You can not have a pvp game while trying to stack rules upon it. 

 

Clearly someone should let the myriad of famous player-vs-player games know that their games don't exist because they have rules against being a hooligan.

 

 

Here is some honest to god advice for both gaming and dealing with reality. Get over it. Seriously, get over your whining and crying. Adapt and toughen up or you will always be considered a joke. Adapt and toughen up so you can actually deal with reality instead of trying to hide from it. Your real life and gaming life will improve 100 fold. You will literally be a happier and more satisfied human being.

 

Man, if only everyone had you before, we all could have avoided all our silly rules.  Crazy to think that all this time humanity has been generally punishing people who are sockheads when all along Handies could have just let them know it was pointless.

 

Here's an interesting idea you've given me Handies.  Maybe people can "get over it," as you say and quit bitching about a bunch of development oriented forums for a day and a half.  Maybe people can "adapt and toughen up" instead of "whining and crying."  Your amazing lesson to us can first be applied to yourself, and then hopefully we can all learn from your example.

 

 

 

 

The non-sarcastic version: If you think the inability to be a sockhead to people is going to prevent you from experiencing true competition, or in any way hinder the player-vs-player aspect of this game, maybe you should consider opening a dictionary to "sportsmanship."  I know, it's crazy, comparing games and sports, but I find it sad to think that adults all over the world can be respectful while also competing, even among deep rivalries, but a bunch of internet junkies seem so unable to even grasp the concept that maybe, just maybe, life can go on with just a little bit of respect.

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And the sad thing is that if PvP wasn't so toxic, it wouldn't have nearly the bad reputation it has, and there would be a LOT more people willing to play. Which of course means.... more pvp! Which should be considered a good thing to those who love pvp. But there lies the twist: the 'hardcore' pvp group oftentimes assume that trash talk (and not just the 'yo momma!' stuff), insults, degradation, and even harassment is what *makes* it "hardcore". So, the fact that a minuscule number of players are willing to regularly engage in this sort of gameplay lies directly on the heads of those who spread that kind of abuse around. They did it to themselves. So all the whining about how few games put in good pvp system is a direct result of what they do. 

 

I would love to have a solid pvp game out that let's me compete against others and in cooperation with my team, but I can't be bothered to deal with the asshats. I don't think developer-sponsored rules and such will matter. The best way to minimize this sort of anti-social behavior is to remove the anonymity of the internet.


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And the sad thing is that if PvP wasn't so toxic, it wouldn't have nearly the bad reputation it has, and there would be a LOT more people willing to play. Which of course means.... more pvp! Which should be considered a good thing to those who love pvp. But there lies the twist: the 'hardcore' pvp group oftentimes assume that trash talk (and not just the 'yo momma!' stuff), insults, degradation, and even harassment is what *makes* it "hardcore". So, the fact that a minuscule number of players are willing to regularly engage in this sort of gameplay lies directly on the heads of those who spread that kind of abuse around. They did it to themselves. So all the whining about how few games put in good pvp system is a direct result of what they do.

 

I would love to have a solid pvp game out that let's me compete against others and in cooperation with my team, but I can't be bothered to deal with the asshats. I don't think developer-sponsored rules and such will matter. The best way to minimize this sort of anti-social behavior is to remove the anonymity of the internet.

I feel like you are generalising and lumping most people that like pvp into one group.

I would like to be excluded from that please.


 

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And the sad thing is that if PvP wasn't so toxic, it wouldn't have nearly the bad reputation it has, and there would be a LOT more people willing to play. Which of course means.... more pvp! Which should be considered a good thing to those who love pvp. But there lies the twist: the 'hardcore' pvp group oftentimes assume that trash talk (and not just the 'yo momma!' stuff), insults, degradation, and even harassment is what *makes* it "hardcore". So, the fact that a minuscule number of players are willing to regularly engage in this sort of gameplay lies directly on the heads of those who spread that kind of abuse around. They did it to themselves. So all the whining about how few games put in good pvp system is a direct result of what they do. 

 

I would love to have a solid pvp game out that let's me compete against others and in cooperation with my team, but I can't be bothered to deal with the asshats. I don't think developer-sponsored rules and such will matter. The best way to minimize this sort of anti-social behavior is to remove the anonymity of the internet.

 

Eh, pretty sure it's still the extremely vocal minority.  I may think this topic is ridiculous, but I wouldn't go saying that somehow PvP draws out all the worst in humanity.  There's millions of people who just want to play and compete.

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I've been playing PVP games for years.  The only way to remove toxicity in a PVP environment is to remove PVP.   By definition Player-Vs-Player will create a toxic environment.  I've witnessed time and again a complete lack of honor and fairness in every single PVP environment I've ever participated in.  Fellow gamers will suicide to cheat you out of any gain.  Exploit any cheat to gain an advantage.  Resort to any cheap skill, tactic, or method to "win".

 

The only way is to not play PVP.

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You can't fix it but you can definitely mitigate it. Most games punish the toxic players... how about if you reward the helpful player and also punish the toxic players. That way people will be motivated to be a nice guy instead of a toxic player.

 

The only reason why people like to be mean is "because of the lols". So if you give a better reward to the nice guys, people will tend to stop being mean players.


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Eh, pretty sure it's still the extremely vocal minority.  I may think this topic is ridiculous, but I wouldn't go saying that somehow PvP draws out all the worst in humanity.  There's millions of people who just want to play and compete.

Yeah been playing these games since EQ and think I have met just as many toxic people on the PvE raiding side as i have on the PvP side. Might be able to say PvPrs might be louder or just more openly passionate about their playstyle but no its not fair at all to say the playstyle attracts bad people.

Edited by pang

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I've been playing PVP games for years.  The only way to remove toxicity in a PVP environment is to remove PVP.   By definition Player-Vs-Player will create a toxic environment.  I've witnessed time and again a complete lack of honor and fairness in every single PVP environment I've ever participated in.  Fellow gamers will suicide to cheat you out of any gain.  Exploit any cheat to gain an advantage.  Resort to any cheap skill, tactic, or method to "win".

 

The only way is to not play PVP.

Ok.  Fair opinion.   With that said, and I am asking this sincerely, why are you here?  You know that CF is Pvpcentric.  You know that many that have pledged/backed are from a gaming background that you yourself may have come from.  Do you hope CF will be different ?  If you do, how?   Or you believe the PvP element will be reduced from now going forward to launch?  Maybe eliminated?  Or are you just going to "play" the EK's and hope this turns into a PvE game?   The PvP element drew me in personally...............I sometimes wonder why players that seem to dislike it ( and/or the people that love it ) are here.  


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I think the amount to which people get incensed by PvP is dependent on the ratio of risk vs. reward, whether trash talking is involved or not, though that type of behavior adds the literal insult to injury.  In PvP games with high risk (harsh death penalties, loss of progress, long downtime, etc,.), there tends to be greater animosity towards the winners, and in games where the blow of losing is softened then PvP becomes more of a sport, not in the "esport" competitive sense which falls firmly in the first category of higher risk/reward, but more inline with friendly competition.  I think ACE is smart to have campaigns with varying degrees of Risk vs Reward which will hopefully allow all PvPers to find a level at which they are comfortable competing without stressing over every set back. 

Edited by Gilgamer

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And the sad thing is that if PvP wasn't so toxic, it wouldn't have nearly the bad reputation it has, and there would be a LOT more people willing to play. Which of course means.... more pvp! Which should be considered a good thing to those who love pvp. But there lies the twist: the 'hardcore' pvp group oftentimes assume that trash talk (and not just the 'yo momma!' stuff), insults, degradation, and even harassment is what *makes* it "hardcore". So, the fact that a minuscule number of players are willing to regularly engage in this sort of gameplay lies directly on the heads of those who spread that kind of abuse around. They did it to themselves. So all the whining about how few games put in good pvp system is a direct result of what they do. 

 

I would love to have a solid pvp game out that let's me compete against others and in cooperation with my team, but I can't be bothered to deal with the asshats. I don't think developer-sponsored rules and such will matter. The best way to minimize this sort of anti-social behavior is to remove the anonymity of the internet.

 

Is it so hard to ignore people?


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I've been playing PVP games for years.  The only way to remove toxicity in a PVP environment is to remove PVP.   By definition Player-Vs-Player will create a toxic environment.  I've witnessed time and again a complete lack of honor and fairness in every single PVP environment I've ever participated in.  Fellow gamers will suicide to cheat you out of any gain.  Exploit any cheat to gain an advantage.  Resort to any cheap skill, tactic, or method to "win".

 

The only way is to not play PVP.

I always lol at people talking about honor in a video game.


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I always lol at people talking about honor in a video game.

I don't expect it, but honor is a human quality so it CAN exist in all human activities including video games.  


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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