Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Saedrenel

Combat Mechanics

Recommended Posts

I've been keeping up with the physics systems, the combat chats, reading the FAQ, and searching for topics, but overall this is a concern I can't really find a recent thread for.

I know the dev team used "TERA" as a basic explanation for the combo-like combat in the game, and TERA had some cool mechanics, but it also leaves questions about how combat flows in Crowfall.

The exclusion of a devoted healer class is fantastic and flawless; it takes a strong note from other action-MMOs that a dedicated healer class is completely detrimental to gameplay experience because the tactics boil down to one thing. That is, the healer dies, everyone dies, and it hinders tactical variance.

My questions boil down to the following.
1. Will Crowfall be utilizing true hitstun, or a designated stagger/interrupt, hard CC, and knockdown/knockup system like what TERA utilized?
--A good example for an action MMO with true hitstun would be C9 (almost all abilities caused a flinch, with some abilities having much longer periods of lockdown), but most classes in that game require clean execution of many, many, MANY skills and commands, which the Crowfall devs have communicated they would prefer to avoid.

2. Aerial combat?
--This is not meant to mean "mounted" or "flying" combat. The devs have discussed their desire to include mobility options like sprinting, double jumping, etc. Can we expect skills to reflect these mobility options, such as having an assassin jumping around the battle, using attacks from the air like dagger throws, using your opponents heads as a springboard, or even just a simple kick or slash while jumping?

--In the case of an affirmative answer, can we expect to see some cool things like an archer jumping into the air to get a shot in at some of the more squishy supporting players in larger battles, maybe with something like a brief air-brake?

3. Iframes, super armor, semi-super armor?
--I saw in the 'no-phake physics' video that there were plans to implement invincibility frames with a number of abilities, however something that was not addressed were super armor frames; frames that you can take full damage but not be interrupted, or semi-super armor frames, where you can be interrupted by only harder-hitting or CC-inflicting abilities.

This is all I can think of for now, however I really want to discuss this further.

Edit:
I remembered some more advanced things I'd forgotten to mention. Sometimes implemented in tandem with true hitstun are:
--Abilities that bypass iframes as a form of counterplay and control, usually inflicting hitstun to break the animation (though such attacks are usually still stopped by super-armor).
--Iframe splices (which should probably be avoided) which is a technique that involves animation-cancelling an iframe ability leading directly into another iframe ability, though this is mostly used in games with true hitstun like fighting games (and very prevalent in C9)
--A 15-20 second cooldown combo break, usually implemented as a counter-hit or evasive dash of some manner meant to stop heavy comboing/juggling by other players; short enough to safely disengage most combos, but long enough to allow heavy punishment after its use in PvP

Edited by Saedrenel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only know the term hyper-armor... which game uses super-armor? just curious

 

 

for your questions:

1. I hope they don't go the heavy CC route. There have been a few threads already that suggest cc that alters vision and so on.

I'm fine with slows, knockups that still let you perform actions, pulls and so on. But all CCs should have counters; readily available ones that is.

Hard stuns, knockdowns, sleeps and so on are just utter nonsense imo

 

2. We probably wont see people ninja-flippin, summer-saultin and whatnot. Don't get your hopes up.

 

3. Way too specific. They talked about i-frames, but we have no idea whether we'll even have interrupts/staggers, so talking about hyper-armor is too soon.

Edited by freeze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know a lot of this is highly speculative because if any playtesting has occured at all, it's probably not in-depth enough to answer most of these questions. But it's things to keep in mind, more than anything else.

C9 has a fantastic and in-depth combat system, but it's also difficult and requires a lot of testing on the side of the players to determine what works and how it works... but that's all the game has. It's riddled with pay to win, plagued with repetitive pve, and highly gear-reliant to be successful. Crowfall has avoided many of these pitfalls already, but I'm eager to see how the combat really starts to shape up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure I saw a Knight air bound, and Fae Assassins with wings, but they said no flight, I can only assume they will have jump attacks, but the whole aerial play kind of counteracts the collision they advertised.

 

Some of the features and even statements seem to be fairly conflicting. Personally, I'm offended that they show off a half dozen Fae pictures with wings, claim their art depicts in game content than say the wings are only for gliding >.>


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure I saw a Knight air bound, and Fae Assassins with wings, but they said no flight, I can only assume they will have jump attacks, but the whole aerial play kind of counteracts the collision they advertised.

 

Some of the features and even statements seem to be fairly conflicting. Personally, I'm offended that they show off a half dozen Fae pictures with wings, claim their art depicts in game content than say the wings are only for gliding >.>

I did mean to clarify that when I said aerial combat, I was talking mostly about jumping attacks or techniques that could only be utilized while airborne from jumps.

 

Limited gliding and air-breaking for certain skills/spells or for mobility is a visually appealing and cool gameplay mechanic.

On top of this, if gliding is allowed, hit-stun is usually a much more significant concern, as you can be knocked out of the air into a falling animation and then combo'd or choke-slammed with impunity

Combat+flight, on the other hand, unless the entire game is built around it, creates a lot of silly abuse cases and severely gimps melee classes. Which even though flying sounds cool, creates bad gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thus far, the developers seem unconcerned about class to class combat balance, with several references to Centaur battle superiority and auxiliary value.

 

Beyond such, virtually every character will probably have projectile options, Knight has been shown with a bow and grappling chain thus far. If players choose to pass up aerial counters, that a practical shortcoming that fits their build.

 

Personally, I feel if Fae has flight and practical shortcomings bound to her archetype, it should balance fine. They can make significant flight part of a promotion class and make them light equipment reliant so they can't use heavy weapons or transport much in their inventory as well as fly.

 

It's really only a problem if you assume every unsatisfactory result will not be addressed or that it can't be allowed just because it's not unanimously approved.

 

Personally I find it ingenuine to have races like Centaur or Fae and not include cavalry combat or flight, it's like satisfying an urge for sweets with something that looks like a sweet, but is a flavorless disolvable drop, it's just frustrating.

 

All that aside, I don't really consider leaping attacks aerial combat, even with fantasy leaps, it's not like your fighting in the air. And I'd prefer more emphasis on collision than acrobatics, restricting vertical mobility allows certain archetypes to have unique gameplay by exception. Everybody double jumping and hovering for one move or another goes hand in hand with the circle strafing behaviors that look and feel artificial, it damages strategic quality.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand with your going with the devs not being concerned about class to class balance, but I'm still curious how overall the combat is going to be structured.

Cavalry overall is going to be a very interesting system, and I'm very curious to see how it shapes up inside of and outside of the legionnaire archetype. As far as that idea of strafing and fantasy jumping/hovers sounding artificial doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. It's going to be a choice the devs will probably make in the end as it does kind of shape the tone of the game; I'd love to see expansion of combat into the Z-axis, even if it was just for the more typically mobile characters in most games (Ranger, assassin).

I bring up this idea of the Z axis also because TERA would glitch out rather bad when there was a change in elevation; hitboxes for most abilities were completely broken over around a 1-2m height differential. I can honestly say having that extra bit of aiming flexibility would be heavily appreciated, especially in a game where fighting over a mountain is a serious possibility, and throwing combat in that axis just utilizes it to its full potential.

I agree, if Fae is the only class with flight and there are appropriate shortcomings in the class, it won't be a problem.

As for when I'd brought up mounted combat, I probably should have clarified that I was speaking mostly of the flying variety. But again, that only becomes an issue if someone, as you had said Bahamutkaiser, gives themselves shortcomings in their class to deal with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well in regards to super armour, it will likely be in the form of changes to values used in the physics system, like increased mass for instance. I doubt there are going to be skills that are straight up unable to be interrupted. What I think would be really cool, is if at different points during a skill, your mass is actively increasing/decreasing and so depending on where you are in the skill, your mass would change. EG: If you character throws a punch, he'd be more stable in the wind-up and less stable after the follow through. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the new knight post, it's clear that there is an intended stun system/component that the devs have in mind, and it's likely that Crowfall is going with the plan of a designated stun/interrupt system like TERA has, where only certain abilities will apply some form crowd control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is the flow of combat not a hot topic..(Had to dig quite deep to find out if someone already made a topic about)

I'm quite surprised,seen as combat is one of the most important facets when it comes to these types of games.

And I know a lot of people probably don't see a reason to discuss it as long as alpha testing hasn't started.But then it might be too late.

Its like funeral arrangements,something important grandpa rather not talks about while alive,causing a lot of problems for everyone involved afterwards, when grandpa died & poorly made socks just got real.

Luckily the first crows still have to hatch & hope it never comes to a funeral..good lordy..

 

I seen their combat chat video,where they asked some of the basic & usual questions for combat.

Crowfall action combat can be seen as a mix between Tera's combat system and Mavel heroes(which I haven't played)

I've been trying Tera recently and I must say it has the best combat i've experienced ,unfortunately the questing is rather generic and dull.

Still,when going for an action based combat system like Tera's,I believe therer is plenty of room for improvement.

Just don't know where to start atm,perhaps a question is a good start (another reason I didn't want to start a topic on it myself)

 

One thing we have to keep in mind is that this is a pvp oriented game.So my question is this;

Within the action-oriented combat dynamics,which things could alter the player flow & player behavior, in a positive way,so that combat becomes more engaging & exciting?

 

Now for the few lines of thoughts I was having about this question

 

Surely friendly fire is one thing that will make players think through their tactics about approaching and fighting friends&allies alike.

 

Damage caused by objects would add another potential danger,Like the barrels seen in the new legionaire update could do some splash damage to the ones they hit when thrown over

A player might push a boulder down a hill to kill a group of enemies that would otherwise be an impossible fight.

I think 1 player becoming a potential danger to a group is a good thing;its not just about healer first anymore but eliminating potential dangers.

& thus groups have to be more aware of their surroundings.

 

Perhaps friendly fire and damage caused by objects could be connected

So in one campaign you could have a soft friendly fire ruleset where only damage caused by objects will be taken into account as friendly fire(if you mistakenly push the boulder atop of the hill towards a friendly group)

 

Pushing players off cliffs is another nice thing to do& for each player something to be aware of too.

Walls falling on top of players,put the voxels to good use..

 

Survival power management;like archers have to gather wood to make their arrows on the go when they have no corpses to loot them from

 

Surely i've forgotten a few,but this will do for now

Edited by Tipsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...