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A Competitive Economy & Eternal Kingdoms


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From what I have read and heard from the Devs, they are aiming for a complex economy, which they have compared to Eve. I don't know if I am reading into the comparison to much, but I assume this to mean a very competitive economy. A economy that is full of people trying to make a fortune and doing everything in their power (betrayal, bribery, trying to fix markets, etc.) to get there. I've also heard mention of the politics that go into all that being something that the Devs are looking for in this game as well. Again, if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm extremely excited for all that.

 

On the other hand, I've heard that EKs are meant to be the trade hubs, social networks, and places to train. This is where goods are traded outside of the campaigns. There is also a restriction of the amount of goods that can be brought into a campaign based on the campaign rules.

 

With these two systems in mind, my question is how do they work together? The goods brought outside of the campaign will be used for crafting and building kingdoms. Any weapons/armor made outside of the campaigns will automatically lose value because there is a limit on what can be brought in (I am glad for this limit btw). And because of this limit, I imagine there will be a surplus of supplies sitting outside of campaigns just waiting to be brought in. Once inside of a campaign the demand for weapons/armor will go way up and you'll be able to make a good amount of money as a crafter that way, but there are limits on what you can take out. 

 

So what would be the point of the 'spoils of war' if they automatically serve very little purpose outside the campaign. And how can player made cities in the EKs be considered trading hubs if the real economy and real trading only happens inside campaigns. And then, what's gives value to the items used to make cities if the cities serve no economic purpose.

 

Am I missing a piece of the puzzle or drawing the wrong conclusions?

 

If I'm not how can these systems (both of which I really like) work together well?

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The EKs and CW relationship is pretty one sided (with some exceptions).

The EKs are more dependent on the CWs and some campaigns might even be close to having no need for the EKs.

 

It kind of have to be this way.

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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You need stuff to build your EK so stuff will always have a point no matter what campaign mode you decide to play. Unless you ignore the EK totally which you certainly can do if you want.

 

If you play on God's Reach you can bring lots of stuff in, the EK will be there and by default have more significant economic impact than say if you played on the dregs where the default is you can't bring stuff into the campaign at all. You could imagine people who only play on God's Reach being the kind of person who shops more in the EK compared to a dregs player.

 

Don't forget relics and artifacts. No matter what campaign you play in, you bring those back from the campaign, install those into your EK and then they give a small bonus to the either the people living with you in your building or the entire EK itself. You take these bonuses with you into the next campaign regardless of the import item rules.

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So what would be the point of the 'spoils of war' if they automatically serve very little purpose outside the campaign. And how can player made cities in the EKs be considered trading hubs if the real economy and real trading only happens inside campaigns. And then, what's gives value to the items used to make cities if the cities serve no economic purpose.

 

Am I missing a piece of the puzzle or drawing the wrong conclusions?

 

If I'm not how can these systems (both of which I really like) work together well?

 

Thing is: we do NOT know what purpose the 'spoils of war' will have; we don't know what we will be able to build or craft with it. Also we do not know how are the ratio regarding this 'spoils of war' (how much stuff will we be able to take back with us from campaign, how many items will we need to build something).

 

At this point, noone will be able to give you a proper answer, because noone knows (well, except ACE guys).

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If you play on God's Reach you can bring lots of stuff in, the EK will be there and by default have more significant economic impact than say if you played on the dregs where the default is you can't bring stuff into the campaign at all. You could imagine people who only play on God's Reach being the kind of person who shops more in the EK compared to a dregs player.

 

I've only read generalities about the different campaign modes. Do you mind sending a link? Also do you think there will be a competitive economy outside of the campaigns? Are they trying to make it that way?

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I've only read generalities about the different campaign modes. Do you mind sending a link? Also do you think there will be a competitive economy outside of the campaigns? Are they trying to make it that way?

 

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/1392-012915-forgemaster-world-rulesets-resources/

 

most of the information we have comes from the pics there

 

I don't have a crystal ball but i think as long as people offer resources that other EKs need for building or crafting, if you're a player that wants gear to bring into a campaign, or if they let you sell artifacts/relics then things will naturally get competitive

Edited by oberon
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This still going around?

 

It have been clarified that the rings does not set the import rules and was examples.

 

That being said, the most lenient we have seen as an example is equipped items.

We have also been told, several times, that imports will always be somewhat strict.

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Thanks for the link. Makes me feel a bit better about the economy in EKs, although from what Cirolle is saying it sounds like it won't be anywhere close to 100% of whats in the inventory... which makes me feel a little worse? hah. I guess I'm still just having a hard time seeing the the EK panning out as a trade hub, given what we know. Right now I'm just imaging wealth/artifacts to be as about important as Influence Points/Runes in LoL (not very).

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My minor concern, giving what little we know at the moment, is the simple fact about trade with some OTHER players EK. There will be thousands (if not multiples) of EKs as everyone playing gets an EK. Why would you really want to trade with other EKs? Building up your own EK would seem best. Now it is true that some portion of the player base will ignore the EK they have and simply visit other EKs to obtain their 'stuff'.

 

As an example, I am most interested in creating my own crafting shop. I have joined the guild "Lantern Watch" and want to build up my craftshop in my Kings EK. My own EK will be offered to use as an Arena for Solo and group PVP as needed by my Kingdom. My Archetype will center on crafting and as a support fighter for my guild. As far as getting goods from a crafter with 'reputation' I would be curious to understand how we would know about other crafters reputation. Seems like we need some type of central 'board' to give some hint or direction other than 'word of mouth'. In any case there are going to be a LOT of kingdoms. This will affect trade.

 

HINT: There will be solo players and they will act as mercenaries. Also, what about all that building (from ruins) of forts, castles and cities in a campaign that is destroyed when the campaign is over. Invest a lot - lose it all? Just curious.

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Also, what about all that building (from ruins) of forts, castles and cities in a campaign that is destroyed when the campaign is over. Invest a lot - lose it all? Just curious.

 

Lose it all I guess.

 

But you will be able to bring back ressources you gathered during the campaign & didn't use (amount will depend on if you won or not the campaign ofc).

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Thanks for the link. Makes me feel a bit better about the economy in EKs, although from what Cirolle is saying it sounds like it won't be anywhere close to 100% of whats in the inventory... which makes me feel a little worse? hah. I guess I'm still just having a hard time seeing the the EK panning out as a trade hub, given what we know. Right now I'm just imaging wealth/artifacts to be as about important as Influence Points/Runes in LoL (not very).

 

That's a very good way to think about the EKs.  If what you are looking for is an economy that makes or breaks the victor of a Campaign, you will find it inside that Campaign World.

 

The economy aspect of the game is also what has me primarily pumped for Crowfall.  My eyes are on the longer lasting CWs, 6 months is long enough for me to invest myself emotionally into a economy (That will ultimately be destroyed, but will be a deciding factor over who wins).  Don't lose hope over your competitive economy dream just yet.

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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The economy aspect of the game is also what has me primarily pumped for Crowfall.  My eyes are on the longer lasting CWs, 6 months is long enough for me to invest myself emotionally into a economy (That will ultimately be destroyed, but will be a deciding factor over who wins).  Don't lose hope over your competitive economy dream just yet.

 

That's a good point. I image that kind of game play that I'm looking for will be able to be had during a 6month duration. Do you think trade hubs will emerge during the campaigns? I could see that maybe (a big maybe hah) happening with the neutral faction that needs to create a balance of points between the other two sides.

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That's a good point. I image that kind of game play that I'm looking for will be able to be had during a 6month duration. Do you think trade hubs will emerge during the campaigns? I could see that maybe (a big maybe hah) happening with the neutral faction that needs to create a balance of points between the other two sides.

 

The social dynamics of the game are still in entropy.  The Devs are still only trying to flesh out a combat module.  It is going to take them a while to get to the specifics of economy and crafting (Since those two will be founded on the game's combat).  Whether social hubs occur naturally or not is not a confirmed.

 

I am actually planning to actively seek to create this neutral faction of sorts you're suggesting.  The merchant town that offers a place of rest for the few, protects its patrons from PK, cooperates with local lords to protect itself from invasion, but does not fall to their tantrums - by arming itself with teeth, both freelance soldiers and political allies.  That town faction likes, but has to befriend to avoid getting in trouble.

 

The reality of the CWs is that there can only be one winner (In the unforgiving Dregs at least), but the Kneel mechanic allows for political quirks.  The winner is never clear, and rival powerhouses will be tempted to offer treasure to freelance aid and temporary ceasefire.  Since victory is never a guarantee in the lower tier CWs (Dregs), being neutral can lend itself to being an advantage, less loot, more insurance.  If you get back stabbed, you simply side with the traitor's rival next time around and they will rethink about double crossing you in future Campaigns.

 

Being neutral is most likely next to impossible, but I'm going to have fun trying to build a merchant fortress.  A social / economic hub must be able to protect itself in the unforgiving Dying Worlds.

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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The balance between the exports from the EK's and the imports into the Campaigns has been talked about a lot.

 

Right now the word seems to be that exporting items from a Campaign means putting the items into special bank vaults that are scattered around a Campaign world.  What percentage of those items that you actually get to export will be determined by your win/lose/kneel status at the end of the campaign.   For a while they were talking about an RNG determining which items would be exported but now that's no longer 100% certain.

 

Since Campaigns will be lasting at least a month and not everyone will be a winner, it may be a while before enough materials are exported from the Campaign worlds to build anything of substance on some of the EK's. Depending upon how much resources are needed to build actual buildings in the EK it make take half a year to get something built that is of a decent size.  Actually have enough resources in an EK to craft goods and gear to sell may not actually be feasible without planning and forethought. 

So savvy folks are also planning a wide range of uses for the EK that are not limited to goods for sale. There will be campaigns that allow imported gear so it's not likely that there will be no market for goods and gear.  But EK's will also have PvP areas, inns to gather, contests & races, swords for hire etc.  Players can be pretty creative and some EK's will be astounding.
 

pixS8Wt.jpg


The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I still think that the dev's will do a full wipe a few weeks/months before they go live, and let beta players bring in a certain amount of resources to jump-start crafting in the live game. I look forward to seeing different rulesets in different ring campaigns, but mostly how the resource type, quantity and quality are dispersed among the rings.

eEvERiW.jpg

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let beta players bring in a certain amount of resources to jump-start crafting in the live game

If we assume all of the first batch of campaigns are no-import then there's no need for this. Hop into a campaign and start crafting from scratch just like any other no-import campaign

Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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Since Campaigns will be lasting at least a month and not everyone will be a winner, it may be a while before enough materials are exported from the Campaign worlds to build anything of substance on some of the EK's. Depending upon how much resources are needed to build actual buildings in the EK it make take half a year to get something built that is of a decent size.  Actually have enough resources in an EK to craft goods and gear to sell may not actually be feasible without planning and forethought. 

So savvy folks are also planning a wide range of uses for the EK that are not limited to goods for sale. There will be campaigns that allow imported gear so it's not likely that there will be no market for goods and gear.  But EK's will also have PvP areas, inns to gather, contests & races, swords for hire etc.  Players can be pretty creative and some EK's will be astounding.

 

Thanks for pointing this out, I had just assumed that supply would be abundant outside the campaign, especially after the game has been going a little while. Heres to hoping all the little details make it so supply isn't as high as I expecting and big cities take lots of time and materials.

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My minor concern, giving what little we know at the moment, is the simple fact about trade with some OTHER players EK. There will be thousands (if not multiples) of EKs as everyone playing gets an EK. Why would you really want to trade with other EKs? Building up your own EK would seem best. Now it is true that some portion of the player base will ignore the EK they have and simply visit other EKs to obtain their 'stuff'.

 

As an example, I am most interested in creating my own crafting shop. I have joined the guild "Lantern Watch" and want to build up my craftshop in my Kings EK. My own EK will be offered to use as an Arena for Solo and group PVP as needed by my Kingdom. My Archetype will center on crafting and as a support fighter for my guild. As far as getting goods from a crafter with 'reputation' I would be curious to understand how we would know about other crafters reputation. Seems like we need some type of central 'board' to give some hint or direction other than 'word of mouth'. In any case there are going to be a LOT of kingdoms. This will affect trade.

 

HINT: There will be solo players and they will act as mercenaries. Also, what about all that building (from ruins) of forts, castles and cities in a campaign that is destroyed when the campaign is over. Invest a lot - lose it all? Just curious.

 

Pretty sure you lose whatever isn't in your vault. But you at least get that and whatever rewards for winning (if you're castle was good enough to make you win I suppose). Again, most important things will be happening inside the campaigns. It's the things that are brought out that I'm worried about losing, or it being useless.

 

As far as reputation goes, I assume the best crafters (or the most popular?) and best cities will be talked about as you mentioned and it's just something a player who has been around for awhile will be familiar with. I'm sure people will also use the forums to that end as well. And I'd imagine those providing great gear in campaigns will be sought out in the EKs as well. Big guilds will have their own crafters so you'd probably get the most business/reputation in the matches that are faction or god based. Or just find a big guild and supply for them!

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