Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Cassian

A Competitive Economy & Eternal Kingdoms

Recommended Posts

The successful EK's will be the ones that don't restrict membership to just a guild or alliance members.  I look at eks as a separate Meta game.  The benefit's of the ek are less as you get closer to the hunger because of the import rule set.  The buffs from having relics in your ek will be small and a bonus but not game defining in the CW's.  

 

To play this game to the fullest one will want to be part of a large ek and successful in the CW's.  Remember tyrant was involved in sims online as well.  Some people will play Crowfall so they can try to build the ek, some will play for the pvp in the cw's.  Our guild "KoS" plans to do both.  The brothel and gambling hall will set us above the rest  B) as far as ek's are concerned.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best resources will come from the campaigns with the harshest export rules. There will be a market outside the campaigns for those resources and gear made from those resources. Also, some people will spend most of their time in the EKs. Those people will need resources of all types. Thralls, Relics, Artifacts and Disciplines will probably all be tradeable and there will be a market for them in EKs.

 

The EKs have mobs and PvP can be turned on or off, so it's not like there isn't a use for gear in EKs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best resources will come from the campaigns with the harshest export rules. There will be a market outside the campaigns for those resources and gear made from those resources. Also, some people will spend most of their time in the EKs. Those people will need resources of all types. Thralls, Relics, Artifacts and Disciplines will probably all be tradeable and there will be a market for them in EKs.

 

The EKs have mobs and PvP can be turned on or off, so it's not like there isn't a use for gear in EKs. 

 

You posted a bunch of why EK players will want campaign resources.

 

You didn't post anything about why campaign players will care.

 

Every block of stone I escrow for export is a block of stone I can't use to defend my campaign stronghold. If I'm playing to win, I want to use those resources, not export them. And if I'm playing in the Dregs, with very little importing allowed or none at all, then the EK marketplace holds no value for me.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A small point here. Everything you can import into a single campaign in a ring will be exactly the same as your opponent has available. Import rule are applied to all players in that campaign. A balance control obviously. Thus the primary selection of gear for a player will be first: import restrictions and second, gear available to that player. Therefore it seems natural that there will be some items available in that campaign that are NOT available thru the embargo. These items will be important to both guilds and single players. It would also seem natural that those items will be usable in that campaign even tho they were forbidden entry by the embargo. So - take them 'home' to the EK or use them right there in the campaign, giving the player an edge. For example a crafter in the campaign could 'enthrall' a sword of higher or different ability in a campaign that would have been prevented in the embargo for entry to that campaign.

 

My point here is that crafters will be of great value inside a campaign as well as in an EK. Guess what? Mercenary solo crafters are a viable play style! LOL!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A small point here. Everything you can import into a single campaign in a ring will be exactly the same as your opponent has available. Import rule are applied to all players in that campaign. A balance control obviously. Thus the primary selection of gear for a player will be first: import restrictions and second, gear available to that player. Therefore it seems natural that there will be some items available in that campaign that are NOT available thru the embargo. These items will be important to both guilds and single players. It would also seem natural that those items will be usable in that campaign even tho they were forbidden entry by the embargo. So - take them 'home' to the EK or use them right there in the campaign, giving the player an edge. For example a crafter in the campaign could 'enthrall' a sword of higher or different ability in a campaign that would have been prevented in the embargo for entry to that campaign.

 

My point here is that crafters will be of great value inside a campaign as well as in an EK. Guess what? Mercenary solo crafters are a viable play style! LOL!

I am assuming that you will have to have access to some sort of building to make more refined gear.

And that it will be hard or impossible to build these buildings alone or defend them.

 

So, whilenit might be viable to be a solo crafter in theory, in think it will be very hard


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You posted a bunch of why EK players will want campaign resources.

 

You didn't post anything about why campaign players will care.

 

Every block of stone I escrow for export is a block of stone I can't use to defend my campaign stronghold. If I'm playing to win, I want to use those resources, not export them. And if I'm playing in the Dregs, with very little importing allowed or none at all, then the EK marketplace holds no value for me.

Relics and Artifacts hold no value to you? Disciplines hold no value to you? If you join a Dregs that allows imports, having the resources and/or gear in the EK to bring into the the CW doesn't hold value to you?

 

Relics and Artifacts won't last forever. They will need to be renewed and/or replaced. Some disciplines may be rare and you may need coin/resources/gear/something to trade for the one you want. Remember the Commander rune from SB?

 

If you don't care about the EK then your involvement in the EK economy will be less, but that doesn't mean that there won't be a thriving economy there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair points to a degree.

 

Realistically, nobody is going to trade a relic for a pile of ore; the relic trade is almost certainly going to be like for like only. So while that trade will take place in EKs, the parties to the trade are both going to be campaigners.

 

Likewise disciplines: firstly it's unlikely that most players will export a discipline rune rather than applying it immediately or giving/trading it to a guildmate who will apply it immediately. Then, even if a rune does get exported, it's generally not going to be traded for resources which can easily and safely be farmed in the EK.

 

So while I can certainly see that there's room in the EK marketplace for campaigners to trade certain kinds of rare items with each other, I still don't see what EK-focused players have to offer campaigners which would justify exporting any significant volume of materials for trade.

 

I suppose if campaign resources are in very high demand it might be easier to pay maintenance on my artifact museum by exporting some mats than by having my guildies spend a night farming coin twice a month or whatever, but I'm not sure that's enough to link the economies in the way you envision.

 

With that said: this is all guesswork, so who knows how things will actually turn out.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what would be the point of the 'spoils of war' if they automatically serve very little purpose outside the campaign. And how can player made cities in the EKs be considered trading hubs if the real economy and real trading only happens inside campaigns. And then, what's gives value to the items used to make cities if the cities serve no economic purpose.

 

Am I missing a piece of the puzzle or drawing the wrong conclusions?

 

If I'm not how can these systems (both of which I really like) work together well?

Training, gearing.  Import rules are not all set to zero.  If my crafter makes 1 hundred swords in the EK, and the import rules are 1 sword, then well I guess 100 people on my side will get their swords before joining a new campaign!

 

The training part:  Armies will need good crafters to get them to top performance.  That will not completely happen within the campaign (at least not the first campaign).  Getting someone trained up will take resources, even if all of the end products do not immediately make it back into the campaigns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting someone trained up will take resources.

 

No. Crafting skills are raised through passive training, just like combat skills. You will not have to make a million helmets, or any at all, in order to skill up.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Training, gearing.  Import rules are not all set to zero.  If my crafter makes 1 hundred swords in the EK, and the import rules are 1 sword, then well I guess 100 people on my side will get their swords before joining a new campaign!

 

The training part:  Armies will need good crafters to get them to top performance.  That will not completely happen within the campaign (at least not the first campaign).  Getting someone trained up will take resources, even if all of the end products do not immediately make it back into the campaigns.

OK, but where are all those mats and reagents come from to produce said swords?  WHO is going to be feeding the crafters to make top producer items in the EK?   I see more items being used and utilized in the CW than making it back to the EK.   I have said this a few times but the economy of the EK's will take a long time to develop  due to the export rules.  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, but where are all those mats and reagents come from to produce said swords?  WHO is going to be feeding the crafters to make top producer items in the EK?   I see more items being used and utilized in the CW than making it back to the EK.   I have said this a few times but the economy of the EK's will take a long time to develop  due to the export rules.  

This is where you have to have a long-term plan and some organization.  No one person is going to accomplish this.  It is going to take some leadership, book-keeping and strategics to determine what should stay for this war effort, and what should go forward.  The good method is also going to be establishing guild crafters where materials can be focused.  A time investment and coordination again.

 

The piece of the puzzle we do not know is exactly how much of an edge crafted gear of each level gives.  If I can produce a large force having decent gear I may very well be in a better position then a medium size force using high-end gear.  The high end materials may be better used to bolster the meta- effort across CWs (i.e. in the EKs) than used on the field.  From what the devs had said so far, gear will not be the end-all-be-all of power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is where you have to have a long-term plan and some organization.  No one person is going to accomplish this.  It is going to take some leadership, book-keeping and strategics to determine what should stay for this war effort, and what should go forward.  The good method is also going to be establishing guild crafters where materials can be focused.  A time investment and coordination again.

 

The piece of the puzzle we do not know is exactly how much of an edge crafted gear of each level gives.  If I can produce a large force having decent gear I may very well be in a better position then a medium size force using high-end gear.  The high end materials may be better used to bolster the meta- effort across CWs (i.e. in the EKs) than used on the field.  From what the devs had said so far, gear will not be the end-all-be-all of power.

Of course organization.   But down the road  , a year maybe?   You want crafters sitting in your EK that long?  Twiddling their thumbs? Since we all have multiple toons does it not makes sense to head to the CW's initially for everyone to get stuffz back to the EK ?  Then use your crafter toon there?  After a fashion? I am personally, if I am successful in a campaign not just going to "hand" stuffz over to someone that has been playing princess in the EK while others are out fighting.  I think alot of us , if we are going to supply a crafter, it's going to be one that has fought along side of us, been in the campaign and experienced the  struggle.  

 

Also, what is to stop a crafter from accumulating mats, etc and then taking them to set up a business on their own at some point? The hell with the ppl that having been feeding them.  Since the CW is the "heart" of the game I see an economy forming their FIRST.

 

Everything you are saying can probably happen, in the CW.  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course organization.   But down the road  , a year maybe?   You want crafters sitting in your EK that long?  Twiddling their thumbs? Since we all have multiple toons does it not makes sense to head to the CW's initially for everyone to get stuffz back to the EK ?  Then use your crafter toon there?  After a fashion? I am personally, if I am successful in a campaign not just going to "hand" stuffz over to someone that has been playing princess in the EK while others are out fighting.  I think alot of us , if we are going to supply a crafter, it's going to be one that has fought along side of us, been in the campaign and experienced the  struggle.  

 

Also, what is to stop a crafter from accumulating mats, etc and then taking them to set up a business on their own at some point? The hell with the ppl that having been feeding them.  Since the CW is the "heart" of the game I see an economy forming their FIRST.

 

Everything you are saying can probably happen, in the CW.  

Again, you responses are from an individual level when the answer for successful multiple-campaign is macro.

 

1) The person that gets the mats to level their rafter is chosen and trusted by the guild

2) guilds tends to make the donation process optional, but if you also would like the fruits, you need to help with the seeds

3) as I said, crafters for guilds are people you trust.  But never go with a single point of failure, and be willing to do audits

4) CW will be mini-economies that last only as long as the CW itself.  EK will help provide the continuity between campaigns.  Remember, your campaign you may very wll lose, and if playing a harsh enough ruleset, that could result in zero % from your embargo!

 

CW will be self-sufficient.  The edge will be what skills your side brings, and how "maxed out" your characters will be within the ruleset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

> 1) The person that gets the mats to level their rafter

 

You keep saying this, and it keeps not being true.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he simply ignores you Jihan.

 

Or, maybe if he repeat it enough it will become true

Edited by Cirolle

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are my current thoughts on the EKonomy at release:

  1. It won't exist until the first CW win.
  2. All buildings will be inactive until they are upgraded to the first functional tier, which will require resources exported from the CW.
  3. Even with the first CW win, only the winners will have anything worth bartering.
  4. Of those winners, most will be using the resources to upgrade specific buildings within the guild and personal EKs that provide value to the CW (e.g. shrines and possibly the guild hall).
  5. Also, of those winners, some may have exported relics and/or artifacts, which they could barter with other winners for more resources to further upgrade their key buildings.
  6. Beyond the buildings that offer value to the CW, everything else in the EK is cosmetic "housing".
  7. The CW can fully function independent of the EK, while the EK requires exports from the CW, which only the winners have.
  8. Due to the above, I wouldn't be surprised if the first set of CWs are 1 month long, in order to start injecting the EKonomy with resources.
  9. Most players will have at least 1 month VIP and of those with bigger package EKs, they'll have tax-free plots and even more months of VIP.   So, the coins will have very little value compared to the resources used to upgrade buildings.  In fact, it'll be quite a bit of time before they are of any significant value.
  10. Some people are still stuck on coins being the standard and believe that Ace killed the barter system with their coin system, which is far from reality.

It's going to take quite a bit of time before the EKonomy starts and picks up steam.  Currently, most of the value will be within the CW, which will vary between CWs, and it will be full barter.... not coin based.

 

Carry on.

 

/ignore Jihan :P


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, I won't mention that Todd clarified that placed buildings automatically upgrade from state 0 to 1 after a construction interval, no resources needed.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, I won't mention that Todd clarified that placed buildings automatically upgrade from state 0 to 1 after a construction interval, no resources needed.

Which means they are functional and you can put things in them, like relics.

Which makes the EKS pay to win from the beginning


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine, I won't mention that Todd clarified that placed buildings automatically upgrade from state 0 to 1 after a construction interval, no resources needed.

 

Yes, I remember seeing something to this affect recently, although he didn't clarify what that timer will actually be either.  In fact, I thought he was referencing (in context) some of the buildings in the CW, not the EK. 


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, did they not say some very basic resources will be available in the EK's?  I guess I assumed these would be resources used to keep maintenance up on buildings.....I guess there is quite a bit of assumptions and speculation still....

 

Time will tell for sure!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...