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aparks

Make Mobs Drop USE-ABLE Loot

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I thought it would be the pledge level that people would try to discriminate, not the number of posts you have.  :P

 

I keep seeing a pattern, people are expecting it to be 100% PVP. It won't, it's more like 90% PVP and 10% PVE in my opinion. Also, what's wrong with making it easier to do the PVE things, so you can get to the PVP quicker? Yes, less player interaction and blah blah, but honestly how many times can you chop trees down or mine ore before going crazy? What's wrong with having some things automated for you? 

 

After reading this whole thread again, I can see we're off-topic quite a bit.  :P You forget what the original question was after getting to the end. 

 

The reason he mentioned your time on the forums was because of some missteps on your statements as fact within Crowfall.

 

*Gathering/Mining will be skills to be learned (not just picking up resources from POI's)

*Initial design is to restrict players to a single character per CW per account.

*This prevents alt crafting/ect

*Grinding skills will be something that you can/will do, even though it might not always be the best use of your time

*Solo playing won't be difficult in many forms of CW's such as RvR/ect.

*Assuming NPC's are harvesting for players

 

That list infers to many that you simply missed out on much of the early information that was released about the game which many of us are familiar with.  Asking for references is reasonable, though can be a fair amount of work tracking down information from months ago.

 

 

All that being said.  Having NPC's do your harvesting is a little silly IMO.  Why have them harvest resources that you then have to go transport?  Why not just make resources able to be picked up instead and not have to deal with NPC's altogether?  The reason is because it adds weight to your decisions.  If you want to efficiently farm resources, you have to sacrifice some pvp ability in order to do so.  If you want to build a castle, you have to risk your time as well as your inventory in order to do so.

 

Putting NPC's in as farmers is an added layer of uselessness.  If that's how they wanted resources collected, they'd just make a "Click to pick up" however many resources you wanted from that node and start trekking.

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Yes to sum it up.  Because the economy from what I read about Crowfall will be almost a mirror to that of Mortal Online, mixed in with some Reign of Kings/Ark: Survival Evolved style plus similar to Albion Online's economy system.

 

All games that start off extremely popular but end up very deserted by its player base do to the game/economy mechanics being too boring and pvp hotspots limited and largest guild wins.

 

Now I understand what the devs are saying that they don't want or intend for this to happen, but I feel like even though they don't know it their NEW economy system is really not that new.

 

How I picture Crowfall based on all their statements:

- Character classes like elderscrolls online mixed with albion online mixed with guild wars

- Campaign map like elderscrolls online PvP campaign zone (fighting over territory and resources)

- Gathering/Crafting system like mortal online / reign of kings

- Survival monitoring (eating food) like mortal online / ark: survival evolved

- PvE realm players kingdoms like that of albion onlines player islands / guild wars guild islands

- PvP mechanics more skill than tab target games like Ultima Online / Albion Online, but more dumbed down than fps games like Darkfall Online, Reign of kings, Mortal Online.

 

Now I'm ok with all of this but over time the game will die, do to the strange style of economy grind and do to the limited pvp hot spots that will hold larger battles that will favor most of the time larger clans/guilds. If this game was FPS skil based aiming pvp than smaller guilds/clans would have better chances of success do to real life skills and keyboard + mouse response time and accuracy.

 

You keep bringing up games dying "due" to a poor economy, yet all of the games you listed thus far died due to poor pvp mechanics, stability, hacking, cheating, ect.

 

People didn't just get tired of PvP in DFO.  They got tired of the rest of the game that forced you to do tedious things in order to PvP.

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By the way, "usable" is a perfectly fine word which already exists, you don't have to make "use-able" a thing like you're cobbling it together from scratch.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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In response to the OP:

Usable loot was something I'm familiar with from my time in DFO as well.  I don't have any inherent disagreement with that system, but it is entirely about implementation and availability of equipment.  I do NOT want to see mobs dropping anything more than the most basic tier group of gear either.  Thus, it can get you started, but is a disadvantage to those with crafted gear.  This should not be a viable alternative to crafting gear as it then directly reduces the value of crafted equipment.

 

Basic ammo, reagents, basic armor, basic weapons and all able to be broken down and harvested for raw mats is what I think would simply increase the feed of resources into a CW.

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Centralizing things like resources so that you have small areas for PvP is a bad idea.  Wait till you see the "escrow bank" camp as people protect the only way that resources get to EKs.  It will be much easier to farm the guys who brought their resources to the escrow bank than farming the resources and protecting them.  The bigger the guild the easier it will be to corner all the resource locations and the off world transport spot.

Edited by zolaz

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In response to the OP:

 

Usable loot was something I'm familiar with from my time in DFO as well.  I don't have any inherent disagreement with that system, but it is entirely about implementation and availability of equipment.  I do NOT want to see mobs dropping anything more than the most basic tier group of gear either.  Thus, it can get you started, but is a disadvantage to those with crafted gear.  This should not be a viable alternative to crafting gear as it then directly reduces the value of crafted equipment.

 

Basic ammo, reagents, basic armor, basic weapons and all able to be broken down and harvested for raw mats is what I think would simply increase the feed of resources into a CW.

Personally Id rather see something like our EK having just enough resources to make some basic gear. I mean is having the first thing we do in a PvP game to grind PvE mobs really what some are advocating for here? Then when we die a few times and can't really afford to make good gear we go back to grinding mobs for more basic gear? Everyone has to start "naked" so to speak so just not sure some PvE grinding of mobs stuff is the way to go here even if it is just basic starter gear.

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Personally Id rather see something like our EK having just enough resources to make some basic gear. I mean is having the first thing we do in a PvP game to grind PvE mobs really what some are advocating for here? Then when we die a few times and can't really afford to make good gear we go back to grinding mobs for more basic gear? Everyone has to start "naked" so to speak so just not sure some PvE grinding of mobs stuff is the way to go here even if it is just basic starter gear.

 

They are either killing mobs, or if they have crafting capabilities, they are farming resources to craft it.  I don't know how that would affect any balance that would otherwise be in a CW.

 

 

**BUT** I agree that grinding mobs should never be the best form of long term resource/gear collection.  I just don't know that it would hurt to drop "starter" grade gear.

Edited by valor

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Well most of you long time followers are making the game sound like the campaigns will be like the Elder Scrolls Campaign Map and how they have like lumber mills and mines etc to fight over and keeps to capture. And that's all.

 

If so than I kinda wish I didn't spend $175.

 

If its more like Reign of Kings than I'm cool with that, just think I will get tired of it eventually but still get my money's worth.

Edited by aparks

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nah, let me clear up some stuff for you.

 

We will see cities/hamlets/outposts and poorly made socks similar to DF.

No confirmation yet whether they'll be pre-placed or if we can chose where to erect them.

Those will be more permanent and not change hands every 2 minutes.

We'll see siege stones similar to Darkfall. I expect guilds holding cities for the entire duration of a campaign.

There will be a sense of ownership. How else will we make guilds rage-quit after burning their stuff to the ground? :D

 

 

The lumber mills, quarries, mines and so on wont be inside the cities, but moer akin to the village/mine system of DF/SB.

But unlike Darkfall, people will actually give a rat's bottom about them. I don't think I've ever seen an actual fight over a village cap in DF.

 

Large quantities of ressources will come from them.

We dunno yet, how the capture mechanic will work and how long we can hold them, or IF we can even hold them.

 

I don't think the inner rings will resemble anything like ESO.

Well here's hoping at least. I uninstalled that poorly made socksfest of a game on day 2 of the beta.

Edited by freeze

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Well most of you long time followers are making the game sound like the campaigns will be like the Elder Scrolls Campaign Map and how they have like lumber mills and mines etc to fight over and keeps to capture. And that's all.

 

If so than I kinda wish I didn't spend $175.

 

If its more like Reign of Kings than I'm cool with that, just think I will get tired of it eventually but still get my money's worth.

 

TESO's campaign maps were quite static and if I recall mills and mines ect did not provide any lootable items if you died.  There also wasn't friendly fire, or voxels, or destructible environments, or meaningful loss during sieges, or factionless combat.

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Nice find! This quote however only says that ACE is putting design rules to encourage players to play one character per campaign.

 

Design rules could mean that it prevents 2 characters per campaign, or I guess it could also mean that someone would be less efficient with 2 characters.

 

I'm pretty sure what they meant was "we can only limit you to one per campaign if you use the same account. There's not a darn thing we can do if you have 2 accounts." That's why they can only "encourage" but not force.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I'm pretty sure what they meant was "we can only limit you to one per campaign if you use the same account. There's not a darn thing we can do if you have 2 accounts." That's why they can only "encourage" but not force.

 

Yea, it's probably the case, but only based on the FAQ information, I think that we can't really confirm that there's an existing rule in Crowfall preventing a player to have 2 characters in the same campaign on the same account.

 

WON’T THIS ENCOURAGE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO MAKE ALTERNATE CHARACTERS FOR CRAFTING (ALTS)?

 

Probably not - we want to encourage players to play a single character within a campaign, so we’re putting design rules in place to encourage that. An upshot of this design is that the best “crafters” won’t generally be alternate characters, because it’s not a very effective strategy.

 

I thought I remembered a message from ACE that was without a doubt confirming that we wouldn't be able to have 2 characters per campaign per account, but now it seems that I was incorrect.

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As a hardcore crafter I have to give the OP a resounding "No!"  Many others have offered you reasons as to why your suggestion is full of fail.  They speak wisely, and are worth giving consideration to their points.  (of course, setting aside any snark that may have creeped in.  Snark always finds a way in.)  I would only add that your "idea" seeks to circumvent my fun.  That was unkind of you.  I want to be there in the dregs supplying my friends and allies with the equipment they need to succeed.  If they can just go off and kill a dozen pigs to gear up, then my night is ruined.  I would then have nothing left to do but to go forth and seek bloody vengeance upon the foul villain who brought forth this terrible plague of pig-swords down upon us.  What will your in-game character name be?  Why? Oh, no reason. Just curious, yeah, just curious.  ;)

 

I'm asking you all to look at a larger picture and not be stuck in a box based on someones initial idea.

 

I'm feeling like you may be missing the larger picture as well.  But, I could be mistaken.

 

 

 Hahaha I only play the hardest core pvp games

 

That says quite a lot.

 

I doubt I'm implying what you think I'm implying.

 

**BUT** I agree that grinding mobs should never be the best form of long term resource/gear collection.  I just don't know that it would hurt to drop "starter" grade gear.

 

Put the pig-sword down, and back away!

:P

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I thought I remembered a message from ACE that was without a doubt confirming that we wouldn't be able to have 2 characters per campaign per account, but now it seems that I was incorrect.

 

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because nobody's offered you the quote doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because nobody's offered you the quote doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Eh? So if I pull it out of my bottom, it must be true? 

 

EDIT:  :P  it changed the word for me...

Edited by zero2none

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Eh? So if I pull it out of my bottom, it must be true? 

 

a -> b does not imply a' -> b'

 

a -> b also does not imply a' -> b

 

a-> b implies nothing at all about what a' might imply.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I don't know what it is about gaming forums in which new members have almost no respect for elder members all coming and telling them the same thing, but poorly made socks... it happens a lot here.

 

Here is your link to Tully discussing one character per account and multiple accounts as a way around it:

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5575-player-experience-self-policing-suggestion-thread/?p=135436

 

Lazy bastards.

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Yea, it's probably the case, but only based on the FAQ information, I think that we can't really confirm that there's an existing rule in Crowfall preventing a player to have 2 characters in the same campaign on the same account.

 

WON’T THIS ENCOURAGE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO MAKE ALTERNATE CHARACTERS FOR CRAFTING (ALTS)?

 

Probably not - we want to encourage players to play a single character within a campaign, so we’re putting design rules in place to encourage that. An upshot of this design is that the best “crafters” won’t generally be alternate characters, because it’s not a very effective strategy.

 

I thought I remembered a message from ACE that was without a doubt confirming that we wouldn't be able to have 2 characters per campaign per account, but now it seems that I was incorrect.

 

There's also this

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5575-player-experience-self-policing-suggestion-thread/?p=135436

 

Appears Tully is agreeing with the belief that it is 1 char per account per campaign. If it wasn't, the need to have multiple accounts to get around the limit doesn't seem like a valid concern nor match with the answer he gave.

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