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Shunejii

Monks/fighters

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So as I was scrolling through the archetypes I couldn't help but notice the lack of a monk or brawler type class. An agile hard hitting class that's geared more towards getting into one on one skirmishes with heavy enemies and one on many skirmishes with lighter ones. Now I could definitely see something like a brawler coming out of the duelist or champion archetypes using fist weapons or even a monk or fighter class coming from the duelist using his small stature to weave in and out of combat with larger opponents. I would really like to see if anyone has interest in this because it could definitely be a fun playstyle to take into a big battlefield scenario.

Edited by Shunejii

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I guess the first thing to say is that they aren't making the game for 1v1/duel/arena fights, although I have no doubt there will be situations for it, the game isn't being built for it. 

 

It's hard to say what the archetypes will be like in the final release, nothing is written in stone yet. However, in my opinion the closest thing we have to brawlers right now are Myrmidons (even though it's somewhat of a tank as well), Champions, and possibly Legionnaires (because they seem to be agile and strong). As for agile archetypes, there are a number of them that can be considered; Duellist (fighter/utility/support), Stalker(pure archer), Assassin (stealth fighter/support), and Ranger (stealth archer/support). 

 

There's a pattern though, nothing is a solid of anything, they can do almost everything that the others can do, but some just do it better.

 

So, I guess to fill in that fighter/monk role (agile brawler?), you may want to look at the legionnaires... that's my opinion anyway. As for fist weapons? If you are asking for spiked gloves or something like that, I don't know if I would want something like that in the game, but in the current list of archetypes I think, the Forgemaster or the Duellist could fit that style of combat. 

 

I don't think they should add any more archetypes at the moment, we got a far few to play around with already. 

 

On the a side note; the Knight (pure defence) and Templar (dodge defence) seem like the obvious tank-type archetypes and then you got your support/magic users; Forgemaster (earth based), Druid (nature-based), Frostweaver(cold based) and Confessor (fire based). 

Edited by zero2none

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Fighting unarmed against an armed opponent is a bad idea and should be avoided at all costs; games and movies which put empty-hand martial artists on an even footing with swordsmen are pure fantasy. There's a reason martial arts traditions have sword styles, and it's not just to give people something different to do when they get bored with punching.

 

With that said, the combat role of melee skirmisher will probably be filled by the Champion.


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Fighting unarmed against an armed opponent is a bad idea and should be avoided at all costs; games and movies which put empty-hand martial artists on an even footing with swordsmen are pure fantasy. There's a reason martial arts traditions have sword styles, and it's not just to give people something different to do when they get bored with punching.

 

With that said, the combat role of melee skirmisher will probably be filled by the Champion.

 

The champion you think? I think of him as a heavy brawler with a lot of hard hitting strikes. For me, melee skirmisher seems to fit the legionnaire more. I'm not a legionnaire fanboy (I'm more interested in the myrmidon and confessor), but it just fits the style; fast because of 4 legs and strong and long ranging hits because of a lance/spear. 

Edited by zero2none

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I guess the first thing to say is that they aren't making the game for 1v1/duel/arena fights, although I have no doubt there will be situations for it, the game isn't being built for it. 

 

It's hard to say what the archetypes will be like in the final release, nothing is written in stone yet. However, in my opinion the closest thing we have to brawlers right now are Myrmidons (even though it's somewhat of a tank as well), Champions, and possibly Legionnaires (because they seem to be agile and strong). As for agile archetypes, there are a number of them that can be considered; Duellist (fighter/utility/support), Stalker(pure archer), Assassin (stealth fighter/support), and Ranger (stealth archer/support). 

 

There's a pattern though, nothing is a solid of anything, they can do almost everything that the others can do, but some just do it better.

 

So, I guess to fill in that fighter/monk role (agile brawler?), you may want to look at the legionnaires... that's my opinion anyway. As for fist weapons? If you are asking for spiked gloves or something like that, I don't know if I would want something like that in the game, but in the current list of archetypes I think, the Forgemaster or the Duellist could fit that style of combat. 

 

I don't think they should add any more archetypes at the moment, we got a far few to play around with already. 

 

On the a side note; the Knight (pure defence) and Templar (dodge defence) seem like the obvious tank-type archetypes and then you got your support/magic users; Forgemaster (earth based), Druid (nature-based), Frostweaver(cold based) and Confessor (fire based).

 

It doesn't have to be an entirely new archetype it could be just a play style supported by one of the already existing archetypes. And yes I know they said they weren't gearing the game towards 1v1 combat but that's for balancing issues a one on one fighter isn't necessarily out of the question but it is definitely a play style that you could use. Imagine running into a player who is far better geared/leveled than you and is able to defend against many opponents at once letting other pick them off as they try to pass him (i.e. a Knight defending an entrance to a keep) wouldn't you really want someone geared towards getting in past the arrows and spells to go at the knight head on? You could definitely argue that the assassin fills this role but assassins are lightly armored and can't take too many hits. I'm looking more towards a battering ram of a class (at least the way this game has things set up). A gladiatory brawler or a big bull man with a point to prove. Just food for thought really. Also i m not a fan of completely unarmed combat in a game with tons of weapons and classes. Give the man a spear or a sword or something!

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You could go the asuras wrath route too just a large metal armed anger fueled warrior who punches face and breaks down walls and just beats the living hell out of people and structures like a human siege engine throwing giant boulders around and causing havoc. I would imagine this would be a little difficult given the games physics based combat but I would love the feeling of being an ungodly juggernaut of muscle.

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Ah just be an myrmidon then, big and slow but with hard hitting strikes (knockbacks?) and tank capabilities (lots of HP). That's what I think when I look at it. 

Thinking about it now, you're suggestion could easily be a discipline - unarmed combat. 

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Logical reality me would say "unarmed vs armed doesn't sound like it would be realistic and plausible."

 

Inner child me would say "YES GIVE ME A FIGHTER CLASS I WANT TO PUNCH PEOPLE IN THE FACE!"

 

Personally I am not "against it" mainly because I love the idea of fighter classes, however in a game where you are supposed to need to repair your equipment and stuff is supposed to break I feel fighters who don't have weapons and such would find themselves in a weird place of balance..... On top of that this lore seems to be more mythological and that doesn't really pair well with fighter (monkish) type of roles.

 

This makes me sad.... but its the case : \


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Yeah! I remember skyrim had this cool perk too where your unarmed damage came from the armor values of your gauntlets so you could definitely get a tank who does unarmed damage and piggyback his armor values to his unarmed damage. You'd still have a mitigation tank but he'd also be able to dish out damage and siege structures.

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Logical reality me would say "unarmed vs armed doesn't sound like it would be realistic and plausible."

 

Inner child me would say "YES GIVE ME A FIGHTER CLASS I WANT TO PUNCH PEOPLE IN THE FACE!"

 

Personally I am not "against it" mainly because I love the idea of fighter classes, however in a game where you are supposed to need to repair your equipment and stuff is supposed to break I feel fighters who don't have weapons and such would find themselves in a weird place of balance..... On top of that this lore seems to be more mythological and that doesn't really pair well with fighter (monkish) type of roles.

 

This makes me sad.... but its the case : \

We always pander to inner child me! Haha. In all seriousness though if it fits the game I'll take it I don't always need kung fu but if you make me a 9 foot tall hulk and expect me to not want to just utterly wreck face with my colossal hands I dunno why you'd make me so big in the first place. I'm all for whatever works but I would love to see unarmed or modified unarmed combat in the game for at least one of the archetypes

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Fighting unarmed against an armed opponent is a bad idea and should be avoided at all costs; games and movies which put empty-hand martial artists on an even footing with swordsmen are pure fantasy. There's a reason martial arts traditions have sword styles, and it's not just to give people something different to do when they get bored with punching.

 

With that said, the combat role of melee skirmisher will probably be filled by the Champion.

 

custard you.

 

tumblr_lnz9siBi2x1qizbpto1_500.gif

 

 

alt image : http://41.media.tumblr.com/79fbe9e9fe7d208cd0c5afb847a18831/tumblr_mqouzkPMpt1qa27t0o1_1280.png

 

monks r cool: http://orig07.deviantart.net/f7f9/f/2013/159/c/6/time_to_train_by_overonehundred-d689uzr.jpg

 

jihan is boring:  tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o4_400.gif

 

Voted yes to monks so I can suplex people. Chi or Chakra for pulls/cc. At best, a discipline for unarmed combat would be cool. That was one of the biggest failures of Skyrim btw, excluding that.

 

trainplex.jpg

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custard you.

 

tumblr_lnz9siBi2x1qizbpto1_500.gif

 

 

alt image : http://41.media.tumblr.com/79fbe9e9fe7d208cd0c5afb847a18831/tumblr_mqouzkPMpt1qa27t0o1_1280.png

 

monks r cool: http://orig07.deviantart.net/f7f9/f/2013/159/c/6/time_to_train_by_overonehundred-d689uzr.jpg

 

jihan is boring:  tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o4_400.gif

 

Voted yes to monks so I can suplex people. Chi or Chakra for pulls/cc. At best, a discipline for unarmed combat would be cool. That was one of the biggest failures of Skyrim btw, excluding that.

 

trainplex.jpg

 

<33333333333333333

 

love this.

 

also just a side note, a smaller one on one kung fu/karate fighter i also dont think is completely out of the question. If the game takes inertia and mass into account this could be a class (or subclass/promotional class) that focuses on countering. I mean look at aikido. A martial art designed for samurais who have been disarmed by opposing samurais that focuses on using the force and technique of the opponent to turn the battle in your favor. I could definitely see a character who doesnt necessarily charge into battle but takes a slower and more deliberate approach taunting their opponent with flurries of light attacks and countering their attempts at a heavy finishing move on what appears to be a completely defenseless opponent. there have been entire martial arts dedicated to fighting opponents who are much more well armed than you (i.e. jujitsu,aikido,kajukenbo)  and coming out on top. granted these martial arts arent completely practical in every single situation against every enemy but thats kind of the nature of this game. situational effectiveness and a broad range of mistakes to make. who is to say that i couldnt, lets say, make a duelist. a smaller character who seems to be designed to circumvent defenses and infiltrate fortresses easier than most other classes. maybe that character doesnt carry weapons because they slow him down but then what does he do? does he take the naked snake approach and scavenge for things from fallen enemies? or does he use his enemies strengths against them and beat them with sheer martial prowess?

Edited by Shunejii

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A martial artist discipline which can punch through armor with chi powered fists and throw around enemies sounds fun. D&D also has some cool traditional monk abilities I'd love to see, such as parrying projectiles, feigning death, slow fall, and the awesome quivering palm.

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Unarmed fighting in a war is a great way to fight, after you lost your primary weapon, and your secondary weapon, and your friends weapon.

 

Like the Mountain and the Viper, you could fall back on fists as an inferior back up option.

 

Using it as a primary weapon is ret@rded, it's not apparent in RPGs, but reach, a Centaur will impale you before you even punch. Gonna use martial arts? What do you think wielding a lance or European sword is? It's martial arts, it's ignorant to pretend that an Asian style is so superior that it surpasses a conventional western martial art, it's also dumb to imagine a great martial artist wouldn't be better with a tool in their hand.

 

If they wanted to do a real monk type Asian inspired fighter, he should at least be a mage in the style of avatar benders that way there is some magic B.S. enhancing his bare fists and an artificial reason he's not using a weapon. Otherwise, empty handed fighting belongs to Champion, the gladiator, as his other, other, other fighting option, after he's exhausted several other weapon priorities, or as a mixture of fist and foot strikes or grabs between his weapon combos, as a mixture.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I actually like that idea a lot. Like a melee confessor who uses a hand to hand style of magic sort of like being a fire bender. That would open up a lot of opportunities for mage playstyles to develop youd never really count a mage out in melee because they might just be like the avatar and kung fu flame you to death.

Edited by Shunejii

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Sounds something like the sorcerer in Black Desert. A promotion for a magic based class that focuses on amplifying your melee attacks with magical power sounds really badass.

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Well that is like the basis of the fantasy monk and what makes it seem feasible. He can engage weapon users in melee combat effectively because he is usually chi or ki or qi magic enhanced in some way. Think iron fist from the marvel universe or the characters from dbz. They use energy to enhance their bodies and power up their attacks. The fantasy monk is really just a mage who likes punching things.

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Well that is like the basis of the fantasy monk and what makes it seem feasible. He can engage weapon users in melee combat effectively because he is usually chi or ki or qi magic enhanced in some way. Think iron fist from the marvel universe or the characters from dbz. They use energy to enhance their bodies and power up their attacks. The fantasy monk is really just a mage who likes punching things.

does this monk also perform kamehameha or aduket?  :D  if yes then we need a monk now.  ^_^


SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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